Adult daughter dBPD

DonutsForFishFood65 · March 03, 2025, 01:11:17 PM

Hi, new here and I have a daughter in her 30's dx'd with borderline personality disorder when she was about 18yo. She is not in treatment and never has been. Due to her age when diagnosed, we didn't have any leverage to make her go and she chose not to. Her choice to make but no treatment at all has led to a lot of the typical BPD chaos that may not have otherwise happened. Maybe.

I'll skip to the most recent events that took place about five years ago. We've been estranged, completely NC, about that long. She asked my husband and me (and a couple other relatives) for significant financial help and loans following a marital separation and a dui. When the help came to a normal, agreed upon end she became vengeful and did a number of things, one of which she was arrested for (property damage felony). She also refused to repay loans to family despite by then having the money to at least repay the smaller loans, she trashed the motor of my car we allowed her to borrow (the property damage charge), and tried to use my SSN to secure a loan after I refused to cosign one for her. After all that she refused to allow us to continue seeing our grandkids because she said we were "too nice" to her ex at one of the kids' sports events.

For the last few years she's been sending me verbally abusive emails that I have not responded to. From attending therapy and doing research I've learned to not JADE nor engage in other behaviors with her that would undermine my own boundaries. As a result there's been no two way communication at all since 2020.

A few months ago she sent me an email wanting a "discussion." In the past this has meant talking about whatever the issues are, I/we get drawn back in to her life, and ultimately we end up discarded again. She's done the same with her current MIL and a family she's at times close to. She'll cut any of them off for months to years at a time and eventually recycles the relationships or tries to. Normally she wants to recycle with one group of people when she's about to discard one of the others, or she feels that they are going to discard her.

I've not responded to the email from a few months ago because I have nothing productive to say to her anymore. She refuses to go to any kind of therapy; she turns down every viable offer to help get her into therapy no matter the reason or the type of help. Basically, she just doesn't want to go and says she's happy with her life the way it is. I can accept that and honestly, going to therapy isn't worth it if the person isn't going to put the work in. Nonetheless, without help she's proven to be damaging to my mental health and has been a threat to my safety along with a threat to my mom's safety, one of her youngest siblings and his daughter, our granddaughter.

I feel somewhat guilty about not responding to her, by choice she's alienated everyone in our small family, but the last five years have been very peaceful. I also do not see in the verbiage of her email that she has good intentions. Like many with BPD she doesn't take responsibility for her actions and often blames others or just denies the situation ever happening at all.

I feel compelled to explain to her why I am opting to continue NC but I am afraid that would veer into JADEing and I don't want to go back to that. I don't trust my daughter enough to reconcile again because I know how this ends 100 times out of 100 it always ends with her devaluing and discarding. Without her getting help I don't see a way to let her back in. I also don't want anyone in my life, her nor anyone else, who is intent on causing drama and chaos. I love her but I can't deal with her behavior and no longer want to.

Do I respond or leave things as they are with NC?

notrightinthehead · March 04, 2025, 04:01:11 AM

Welcome! I am so sorry. Having a loved one with PD is never easy, but if it's your child it is even worse as we never stop wondering if it was our doing that made them so. The guilt in FOG is always present. Please head over to the Toolbox and study the strategies there. Also, do you know the book 'Stop Caretaking the Borderline/Narcissist' by Fjelstad? I found this very helpful.
Whether you decide to engage or not - we are here for you. The parent's discussion tab is a bit slow but people on here understand.

Rebel13 · March 04, 2025, 02:38:34 PM

Hi DonutsForFishFood, I'm not a parent, but just going by what you write here, it seems pretty clear to me what you want to do, which is not respond. Am I reading that correctly in your message? It sounds like you have done everything possible and you don't feel that engaging again will result in a different outcome or work towards healing the relationship. If that's the case, and you need support in doing what feels right to you, you have mine!

Best wishes and I'm so sorry you have to struggle with this.

bloomie · March 05, 2025, 11:18:51 AM

DonutsForFishFood65 - adding a warm welcome to you. What a long and heartbreaking journey you and your family has been on with your daughter. I am so sorry!

There is a saying that is: "the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior". I didn't see any claim by your daughter that she has gotten help and sees the harm and damage she has done. Even if there had been a claim like that, for me anyway, I would need time and distance of humble, contrite, specific behavioral and communication patterns to even open myself up to a 'discussion'. But, that's me. These days I am a protect my peace kind of person.

I guess what I am wondering if it would be helpful to ask yourself what story are you telling yourself such that you feel compelled to explain why you are opting for continued NC? Is it true? Is it false guilt? It is hope? It is grief?

Your daughter was there when all of the damage, violence, betrayal and abusive communications were done. She knows she attempted fraud and absconded with everyone's money. She sent mean spirited emails to you... her mother.

Sometimes we need to say something, one time, for our own peace of mind. And sometimes more words, after years and years of words, simply make things worse.

Only you know and we are here for you as you decide.

Come back as you are able and let us know how you are!

lillylover · March 21, 2025, 04:05:16 PM

Hello DonutsForFishFood65,
I am so sorry that your daughter has BPD. My feeling is that if you did try to explain that yes as you suggested you would end up Jading. My feeling also is that she won't be able to hear anything that isn't in agreement with what is in her own head.

None of this is her fault which you seem to fully understand. It's the way her brain is. I believe that your daughter suffers a great deal from misery. And she holds everyone in her life accountable for that. IF only others would be different then I (she) .....is how I believe her mind works.

This leaves you in a terrible predicament. Because it's easy to see how much you love her. Yet she is unable to embrace your love. Is she even able to love? That is tricky because her kind of love comes with strings attached. Strings that most cannot fulfill.

There is forum specifically for loved ones of those with BPD. It's excellent. You might try going there and reading etc. It's a very busy site with a lot of tools. Here is a link for parents dealing with children of all ages with BPD. If it takes you to the general board you can find your way where you need to be.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=4.0

Best of luck to you.

walking on broken glass · April 11, 2025, 04:16:55 AM

Just to say that I didn't have a very good experience with the bpd family site, when I posted the story about my mum. I received two responses and one person basically told me that my mum needs me and that I shouldn't take her behaviour personally; that when she raged against me and accused me of all sorts of crazy things, it was trauma talking triggered by grief and stress, and if she is now back to normal I should try to forget it and move on. I already struggle with guilt a lot and the response was very triggering for me. I found it showed more empathy towards my mum instead of me. But maybe other people have different experiences.

DonutsForFishFood65 · April 28, 2025, 11:03:37 AM

Hi,

My OP was awhile ago but I've come back to respond. Sorry for the delay.

I will check out the book recommendation and the tools available on the site, thank you!

To the person who pointed out that nowhere in my daughter's email did she indicate that she had sought out help since I went NC - there definitely has been no indication that she's gone to therapy whatsoever. She has told me in another email that she's been in and out of court with her ex husband over custody issues because they've both made multiple false reports about each other to child protective services. She told me that because at least back then she was blaming the situation on me.

There has also been other "yelling" at me via email about how she got fired (again) for defrauding people when she was working as a financial manager for a car dealership. She was also quite angry to learn her former boss at the same job cooperated with police by providing video evidence of her and a former coworker vandalizing the motor of my car in one of their shop facilities. She's also convinced herself I helped her kids' newish stepmom with "evidence against" her
during one of those court issues about the kids. I've met the stepmom once during early 2020 and we barely exchanged 5-10 words and I haven't spoken to my former son in law in the same amount of time. Someone else
may have told him or his wife something about my daughter or her ex may have said it was me but my daughter tends to run paranoid so I think it's likely just that.

One of my other kids has had a chat or two with her and he doesn't think she's getting any sort of help and definitely doesn't want it - she maintained to him we're all "crazy" and she'd get help when we do. What's ironic is my other kids, my husband/her stepdad for the last three decades, and I have all been to individual therapy to deal with our own stuff. None of us are perfect but we are definitely not averse to therapy. When my son told her he goes to therapy here and there, all my daughter told him was a bunch of nasty, devaluing remarks that no one deserves from their sister nor anyone else.

I know the BPD isn't her fault but she's not a dumb young woman, in my mind there's no way she can be blind to the fact that some of her behavior is so bad that it's illegal. It would be very hard to not be angry at her for the hurtful things she's done. With no apparent willingness and then action to get help, I believe I would just be signing up for more abuse if I were to break NC.

It's very difficult feeling as though my hands are tied with her. There doesn't seem to be a good course of action that would involve us being in contact.

DonutsForFishFood65 · April 28, 2025, 01:03:48 PM

Quote from: bloomie on March 05, 2025, 11:18:51 AMDonutsForFishFood65 - adding a warm welcome to you. What a long and heartbreaking journey you and your family has been on with your daughter. I am so sorry!

There is a saying that is: "the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior". I didn't see any claim by your daughter that she has gotten help and sees the harm and damage she has done. Even if there had been a claim like that, for me anyway, I would need time and distance of humble, contrite, specific behavioral and communication patterns to even open myself up to a 'discussion'. But, that's me. These days I am a protect my peace kind of person.

I guess what I am wondering if it would be helpful to ask yourself what story are you telling yourself such that you feel compelled to explain why you are opting for continued NC? Is it true? Is it false guilt? It is hope? It is grief?

Your daughter was there when all of the damage, violence, betrayal and abusive communications were done. She knows she attempted fraud and absconded with everyone's money. She sent mean spirited emails to you... her mother.

Sometimes we need to say something, one time, for our own peace of mind. And sometimes more words, after years and years of words, simply make things worse.

Only you know and we are here for you as you decide.

Come back as you are able and let us know how you are!

As far as continued NC is concerned, the story I'm telling myself about continued NC is I no longer see the point of, nor do I any longer manufacture reasons (excuses) to keep volunteering for abuse. When she was a teenager I had to, when she was a young adult I felt she was immature and needed extra support, once she had kids I couldn't take the idea of being apart from them, now she's in her 30's and all the stuff she's done to us and others has come to light and I can't do this with her anymore. I've also realized my codependency issues and that wasn't helping her or me.

Her bio dad and I divorced when she was about 3yo and I feel like I've been fighting a losing battle since then. Her dad has been dead awhile now but looking back his behavior had BPD traits (not sure if he was ever diagnosed with anything including BPD) and he spoke very poorly of me to her during his weekend, etc visits. The divorce was my idea and he remained angry for years following all that. He would call me awful names to her and it worked, back then I knew nothing about BPD, possible parental alienation, nor controlling my own reactions to him better than I did. I would get very frustrated with and angry at him and did not realize I was playing right into his hand. If I only knew about grey rocking back then.

I also didn't know much if anything about personality disorders and mental health back in those days but I did know what he was doing was wrong and clearly impacting our daughter. Back then we lived in a small rural area with limited mental health resources but starting when she was about 8-9yo I took her to every therapist who was deemed qualified. Once she purposely fell asleep during the appointment because she was "done" and then woke up laughing at the therapist and me, another therapist she refused to speak anything but gibberish to until the therapist and I both gave up. The other ones I tried, the therapy unsurprisingly never got anywhere. Later I learned my ex husband was grilling her about the therapy during his weekends and encouraging her to act poorly during the appointments.

All of this went on for years with no improvement. My daughter and her dad were an impenetrable team and it's clear she far preferred him over me and I accepted it after awhile. No sense in fighting what can't be changed. Her sentiment about this, dad > mom remains unchanged and he's been dead several years.

Very long story short, after dealing with all this (before NC starting 2020), I don't see a path forward with her that includes contact. A "discussion" with her gets as far as her accusing me of doing something to her she actually did to me or her just making something up, I explain that's not what happened or it didn't happen and she backs me into a corner with her angry reaction. The times I've tried to validate her feelings she just goes off about how stupid she thinks I am.

No contact is the only thing that has brought any kind of peace to my life in over 30 years.

notrightinthehead · April 30, 2025, 01:47:00 AM

Then NC is what you have to do. Sometimes that is the only way we can go forward. We have to do the grieving work, we have to go through the stages of loss and move on.

GoodPesto · April 30, 2025, 02:49:36 AM

Hi DFFF,

as a daughter of parents who split up and ending up in the middle of their fighting, my heart goes out to the three year old child that is being used to make your life difficult because you dared to separate. I am aware it's also hard on many men when they don't have the opportunity to see their kids grow up as part of their everyday life, but gosh, this poor girl being set up against her care-taking mom ... It is soul tearing for a child and could of course lead to difficulties with regards to the development of a healthy personality. On top of all this, the professional support she most likely would have needed to reduce the impact or that could have served as a counterpoint to her emotionally broken home is being sabotaged, too. It hurts to see her father could not see or did not care about the excrutiating pain he inflicted upon this little girl.
I am sorry you lost your kid this way and I can only imagine the pain you endured over the years. That she sided with your ex-husband to me does not seem like a self-determinded choice but a strategy to survive the psychological terror of her childhood.
Sending you lots of the best.

DonutsForFishFood65 · April 30, 2025, 09:22:51 AM

Quote from: GoodPesto on April 30, 2025, 02:49:36 AMHi DFFF,

as a daughter of parents who split up and ending up in the middle of their fighting, my heart goes out to the three year old child that is being used to make your life difficult because you dared to separate. I am aware it's also hard on many men when they don't have the opportunity to see their kids grow up as part of their everyday life, but gosh, this poor girl being set up against her care-taking mom ... It is soul tearing for a child and could of course lead to difficulties with regards to the development of a healthy personality. On top of all this, the professional support she most likely would have needed to reduce the impact or that could have served as a counterpoint to her emotionally broken home is being sabotaged, too. It hurts to see her father could not see or did not care about the excrutiating pain he inflicted upon this little girl.
I am sorry you lost your kid this way and I can only imagine the pain you endured over the years. That she sided with your ex-husband to me does not seem like a self-determinded choice but a strategy to survive the psychological terror of her childhood.
Sending you lots of the best.

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it a lot.

DonutsForFishFood65 · April 30, 2025, 10:32:39 AM

Quote from: notrightinthehead on April 30, 2025, 01:47:00 AMThen NC is what you have to do. Sometimes that is the only way we can go forward. We have to do the grieving work, we have to go through the stages of loss and move on.

Thank you for your response.

I know what you've said here is true and is what I need to keep doing. I'm in therapy and doing a lot better these days but I haven't yet been able to move past some guilt related to not responding to her and being NC with her all this time. I find myself buying into and internalizing those comments I see on similar posts elsewhere where someone comes along and says something like "what kind of mother would ..." Well, this mom wouldn't if there was some other viable choice that made sense and was healthy for both my daughter and me.

I also have wondered if I'm overthinking it and maybe she doesn't care at all about the NC and I'm just doing this to myself, causing my own anguish. I've long grown accustomed to the idea that I don't think she likes me anyway. While that sounds like an awful prospect for a parent on the face of things, it's not an unlikely outcome after the parental alienation she was put through by my ex and my failed attempts at dealing with that and finding enough help for her. If I were to respond to her emails I worry she would become angry and disregulated and angry and that will impact my grandkids and whatever else goes on in her household. These interactions have always ended in a heap of verbal abuse directed at me and that won't solve anything.

The flip side is I just feel guilty by remaining NC knowing that re-engaging never ends well.

notrightinthehead · May 02, 2025, 12:52:32 AM

My experience with feelings, especially unpleasant ones like shame, guilt, fear, anger, hopelessness, and despair has been that I deal with them best by allowing them to wash through me. By practising mindfullness I learned to not fight them, not argue with them, not rationalize them, but instead accept them like a bad smell I can do nothing about, feel them and let them fade away.