What if…

[Dufresne]

What if like a lot of other areas of human behavior, personality disorders are in reality, on a spectrum, and all of us fall somewhere along it? I can't be the first to share this thought.

I've always operated under the idea that if you're willing to consider that you're the PD, then the chances that you are are lower. Maybe not zero, but definitely lower. Just a thought. Happy Tuesday!

[bloomie]

Dufresne - great question and thoughts. There is no question, in my own experience, that we all have unhealthy responses to life, relationships, and views of life that need examining and cleaning up. And we come to places like Out of the FOG to take responsibility for ourselves and grow in wisdom and insights to handle the relationships we have with others who refuse to take responsibility for themselves and are harming us and/or those we love.

For me, the key difference is understanding that responsibility for my life is within myself.  For those who have been the most harmful in my life, that does not appear to be the same viewpoint. I think of it as a worldview that stems from character issues that there is no interest in examining and emotional immaturity that serves them that grows along a continuum to a malignant lifestyle that isolates, divides and is toxic.

We all have wake up calls along the way to our own character issues and immaturity, the baggage we carry and wounds that need healing that are informing in unhealthy ways our choices... it is what we do with the wake up calls and the consequences of our choices that is the key difference for me. 

[Cascade]

Yes, I've thought of narcissism as being on a spectrum, and probably the other PDs as well.

[NarcKiddo]

After I read "Understanding the Borderline Mother" (an excellent, but challenging read) I recognised all sorts of traits in myself and immediately diagnosed myself as a raging hermit narcissist. My therapist had fun talking me down from that one! In our discussions she specifically said that these things are on a spectrum. So even if I am on that spectrum rather than just having, say, fleas, I am a long way off being problematic in the way my FOO is. Plus self-awareness and doing the work of improvement can only help.

[Dufresne]

Appreciate the responses. I often wonder about the phenomenon of the false self - a primary feature of NPD. How powerful is this part of a person. Am I moving through the world with this part of myself without being able for some reason(s) to have some awareness of it?

I do know that one feature that I lack, which I understand is a constant in basically all narcissistic personality styles is the tendency towards interpersonal antagonism. To my knowledge, I don't try and provoke people as a matter of routine. Thanks again for the responses here. Again, I appreciate all the responses!

[Catothecat]

The behaviors may be on the spectrum, since all behaviors are.  The response to those behaviors seems to be what sets the PD apart.  Even if they seek help, the help they seem to want is how to order the world to their specifications and not how their involvement in their world is shaping that world. 

[United We Win]

I often wonder about the phenomenon of the false self - a primary feature of NPD. How powerful is this part of a person.

For me personally, buying into that "false self" narrative was extremely unhealthy (for me) initially, as I woke up to NPD abuse. I now follow PD educators who do not endorse the Freud stuff.

I'm not saying that the "false self" explanation is wrong... who am I to say?! But for me, it did not offer the validation that I needed in order to heal. I had to accept that I was conned by a sick (evil?) person who also is Very skilled at what he does. (And BTW he is doing it again with the next woman, also a big pay-off for him $$$.)

It was not helpful for me to think of his behavior in terms of "oh poor thing he had to hide his true self to survive because he was injured as a child."

This is my healing journey. It's different for everyone.

[Dufresne]

I think that's a fair question to ponder. Can they help it, or can't they? It's not like this is an illness in the same way diabetes is an illness. I appreciate your thoughts and taking the time to reply

[Prototypian]

I've never doubted that everyone has certain levels of PD:

I've observed traits that are ocpd in others.  I've read a book called working for narcissistic leaders that directly discussed executives in companies who were so far off the narcissistic scale there was probably a new level of the category set up.   

But I know we all have some scale of behaviors of traits.   

One thing I've read is that most PD individuals actually do not believe what they are doing is out of character or feel that what they are doing is wrong.   In many cases the PD individual sees their actions as the right thing.

Because of that I think that some people fall into careers and lives that fit their personality traits whether they are far on the spectrum or just have some behaviors that manifest.   I met a building inspector once at a renovation at my home where he pointed out that another smoke detector was necessary.   This was not a problem as the area was accessible and those thjngs don't cost very much and from my perspective I don't care.  I casually made the joke "ok but I was going to train a howler monkey to sit up there and smell for smoke".  I hope that everyone can see the sarcasm and joke.   This person began sputtering.   He was so upset he was shaking and stating that this was no time for jokes and he was coming back to make sure that I properly installed a smoke detector and that my life depended on this.  He wrote the red tag so fast that I was afraid the pen would start smoking and as he handed it to me he said that he can't believe that some people can't take lifesaving codes as serious.   I had to avoid laughing and avoid promising not to train howler monkeys to act as smoke detectors.  The level of reaction, indignation and humor impairment shocked me and I kept wondering if maybe the man had a bad experience earlier in the day but as I relayed this to friends in the same town they all had similar experiences.   I think the guy is actually an ocpd individual and for this role of ensuring compliance of set codes because of the importance of those codes he is probably the perfect role although his understanding of person to person  interactions is obviously warped as his ability to understand humor was somehow lost.

I KNOW I'm not a saint and not a clean individual from a behavioral trait.  I am however totally willing to adapt and take feedback on the impact of my behaviors on others.  I'm also able to spot my own self-sabotaging behavior.