My life with a phobic anxiety ridden partner!

[Juju]

I'm feeling resentful again as my partner who will not do anything different is getting me down. I have noticed his daughter is exactly the same ... she had a baby late in life and the baby has just learned how to walk (he is 23 months) because she never put him down has never had him around other children or anyone for that matter, my partner seems to only have a video call relationship with her and his grandson, she is a germ a phob as well.  I woud believe she got all these behaviours from the way she was raised.  My partner didn't do anything (like take his kids camping beach any kind of holiday) because of his phobias.  It still annoys me although I've accepted a lot I still would like to do things and find it hard to always have to rely on other people to get out!  Thank god I have my own family (they have wondered how anyone can be so phobic about every little thing as well).  We broke up once because I was fed up with his lifestyle but got back together because I missed all the good things about him but the phobia side is really hard to live with! I feel like I have to make it work this time and before when I was on my own for a year I hated it.  Does anyone think there may be any hope for this man to get a little bit out of his bubble and if so what does he need to do??

[walking on broken glass]

Hi Juju!
I am really sorry, this must be hard. I think you are asking the wrong question here, because no one can guarantee what someone else can or cannot do. You cannot control or change other people. Only your partner himself can do that, and from what you are saying, he doesn't seem willing to address his problem. You even broke up because of this and the loss didn't inspire him to make any changes. You got back together because you missed him, not because he decided to deal with his germ phobia.

I was dating someone in the past who had similar problems and he kept promising me that he will go to therapy. He never did. Because the need to change was not something that came from him; I was pushing him to it and he most definitely did not want to make the effort. Changing something that deeply ingrained to you, that's almost become part of your character, requires incredible strength and work that most people are not willing to do. We ended up breaking up.

So I don't think you should stay in the relationship in the hope that he might change. It's only going to provoke resentment in you and you won't be happy.

[notrightinthehead]

 

you cannot make another person change, you only can change yourself.

[Juju]

I knew everyone would say this, I just needed to vent and was feeling sorry for myself. I knew what I was getting back into (being with him) I suppose I could never accept this in myself and don't understand how someone else can.  The thing that bugs me is he has never been professionally diagnosed with any disorder and will not even take a baby step. But yes I know it has to come from him ..... 

[Prototypian]

Dang I understand you!   And professional diagnosis is so out of reach.   I just live with the logo uOCPDw of undiagnosed OCPD wife because the assumption of the PD is that they are not only right, they are morally right to be concerned about the worst case scenario in everything.   If it's anxiety there could be hope because the anxiety is fear rather than justification in a set of ordered rules.   He as a person would know he has anxiety.  If it's a personality disorder it's typically built into a powerful sense of self validation to point out and enforce the protective measures on others.   You may find that in his mind there isn't a choice: if there is potential risk then there is no justification for an action and he could become frustrated or angry if someone chooses that action.  The tough part is that the personality disordered individual doesn't see that there are two sides; there is only right and wrong and those who are wrong should not be tolerated.  This can also lead to huge inactivity and procrastination if there is potential for something to be wrong but the personality disordered individual can't tell what the rules are.   Choosing a parking spot when there are multiple and they all appear similar or selecting an activity from a list of choices. 

I truly empathize with you.   It's very difficult.   

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I remember feeling much like you about my husband, (though for different things).  For years I was perpetually frustrated and disappointed!  It seemed so obvious that he needed to change and the couple's T's must have agreed because they encouraged him to try this and that to make these changes.  It never happened.  I finally left.

My next marriage-like partnership was different.  HE wanted ME to change.  In major ways that seemed unhealthy to me and that I had no interest in doing.  Back to couple's T, but the T's didn't advise me to get with his plan which they didn't seem to think was very healthy either.  I made it clear to him I was not going to make those changes.  But he still thought I should and was unhappy that I wasn't.

I got to experience what it feels like to be partnered long-term with someone who never stops wanting you to change, never stops thinking you are wrong for being like you are (though they may not voice it all the time - still you feel it). Someone who is choosing to live with you but is never truly accepting of or satisfied with you and continually thinks a major part of how you are as a person in the world is wrong.   It was a very valuable lesson for me.

Of course, any LT relationship is going to have areas people have to work on together,  and some of those areas will be ongoing because they're not easily settled, and some of it will be repeatedly frustrating.  But if I'm ever partnered again, which I'd like because I also don't like living alone, I hope not to be in either or those situations again.  (Who knows, though?  I've done a lot of repeating the past in my life.  )

[MaxedOut]

I feel you JuJu. I was aware of the oh-so-many phobia driven aspects of life while with my xupbpdw but am still wrapping my head around how all encompassing everything was now that it is just me in the same house we shared.

Even after purging countless things, every room has so many "ways things are" from phobias that I am working through undoing/assessing. Some stuff was early and obvious, like removing opaque blocking taped to windows or opening drapes some. Others are like "oh yeah, this room has a ceiling fan to keep things cool and a wall furnace, we just never used them because the fan 'might fall' and 'gas can explode-never turn that on.'" Or cooking tools I had to throw away.

And yes, so much isolating and not doing certain things if we did go out. It has been great being flexible about plans with others, taking little trips, reconnecting with people and not just via a very specific activities/timing/warning.

I would suggest the better question than hope for him expanding his bubble is how might you expand yours? It was hard to initiate but super helpful for me to establish doing some things important to me. She could join if she wanted but me doing things that we're important and maintaining connections that were important was not dependent on her being ok with doing a thing or feeling ok to do it that specific day and time.

We also made plans together and it was totally ok to bail on them due to anxiety before leaving, after getting in the car, halfway through, etc. So if there are things your partner wants to do, knowing he can exit can help. My SO was comfortable with a few people coming over for things like game nights (like 2-3 guests, order food in) which kept social connections even when she wasn't able to leave the house much. Just don't rely on these for your needs.

[Prototypian]

I've learned that the gap.between what one would call am anxiety or depression disorder and a personality disorder is pretty stark.   In my experience there isn't a gray area.   When a friend had depression and another had anxiety and panic attacks they respectively hated feeling like.that.  They each wanted to not feel that way.   

If someone has a PD they typically believe their behavior,fears, anger,manipulation or other traits are correct.  In fact these behaviors can be like a source of pride and even a mission for the PD.  If your partner has a substantial.personlaoty disorder then the behavior could be something that they are not only proud of but they feel it is the correct and only way someone should behave.

Not saying this to crush hopes and dreams. It's just been my experience.   They other person in this case literally doesn't want to get better because in their frame of reference their behavior is the only moral path to take.

[Rebel13]

If someone has a PD they typically believe their behavior, fears, anger, manipulation or other traits are correct.  In fact these behaviors can be like a source of pride and even a mission for the PD. 

Jsinjin, what do you think of this: In my experience (narcissistic mom) the pride and sense of moral superiority were definitely there, but as I get older and reflect more and have more therapy ( ) I suspect those expressed reasons really ARE a cover for anxiety and a kind of fending-off of criticism, danger, or "getting in trouble" from others (thinking of what you've shared about your wife's concern about following all parking regulations etc.). It does seem like the anxiety and fear gets buried so deeply for PD people under their beliefs about being good and/or doing the right thing, that recovery isn't really possible for them. The longer they go, the more layers they put over their own feelings of vulnerability.

I think it was Lindsay Gibson who talked about people making a choice about how they're going to handle emotions and vulnerability, and she differentiated between "internalizers" (i.e., "everything is my fault") and "externalizers" (i.e., "everything is someone else's fault"). It was very clear from her discussion that internalizers can improve because they are willing to look at themselves (even if they overdo it initially) but that externalizers usually can't because they have too much invested in not being at fault.

It seemed to me that might be a useful model for at least some people's internal process, even if it doesn't change how we need to handle ourselves around them, for our own safety.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

There's so much here in what everyone has to say!  MO, I really like the workarounds you found to make life tolerable for you & to be able to meet your own needs. JJ, I've heard you share about that, too. 

I think that's the freedom I've found in life's lessons:  I used to think my happiness was dependent on someone else's behavior changing & it was so frustrating.  None of my attempts (or anyone else's) ever did the trick.  It made me feel trapped & helpless & full of blame & resentment.  Because even if people aren't PDs & there's a perfectly effective treatment available for them to change, sometimes they just don't want to do it.  Maybe it seems too scary or hard,  or they may not even know why.

R13, I've heard these same things you have about NPD covering up deep shame & fragility.  The difference I've seen in LO between, say, OCD & OCPD, is insight.  The PD has no insight that there is something disordered in them and externalizes all the blame - if only others would fall in line it would be okay.  The OCPD LO certainly didn't look for help, but I've also seen a LO with OCD choose not to get help even though they had in the past and it worked.

My hat is off to anyone living with this kind of thing.  When I was a kid, I didn't have any choice.  But I became so sensitized to it and my tolerance for it is so low now, I'd rather live in a tent alone somewhere than be around it. I'm glad to hear of the blessings in your new life, MO  Good luck to us all! 

[walking on broken glass]

If someone has a PD they typically believe their behavior,fears, anger,manipulation or other traits are correct.  In fact these behaviors can be like a source of pride and even a mission for the PD.  If your partner has a substantial.personlaoty disorder then the behavior could be something that they are not only proud of but they feel it is the correct and only way someone should behave.

That's very succinct! I fully agree with Rebel's explanation too.

[Rebel13]

my tolerance for it is so low now, I'd rather live in a tent alone somewhere than be around it.

Me too, Lookin, me too.