Would like your opinion

[tommom]

My PDh would have qualified, I suspect, for Passive Aggressive PD, if they hadn't removed it from the DSM, but I wondered what you thought on this one.

I ask him to please clear off the table in the kitchen (it had a stack of mail, two magazines, and maybe some other things similar - no big deal, but they are items that he has specific problems throwing or giving away.). There is a place for them all to be kept, if he were willing to do that. He has his little places (not designated) where he will kind of stack them, although never in my studio. After I finish dinner, I walk through the former den, which is my studio. The things off the kitchen table are lying all over my desk. I ask what this is; he is all innocence. That more than anything makes me suspicious.

I have said before, he has ADD and is a hoarder which might explain some of that, BUT...

Is this aggressive, do you think, as in PA behavior toward me and what I am doing? He talks a great talk about how he supports my doing my work in there, but I'm kind of dubious now, especially after that (not the first sort of small thing like this though). I am beginning to think it might qualify as petulant behavior or maybe even malicious. He IS extremely controlling and I now worry this is now yet another area of his attempt to control.

If I'm not making sense, I found a great article on PA behaviors here, if you are interested: https://www.liveyourtruestory.com/examples-of-passive-aggressive-behaviour-communication/

So, anyone else experience something like this? His actions and words don't match, but I have seen that so many times. Is this just the ADD? It was two of his biggest hording items, was it a hoar?. Or does it sound more to you as aggression against what I am doing, my work? (After all, when I'm working, my attention is not on him...)

Really appreciate any input, similar experiences, ways of dealing, etc.

Thanks

[Associate of Daniel]

I don't have an answer to your question, I'm sorry.

But I can't help thinking that he's almost given you a gift.

You could now ask him to remove the items from your studio and give him a time frame to do so.  If they haven't been removed by said time you reserve the right to dispose of the items in whatever way you choose.

Do you think that might work?  It's just a small part of what you're dealing with but it could give you back a small amount of your "power" in the hoarding situation.

AOD

[eyesopen]

You said it's your studio and your desk. I would interpret his actions one of two ways: (1) he's passive aggressively invading your space because he doesn't approve of your claim on the former den or (2) he doesn't care about any of the mail/magazines and left them there for you to decide what to do with them.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt whenever I can, so I'd lean toward the latter interpretation and just throw away the stuff I don't want to keep. By his putting that stuff on your desk, he's letting you know that he wants you to have it. If he later throws a fit for throwing it away, just ask, "If you wanted to keep it for yourself, why did you put it on my desk?"

[tommom]

Wow, guys. Great suggestions, as always!

AOD, I had a friend with five kids who did something like that. She had "the box" and what was removed from where it shouldn't be during the week, went in it. At the end of the week, if it hadn't been reclaimed, out it went. Her kids, now adults, all are very well-trained. ( Of course, you have to be pretty ruthless about housecleaning with five kids.) I had forgotten about that. Excellent.

And eyesopen, I think your #1 is the truth, he is being aggressive about feeling "invaded". When I first put a studio (in a bedroom) he was really kind of weird about it. I had to get him to knock; I'm a musician, and I use recording equipment so walking in on me working means starting all over sometimes. THAT made him nuts for awhile. But I liked the second one, similar to AOD's and my friend's.

So, I tossed out the magazines, dealt with the mail, some of which also went in the trash. All dealt with!    My guess is he doesn't even notice. I've been tossing old issues of magazines out for a couple of years, sneaking them in the trash a few at a time. He doesn't seem to miss them (How could he? There are stacks -but a lot less than there used to be!)

Thanks!

[GettingOOTF]

My experience with my ex (diagnosed as BPD) was that his words and actions never matched. It took me a long time to see that his actions were who he is and his words were what he used to keep me in the FOG and constantly second guessing myself. I tied myself in to knots trying to understand why he did the things he did, what they meant, whether they were his BPD or not. My entire life revolved around him, his behaviors and their consequences. 

He also leaned towards hoarding. He’d have a physical reaction to having to throw things out. We moved multiple times with boxes of unopened mail, broken mugs, flyers he’d picked up at shows. He also didn’t like me having my own space and invaded it when ever he could.

Putting his stuff in your space after you asked him to move it is absolutely an act of aggression. It’s exactly the petty thing my ex would do. He’d then act all innocent when I called him on it and I’d be turned in to the unreasonable one.

I came to the conclusion that the whys of his behaviors didn’t matter. I could no longer live with someone who treated me and our space the way he did.

When he left he also left behind his precious “hoard”. I don’t think he ever cared about it. I think he used it as part of his passive aggressive control and manipulation of me. 

I also tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, however PDs use this to manipulate situations and relationship to get the control they need to feel safe.

At the end of the day our spouses are adults, they are 100% aware of what they are doing when they do it. I say this as someone who has done their share of petty things over the years.

Given how you’ve been about your space and his clutter did you leave any room for doubt that your space should not be used as his dumping ground? I think it’s a safe “no”. My ex absolutely did things like this. He did it to passively aggressively attack me and so that I would take care of the things he didn’t want me to. 

[Lauren17]

My PDh would have qualified, I suspect, for Passive Aggressive PD, if they hadn't removed it from the DSM, but I wondered what you thought on this one.

Me too!  I don't know why they removed this from the DSM, since I'm not a psychologist and I'm living with a PA person. I now think he's a covert narc. They use these same behaviors.
Anyhow, I am right here with you on this.
My uBPDh isn't a hoarder but he tidies things exactly as you describe.  Another favorite tactic is listed in the article you link. He would have cleared away 90% if the mess and left the rest spread across the table for me to deal with.
Yes, this is passive aggressive. Yes, it's meant it send a message.
I'm not sure what to tell you as there is no solution here. I guess it depends if your goal is having the table cleared or having some peace.
For the first, I try to ask for everything in a calm manner, provide specifics, a timeline and a consequence.
"Can you please move the things on the table tonight by bedtime? Otherwise, I will throw them out tomorrow morning." Of course, it's hard to remember to phrase everything this way so I often miss something. It also often leads to nasty responses from him about how he's an adult and I'm treating him like a child.
If the goal is peace, then make the request and finish the job as you see fit.
I don't feel like this was a helpful response in terms of what to do. But please accept my empathy.

[Associate of Daniel]

Tommom, you might now have set a precedent which could work in your favour.

I wonder - if you were to ask your H again to remove various piles, would he again put them in your studio?

If so, you could trash them, just as you did the first pile.  You'd soon have an unhoarded house!🤣

AOD