People Standing in the Doorway of my Life

[bloomie]

I am not sure where to put this, but since it is a coping issue I am going to put it here in WOU. I could use some insights on this one.

There are a few people - a dear niece, a sibling, and a few people that I have been friends with for decades who I am coming to terms with tend to treat me like a dirty secret. And it doesn't feel good at all.

Behind the 'scenes' they seem connected and interested in my life and are in fairly regular contact, but when there is an audience where their connection with me would be exposed to people they are close to who may not approve, they are ghosts.

Always contacting me privately or seeing me one on one because PD family members who have powerful sway over both my sib and niece are unhappy or have cut off from me, or in the case of the friends, I stepped away from a certain unhealthy faith family and am now shunned by many in that group. 

There is a saying that expresses it perfectly that I am sure most of us have heard: "You want to come into my life, the door is open. You want to get out of my life, the door is open. Just one request.... Don't stand at the door, you are blocking the traffic." (tried to determine who to cite this to and everything I can find says author unknown)

I have stepped back from all of this to the best of my ability and in reality it is impossible to avoid all of it as we all know due to family ties and events and how all of the circles of people who are in our lives intersect at times.

I really wish I could simply ask them to come on in and have a full relationship or please leave and have none because, as a child who grew up with neglect and uncertainty of where I stood all of the time, mixed messages and someone treating me very differently in public as opposed to privately is very confusing and it hurts.

I don't even know what I am asking here really, just reaching out for some help with this.



 

[Hepatica]

I am sorry Bloomie. I think I understand what you are saying. You have taken a stand for what you need and a few people, your niece, sibling, and friends understand and support you in private, but publicly choose the other side. That may not be how they feel, but they have to make it look that way.

How would this make me feel? I'd feel sad, lonely and even perhaps betrayed.

I don't know your story but regarding what you describe as an unhealthy faith family, from this I think you mean you stepped away and the others have not taken that stand at all , or as directly as you. So in this and perhaps the other situation, are they are scared to appear loyal to you because someone else more powerful will judge and potentially punish them?

I stepped away from an unhealthy faith family years ago, merely by asking a question that outed me as not being on the same page as they, and soon I was covertly shunned. It has been extremely painful. The only thing that has helped is having two friends who experienced a similar thing when they made a hard choice regarding this as well. At least I have someone to talk about it with, because holding it all in on my own would be even harder. It really really hurts that you can't think a different way without being punished.

I hope I am getting this right, or am somewhat close. The only thing I can suggest is to reach out to others who might have gone thru similar and find support there. It does help when I talk with my friends who understand this. It takes the edge off and helps remove the sting of feeling so alone.

The others who in public don't acknowledge you are scared that if they do stand with you, they will be next in line for punishment. This is a toxic system, held together by fear at the most basic level, abandonment. Abandonment is a core fear for all of us.

It shows how cruel the system is and it has nothing to do with you. It comes from insecure systems and  insecure people who cannot deal with anyone who might show the cracks in the system they want to control.

Surround yourself with people who love you. You are not a dirty secret. If anything, they are and they want to keep their secrets, secret. Nobody should make you feel bad. Focus your energy in healing. Find support. Feelings of abandonment are really tough to work through on your own.

ETA: Only if this applies. Please disregard if not, but I have found the Religious Trauma Institute very helpful. I followed them on FB. (Have since closed FB, but they do have a website, I think.)

[bloomie]

Hepatica - thank you so much! Yes, in both cases -- with family members and former faith family -- you are spot on and I am really sorry you have been through something similar.

You are right, it is very painful and isolating. My instincts, which I believe are healthier than they have ever been, are to disengage from both circumstances and that is what I am choosing to do.

I am not powerless. I know that full well and somehow this triggers that abandonment and trauma response to freeze or to fawn and put up with this and those responses no longer serve me well. I can choose to step back completely and I can share with a couple of trusted friends who get it! Thank you for that very good suggestion!

It shows how cruel the system is and it has nothing to do with you. It comes from insecure systems and insecure people who cannot deal with anyone who might show the cracks in the system they want to control.

Boy is this true and you say it so well! Thank you for this! I have added it to my journal and will return to it in those tougher moments. 😞 It's just very sad!

For some reason, it seems like a final letting go of broken relationships and a deep acknowledgment of the way toxic systems and people influence even decent people. It is important that I hold the standard for myself that a relationship with me is worth taking a bit a risk for. 

Your support and encouragment means a lot!

[Hepatica]

Bloomie, I am grateful for your post, as it helps me have insight into my own healing journey.

Even though I do have friends who understand, they were not punished as I have been by my family. When these friends chose to step away, their parents stood with them, even though the parents kept their faith, they did not punish their children for taking a different path. In my situation, just one question was enough to make the faith group pull closer to each other and keep me at a distance. With two friends in particular who I'd met in this faith thru my sister, that one question I asked was enough for them to never return my phone calls and speak to me again. These were close, caring friends for me for years. I was literally in shock that they'd do this. (By the way, the question I asked was: Do you think it is fair to put homosexuals in the same sentence as murderers?) I have since met many gay folks who I love and when I listen to their stories, I have cried.

It is all so ridiculous, as if the format of their church faith is NPD as a whole. I became instant scapegoat for asking a question.

I saw one of the friends who banished me awhile ago in the grocery store. It's about 10 years now and I have no feelings of missing her at all. I did feel anger at her though. Oh did I and mixed with something else, pity. I looked at her and didn't try to hide the feelings I had in my facial expression. I stared at her with strength and then I walked right past her and felt sorry for her.

But I struggle with the family part of this quite a lot.

[blacksheep7]

There are a few people - a dear niece, a sibling, and a few people that I have been friends with for decades who I am coming to terms with tend to treat me like a dirty secret. And it doesn't feel good at all.

Behind the 'scenes' they seem connected and interested in my life and are in fairly regular contact, but when there is an audience where their connection with me would be exposed to people they are close to who may not approve, they are ghosts.

Always contacting me privately or seeing me one on one because PD family members who have powerful sway over both my sib and niece are unhappy or have cut off from me, or in the case of the friends, I stepped away from a certain unhealthy faith family and am now shunned by many in that group. 

Hi Bloomie,

I'm glad you posted this because I have been through this with my nieces, two dd of sis and one from  bro no.2.  I have always been close with sis and her dd keeping in touch and visiting regularly, mostly superficial. I would go shopping downtown with nieces which sis wouldn't do...hates being downtown.  Since my nc with my NM, triangulation was put into place and eventually I had nc from my sibs who either ignored me or tried to hoover by telling me to forgive her, she's old  or that it was «my issues» with her. 

My nieces have been in and out of my life or in the doorway as you say 

They understood the dynamic of  NM (their gm) dysfunction  and her controling ways, emotional blackmail in the foo  always being in the victim mode, the waif  But portraying to the outsiders perfection, kindness & love...the Happy Family.  This especially since gc (her surrogate husband, who looks like NF  ) came back in our lives after 30 years of doing his thing.

My three nieces  would also send me private happybirthdays.  For a while I thought that my bro dd was slowly coming Out of the FOG,  the passed down  dysfunction  with her own father having similar traits (moody & violent, walking on eggshells, as my NF, her gf.  She was a runnaway x times and this was a secret in the Foo.
The phrase (red flag) that stood out to me was «if I want to talk to him when he comes home from work, I have to check and see if he's in a good mood»   That says it all!   
As much as she loved coming here in her mid to late teens and on (because it was quiet here), she now avoided me saying it's the covid but posts Fbook pictures close together with friends.  She is 30 and a nurse.  I understood  her unwillingness to come and gave up asking.  I know she is stuck in the Fog/enmeshed and trauma bond with her NF.  She suffered from depression early on in her career and before that had  stress related illnesses like shingles, reprecussions from abuse imo/e.  She reminds me of my self youger

My sisters dd who I was even closer with have continued to come over to visit to have intense conversations that they couldn't have with their M because sis is closed off emotionally.  So they visited in June after having heard from them in practically a year and promised to come back in August for during their vacations with a  new life partner for the eldest  that I had not met.

Well they did it again, NOTHING, no news...I mean wt..... Still not dependable just like last year taking three months to come to a date to visit, always putting it off and when the time came.  Oh my god auntie, I forgot, we booked a summer house for the weekend, again cancelled. 

Makes me wonder if they just come to see what's going on in my life cause I hardly don't post anymore.  They tell me that all our contact is hidden from their M. the lost child protecting her like a child, avoiding feelings of any sort.
I did tell them that  I will most probably resume contact with her only when NM passes. 

We're in this together!  And this was an opportunity to express my experience.

[blacksheep7]

Bloomie, I am grateful for your post, as it helps me have insight into my own healing journey.

Even though I do have friends who understand, they were not punished as I have been by my family. When these friends chose to step away, their parents stood with them, even though the parents kept their faith, they did not punish their children for taking a different path. In my situation, just one question was enough to make the faith group pull closer to each other and keep me at a distance. With two friends in particular who I'd met in this faith thru my sister, that one question I asked was enough for them to never return my phone calls and speak to me again. These were close, caring friends for me for years. I was literally in shock that they'd do this. (By the way, the question I asked was: Do you think it is fair to put homosexuals in the same sentence as murderers?) I have since met many gay folks who I love and when I listen to their stories, I have cried.

It is all so ridiculous, as if the format of their church faith is NPD as a whole. I became instant scapegoat for asking a question.

I saw one of the friends who banished me awhile ago in the grocery store. It's about 10 years now and I have no feelings of missing her at all. I did feel anger at her though. Oh did I and mixed with something else, pity. I looked at her and didn't try to hide the feelings I had in my facial expression. I stared at her with strength and then I walked right past her and felt sorry for her.

But I struggle with the family part of this quite a lot.

The truth and anything uncommon that does not fit in their mold or box is scary for most Pds.  They choose to ignore it like my Foo.

I was told by my nieces that their M, my sister was intimidated by my  knowledge.  Oh boy.         

[1footouttadefog]

I call it being a back door or bottom shelf friend, I like the standing in the door imagery
In your quote.

In such relationships, It feels like I am supposed to slip out the back if someone else shows up.

I have had some of these relationships.  I decided to examine each and every one.  Why is it like this, are they genuine in their continued contact or is it serving a selfish purpose for them.  For example I fix computers, am I being strung along because I am useful.  Or am I being used as an emotional dumping ground or validation source in a sadly non reciprical relationship.  Is this relationship bringing more net joy than toxicity or stress. 

As you say you are not powerless.  You get to decide if each of these relationships work for you or not.  You can decide to downgrade, or ajust them until they are safe and comfortable or to disconnect  all together.

Over time my church has evolved into a different place than it was 12 years ago. So many I new and clicked with have moved away and some have paced away.      I was contemplating finding a new church when covid came and we quit meeting.  I found that not going reduced stress and that I did not really miss it as much as I thought I would.  I have since visited another and found the simplicity of merely attending with no existing social connection refreshing.  The social nuetrality by contrast amplifies that where I am leaving has become socially negative for me. 

I have found the same measures useful in examining individual relationship.  For example does it bring more stress than a stranger cashiering my groceries does? 

You deserve to have interesting relationships with people who want to be around you and know you. 

[bloomie]

Wow, I so appreciate the insights! Such commonalities for all of us and I am sad for that and yet thankful that each one of you is willing to share and offer help and make something worthy of these struggles and the harm that has come from others who live in a confusing kind of undecided stance toward us. 

I can see it is enmeshment and reliance upon family or faith systems that demand total compliance and rigid adherence to conformity and in my own case anyway, are centered around dominant and highly controlling people with very strong N traits and the oh, so convincing appearance of a sheep when in behaviors they are actually wolves.

Reading through each response the floodgates opened and I can't begin to say how healing the validation you all have offered is for me. 😭

I have realized that in the relationships that are causing angst to arise and questions to be asked for me - niece, sibling, and longstanding friends, former faith community - I have loved with my whole heart and given of myself in the relationships and what is causing the tension is that I still feel a sense of responsibility and compassion for one and all, but if I am truly honest with myself I don't want relationships that hurt anymore.

AND as others have said they have felt, for the first time EVER  I feel angry and am allowing the hurt to come forward.  That I would be a bottom shelf or back door relationship to them. (that was helpful terminology 1foot)

I'm angry with myself for allowing it for so long and I am angry with their weakness and lack of judgment that perpetuates abuse from bullies and covertly N abuse in unhealthy systems. Going around the mountain of grief again.

[Hepatica]

Bloomie,

I'm so glad for you. Anger is good. I am finally feeling it regarding my own safety. I have been caught up in giving people far too much acceptance for terrible behaviour and it is in the past few months, finally I feel anger and it feels strong and fresh and honest. It is a good sign for me. I finally have this feeling like I am done pleasing other people, who in the end only want to control me, or interact with me because of duty only. I am absolutely done.

I too will surround myself with people who show give and take and regular human flaws but in the end good, kind and loving hearts, and who want to be there, even if this means at certain times (holidays) I feel slightly bereft and lonely. That loneliness is temporary and I can handle it.

Wolves in sheeps clothing. Isn't that the truth? Perfect analogy.

I have been watching a number of videos on the Religious Trauma Institute website and they are really at the forefront of trauma research and healing. Excellent information there.

[Laurie]

I have realized that in the relationships that are causing angst to arise and questions to be asked for me - niece, sibling, and longstanding friends, former faith community - I have loved with my whole heart and given of myself in the relationships and what is causing the tension is that I still feel a sense of responsibility and compassion for one and all, but if I am truly honest with myself I don't want relationships that hurt anymore.

DH and I have various family members that are varying degrees of PD and some that are just a bit "off" for a variety of reasons.  While we care deeply about some of them, and at times have been disappointed by a lack of reciprocity, our approach has been to keep things a lot simpler and keep expectations on the low side.  For some, we consider a simple exchange of holiday cards and brief visits as our definition of success.  While we might like closer relationships with some, by keeping contact more minimal, we avoid some of the messy situation we hear about from various family member.

We decided to continue holiday cards with some and to continue to treat some of those "odd duck quasi PD oddballs" in a positive manner regardless of their negative behavior, keep our distance and make our own fun.  They can join us in our fun if they want, or continue to be sourpusses.

As far as the religious side, some group as so entrenched in their way of looking at things that any ability to think for oneself is considered a threat.  Politics can be the same way, and DH and I have had relatives and friends all over the spectrum.  If you're being "shunned" by those who don't approve, in my opinion, a close relationship just may not be healthy.  You might consider stepping back from some of these family members and friends rather then writing them off completely.  Sending a simple holiday card (even if they don't send one back), especially during Covid, might be called "success" for the time being.