Do I just not want to be happy?

[Dinah-sore]

About a year and a half ago my BPD/NPD mom told me I need to get over stuff with NPDh. She said I just "don't want to be happy." -like I am sabotaging myself. And idk why I listen, maybe just programming, but I gave NPDh another chance. Like the millionth.

It wasn't great. It wasn't too bad. He can be "ok" for months. But never amazing. No love bombing, no connection; he talks about himself, and tries to make advances on me.

About 4 months ago my kids chose to leave the church he works at, because people were holding them to impossible standards, and my kids weren't "good enough." So they gave up. They left. They were actually hurt really bad by some people who were judging and talking about them and trying to control them. They also weren't doing anything "wrong"but just not good enough. They were being told what not to wear, what not to say, what not to post on social media, and all of it was more strict than it used to be. It was bad.

My husband took the side of the church. He never asked the kids how they are doing, never comforted them, parented them, nothing. It all fell to me, and their therapy appointments, but one night when my daughter was sick and emotional she was crying, and telling him how much it hurts her to see him take the side of the people who hurt her. She said you are just like them, he laughed and said "good, I want to be, they are good people." And she cried so hard, and said you don't even care, and he laughed and said "I couldn't care less."

That night did something to her. Those words hurt her so bad.

He never apologized or worked it out, nothing; he is just being nice now and acting like nothing happened.

My daughters mental health is reeling, she is now making risky life choices out of character, partying, dating random people, smoking, if NPDH knew all of it he would just use against her to "prove" the people at church were "right" about her. I see her actions as a huge middle finger to people who controlled her and rejected her. But I am so worried she will make a choice that hurts her life. But I can't be one of her judges so I think I need to stay a safe place for her, and keep trust and communication and support her emotionally even when she makes choices that scare me.

I feel so much anger towards him. Like I feel like I will never get over this. He is hurting her soul. IMHO.

If anyone has insight on how I can help her, please share. I feel like I hate him, like I don't want her to ever trust him again. Like he is her enemy and therefore mine.

I am lost. I went to a new church yesterday. He doesn't know. He had told me I can't go to another church or it will affect his job, it is also a liberal church that won't reject my kids because they will be nice to everybody. And that felt like something I needed. But he will be so angry if he finds out. But I haven't attended church since 2018, because the church he works at is so mean, even I didn't want to go. I still listened to other churches online. But I went to church the first time yesterday in years and now I am afraid I did something bad.

I feel very lost and almost like I am the one ruining my kids, I wonder what if NPDh is right and I am the one who is hurting the kids. Maybe I am too nice, too "permissive." They have been through a lot, chronic illness, bullying at church, their dad's temper, etc.

If I could financially leave, I would be gone tomorrow.

If anyone has any thoughts, advice, wisdom, or even empathy, I could use it, I have no support in real life. I can't tell anyone these things.

Also if anyone prays, can you pray for my kids? They are so vulnerable right now, I want them to become whole and healthy versions of themselves. To get therapy and take steps toward a good future. But they are stuck and I am afraid he will keep hurting them emotionally. Also for my emotions. I feel hate, and that makes me feel so guilty.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I know you all are suffering too. Thank you for this community.

[Dinah-sore]

Also, my mom just told me she called the church I went to yesterday and talked to the pastor about an event I told her I might want to go to this weekend. She talked to him as if she was going to go. Which is lying because she barely ever leaves the house. Maybe five times a year.

I think I am going to throw up. I am so upset. Am I crazy? Why do I feel like she is trying to center herself in this new place I went to once. Omg, I haven't even met anyone myself and she is talking to them on the phone. Maybe I am the narcissist but now I don't even want to go back, like it feels like she ruined it for me, or marked her territory, it feels like a huge boundary crossed. Omg. I can't imagine doing that to my daughter.

Also she would never go to a church like this because she doesn't share the beliefs, but she has been acting like she agrees with all my opinions the last few months. And she is almost living her life as if she is exactly like me. I don't know if it is the BPD trying to feel close to me. But I am like having physical symptoms. Like a panic attack.

I am so sorry to post this here, it just happened and I didn't want to make a separate post when it is related.

Am I crazy to think this is insane?! It feels like reverse stalking? Like following someone from in front of them, like on TV.

[square]

I'm interested to know if your husband just "doesn't want to be happy" with you.

And I also want to know if your mother is just "choosing to be unhappy" with you.

I mean, if she wanted to be happy, she'd be a safe mom for you. If your husband wanted to be happy, he'd be a safe husband and father.

I'm heartbroken about what your daughter experienced, I can feel the pain in my stomach reading that. You can't fix that, but it means a lot for you to validate her experience.

I know you have financial and logistical difficulties. I just want to let you know that I somehow got an apartment on just SSDI. I did not see how I could make it work, and it might still fall apart in the future, who knows, but between SSDI and SNAP, I've been making it work for over a year. When I left, it was a leap of faith. I just wanted to tell you that since I know the fear is bad and the unknowns are pretty serious, but here's someone who got to the other side somehow. Don't freeze just because you're not sure.

[Rebel13]

Hi Dinah-sore,

I'm really sorry you are having a rough time.

Also, my mom just told me she called the church I went to yesterday and talked to the pastor about an event I told her I might want to go to this weekend.

Sounds like maybe your mom needs to be on an information diet? If she doesn't know your plans, she can't interfere, right?

I have set the "Medium Chill" article from the Toolbox section as my browser home page so I see it every time I log in to my computer. Those strategies are so helpful for me when dealing with intrusive, meddling people.

Another thing I'm realizing recently is that I give so much more power to people than I need to. I think this must be a trauma/CPTSD thing. For example, I often get anxious about a certain thing that sometimes happens at a group that I go to a lot. There's a whole crowd in my mind fussing about, what happens if...?!? Why are they doing that thing? Why can't they pay more attention? Last night I realized, if the thing rises to the level of really impinging on me, I can just ASK the person to stop doing it. Most people are really kind and apologetic if they feel they've offended. (And if they're not, that's more about them than me.) I realize that my mom was NOT like that and that asking her not to do something was an invitation for her to do it more, or to interrogate me endlessly about why it was a problem, what was wrong with me that I couldn't just put up with something I didn't like, etc. etc. Even though I'm a fully grown adult and don't talk to her anymore, I still have this unnecessary stress about the most minor of social interactions because some part of me expects people to react like she did.

Sorry, that was a long way around to say, if you go to your new church, and someone says something about your mother, you can just roll your eyes and say, oh yeah, my mom, what a character. You know? Probably no one will even make the connection and if they bring it up, it will only be in the interest of making conversation with you. You can let your mom's stuff be her stuff.

I'm sorry too about the difficulties with you, your husband, and your daughter. It is ridiculous to say to someone that "you don't want to be happy." That's a backhanded way of saying, I don't like that you don't like what I'm doing, and you should stop complaining. But the truth is, there are some situations in which it's very hard to get to the moments of happiness we all deserve. I agree with square that I hope you can figure out a way to get some space, safety and peace for you and your children.

[Dinah-sore]

I'm interested to know if your husband just "doesn't want to be happy" with you.

And I also want to know if your mother is just "choosing to be unhappy" with you.

I mean, if she wanted to be happy, she'd be a safe mom for you. If your husband wanted to be happy, he'd be a safe husband and father.

I'm heartbroken about what your daughter experienced, I can feel the pain in my stomach reading that. You can't fix that, but it means a lot for you to validate her experience.

I know you have financial and logistical difficulties. I just want to let you know that I somehow got an apartment on just SSDI. I did not see how I could make it work, and it might still fall apart in the future, who knows, but between SSDI and SNAP, I've been making it work for over a year. When I left, it was a leap of faith. I just wanted to tell you that since I know the fear is bad and the unknowns are pretty serious, but here's someone who got to the other side somehow. Don't freeze just because you're not sure.

Hi Square, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. You make a good point about turning that phrase back onto them. Yes! Thank you.

Also, I am soooooooo so so happy that you were able to get your own place. thank you for sharing that it is possible. I will need to look into that. I hope you are feeling peace in your space. And deeper healing being free. Thank you.

[Dinah-sore]

Hi Dinah-sore,

I'm really sorry you are having a rough time.

Also, my mom just told me she called the church I went to yesterday and talked to the pastor about an event I told her I might want to go to this weekend.

Sounds like maybe your mom needs to be on an information diet? If she doesn't know your plans, she can't interfere, right?

I have set the "Medium Chill" article from the Toolbox section as my browser home page so I see it every time I log in to my computer. Those strategies are so helpful for me when dealing with intrusive, meddling people.

Another thing I'm realizing recently is that I give so much more power to people than I need to. I think this must be a trauma/CPTSD thing. For example, I often get anxious about a certain thing that sometimes happens at a group that I go to a lot. There's a whole crowd in my mind fussing about, what happens if...?!? Why are they doing that thing? Why can't they pay more attention? Last night I realized, if the thing rises to the level of really impinging on me, I can just ASK the person to stop doing it. Most people are really kind and apologetic if they feel they've offended. (And if they're not, that's more about them than me.) I realize that my mom was NOT like that and that asking her not to do something was an invitation for her to do it more, or to interrogate me endlessly about why it was a problem, what was wrong with me that I couldn't just put up with something I didn't like, etc. etc. Even though I'm a fully grown adult and don't talk to her anymore, I still have this unnecessary stress about the most minor of social interactions because some part of me expects people to react like she did.

Sorry, that was a long way around to say, if you go to your new church, and someone says something about your mother, you can just roll your eyes and say, oh yeah, my mom, what a character. You know? Probably no one will even make the connection and if they bring it up, it will only be in the interest of making conversation with you. You can let your mom's stuff be her stuff.

I'm sorry too about the difficulties with you, your husband, and your daughter. It is ridiculous to say to someone that "you don't want to be happy." That's a backhanded way of saying, I don't like that you don't like what I'm doing, and you should stop complaining. But the truth is, there are some situations in which it's very hard to get to the moments of happiness we all deserve. I agree with square that I hope you can figure out a way to get some space, safety and peace for you and your children.

You are right, to other people they won't know too much. I just truly never expected her to do that. She still surprises me. You are right I need more medium chill.

I think I got comfortable. She started saying she agrees with me now about things I care about, and I guess I got a false sense of security.

It feels nice to have someone to talk to about things. But sometimes I wonder if she is just pretending to agree with me to get information about what I think and feel. I don't know how I keep falling into the same patterns, after all this time, with both npdH and BPD/npdm. I am building some new friendships that my mom can't get in the middle of. It is like she tries to live my life, is that enmeshment? Or engulfment? Lol. I will go look into the info, and thank you so much for reminding me of medium chill. I get so desperate for connection that I settle for dangerous connections. Thank you!!!

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you and your children.  I think it's okay and wise for a child not to trust a father who is not emotionally trustworthy.  I just wanted to say I will be praying for you and your children. 

[Rebel13]

I get so desperate for connection that I settle for dangerous connections. Thank you!!!

Oh I completely understand! That part of us that wants a good, close relationship with our parent maybe never goes away. It's hard to fully accept that they just aren't capable of it, or not in the way that we need and want.

[BreatheDeep]

I'm so sorry for all that you're going through, Dinah-sore.

I get so desperate for connection that I settle for dangerous connections.

I felt this in my bones.

Rebel13 posted something really eye-opening to me the other day, maybe it'll surprise you too! I don't have the link handy but I'll bet you can find it by the title: Why Loving Moments With Strangers Carry Lasting Benefits.

It talks about research showing that the brief interactions we have with folks throughout the day ("everyday micro-moments of positive connection") can be very beneficial, and details how to make the best of them.

My take-away after reading the article is that I don't necessarily have to cook a big spread and have people over for dinner once a week to build connections; I can share ready-to-eat snacks with people I hardly know, whenever the opportunity arises - and we can both come away feeling satisfied and fulfilled! Low effort with potentially high rewards. How sweet is that?!

Wishing you peace and continuing progress, Dinah-sore.

[1footouttadefog]

This is so sad. I am sorry that you and your kids are still suffering after all this time. 

If you are merely staying with their father for reasons of finance and being trapped, perhaps let the kids know this.  Be super real with them.  Find ways to take your life back.  Empower the kids towards in ways you can. 

I hope they will attend a new and uplifting church with you. And that you can all be supporting each other with some common activities and values.

You mom needs an information diet, agreed!