Anyone else tired of the ‘how could you do this?’ Line

[poetandpunk]

Hello everyone and happy holidays!

Hope you are faring well despite the high likelihood of hoovering around the holidays.

I know PD parents come in and all shapes and sizes. I'm just wondering of you have parents and family like mine. I believe my parents are both NPD and feed off of each other in a cyclical way.

I went NC 7 years ago and the whole time they have tried to get In touch, creating new email addresses or using flying monkeys such as church pastors.

I've read a few of their emails over the years though I mostly delete them.

They always say things like, how can you do this to us? How come you don't care about your family? Your nieces and nephews are so hurt by your choices.

Then my older sister has used her children like bargaining chips, saying how I have been shameful to not show interest in their lives.

The sad fact is if I have to see her or my parents in order to have a relationship with my nieces and nephews, than sadly I'd rather take nothing than be in my sister's presence.

My family is so enmeshed and toxic that it amazes me that they are incapable of thinking for a second about WHY I have made my choices. Instead they dwell on how hurt they are, only reinforcing my points and the reason for my boundaries.

I know some PD relatives don't even pretend to care.

But are any of your family members like mine, saying how much they care and how hurt they are, how they think you're awful for being so cold and uncaring?

Does anyone else get this?

[DistanceNotDefense]

Does anyone else get this?

YES. 100%. Darvo if there ever was.

:Hug: poetandpunk if you need one...if not that's OK.

[poetandpunk]

Oh thanks distancenotdefence!

Hugs from me too!

[Call Me Cordelia]

My family is so enmeshed and toxic that it amazes me that they are incapable of thinking for a second about WHY I have made my choices. Instead they dwell on how hurt they are, only reinforcing my points and the reason for my boundaries.

Sigh, isn't it ironic? And around and around they go. They cry "Why?" and are incapable of hearing the answer. If they could have heard it, they would have a long time ago and you wouldn't be NC for seven years. If they would be honest and look at their behavior and look at your actual feelings even a little bit, you wouldn't be where you are.

It's like the thread that asked why estranged parents don't just apologize. Because if they were the apologizing sort they wouldn't be estranged parents, generally speaking.

And because if YOU are the awful one, they don't have to be in their mind. Yup, DARVO. It's much more comfortable to vilify you and try to force you back into old patterns, despite seven years of those tactics failing, than to ever consider any sort of actual change. Because that would mean shattering their false selves, and facing reality, which is too terrifying for the pwpd. Even by emailing you they can still scapegoat and assign all blame to you. That's comfortable for them, and that's what your purpose is in their minds. It's only less convenient for them to have a scapegoat who doesn't respond.

[BettyGray]

Scapegoats, the lot of us.

“How could you do this (to me/us/them)?”

Victims, always. We have no voice to them, so how dare we actually have one all of a sudden?

“But we’re your FAMILY. You have to love us, warts and all.”

(Warts are just unseemly - they aren’t cancerous or inherently destructive). Sorry, festering and contagious open sores are something I try to avoid.

What amazes me  is that if any of them had been paying a lick of attention, they would have not been caught off guard by NC. I had one foot out the door when I was 16. I wanted to go to a special (arts focused) high school in another part of the state so I could get away. They said no. So I applied for out of state colleges. Nmom wouldn’t pay for part of it unless I stayed in-state.

I went to an in-state college, but I didn’t come home that much. Didn’t go home during summer breaks. Moved back home after college and was gone every weekend to visit my long-distance boyfriend.

I made it clear I was applying for jobs in other parts of the country. Their response was a)you won’t get any of those jobs and b) if you do, you don’t know how to live on your own , so you’d just end up coming home anyway.”

Got a job in another state, moved, got married, moved again. Visited less every year. Visits got shorter. This went on for 20 years after I moved away. I am pretty sure that in those 20 years, neither  my father or either of my two brothers so much as picked up a phone to say hi, emailed or acknowledged my birthday. All communication was through Nmom.

Mom rarely called me. It was my duty to call her. She showed no interest in me or my life. Sister called too often, got mad at me for any boundaries I tried to enforce, and also showed little to no interest in my life.

Not to mention the passive aggressive Christmas presents (clothing not my taste in two sizes too big, thoughtless gifts for DH, giving extravagant gifts to one another and then giving me something like socks, a discount bargain basement blanket with the tags still on), NEVER anything I truly wanted or would have enjoyed. The comments about me having an extra slice of pie, comments on my appearance, choices, etc.

And yet....How could I do this to them?

What kind of person does this to her own family?

You owe them!  After all they’ve done for you! You’re so selfish!! And mean!!!

I think the hardest thing for me wasn’t losing these people - I had surface, chilly bonds with them at best. It was coming to terms that I lived in a completely different reality than they. And that there was NOTHING I could ever do to penetrate their protective bubble of denial, willful ignorance and resentment. Nothing. All those years of trying and hoping. All along, they lived in a fantasy world and I couldn’t change that. That is a pretty mind-blowing realization about people you thought were rational (if unstable) people.

NC burst  that bubble and now they have to live with the mess they created. It’s much easier to ask ‘how could you?’ than to ask ‘how could we have let this happen?’ or ‘what could we have done differently?’’

These folks are on an unreachable island. It’s like we’re telling them if they don’t leave they’ll starve to death. Then one day, we spot a boat, grateful for a way out. They decide the island is better than the rescue boat, and decide to stick together. Then they blame us for leaving them there, after we tried to talk sense into them.  When thy run out of food, they turn on each other. But ultimately we “left them there” and it’s our fault for their starvation. 

You can’t fix stupid. And you can’t fix deluded.

[poetandpunk]

Hi Liz1018!

Boy can I relate to this:

'"But we're your FAMILY. You have to love us, warts and all."

(Warts are just unseemly - they aren't cancerous or inherently destructive). Sorry, festering and contagious open sores are something I try to avoid.'

That gave me chills to read. Because it's so so so spot on.

Over and over again I process how my family functions with this golden rule - you have to love us, warts and all.

My mom has even said in her own defense, 'Well, no family is perfect!'

And here's the thing. That's true! No family is perfect. Every family has issues. But the difference between a family with NPD/PD members and a family with the highs and lows of personalities and life in general IS SIGNIFICANT.

As far as I can tell, my family functions under a very different set of rules.

I believe normal families seek to love and understand. Conflicts will always arise, but in a healthy situation, family members are willing to explore their own actions and take ownership for wrong or hurtful behavior.

My parents seem to think they can say and do whatever they want and without any reprecussions. The very act of confronting one of my parents about their behavior is completely incompatible with their view of family. Whenever I did confront them, or my NPD sister, I was told I was being disrespectful, I had provoked them to act that way, who did I think I was?, I was not honoring my parents. Mind you, this wasn't me just screaming or fighting or swearing for no reason or something. This was me saying, 'if you scream on Christmas even though I've done nothing wrong, I don't want to be around it' or 'I don't feel emotionally safe or comfortable when you do . . . ' 'You cannot speak to me that way. I am an adult.'

And so on.

When my husband and I said we would not tolerate certain behaviours anymore, my parents pulled every playing card in the book: they said they were hurt, they said I had disrespected them, they said I had caused them more pain than the day my older brother died, they said they loved me and missed me, etc.

They did not, however, at any point, say that they had reflected on their behaviors and that they had tried to consider WHY I might be implementing such strong boundaries. It just couldn't cross their minds. The idea that they might be wrong or be acting in wrong ways was not an option.

There was ONLY an emphasis on how THEY had been wronged, THEY were feeling, THEY were hurt.

They NEVER ONCE REFERENCED THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR, which was what we had pointed out to them clearly and calmly.

It's just absolutely amazing. But sad. And pathetic.

Pathetic how these patterns repeat in different families, like symptoms of a common illness.

[Liketheducks]

Ugh....yep.   The common theme in our family was "I'd never do THIS to My Mom"....from my mother to me.   Whether it be date a boy she didn't like or choosing little things that I might like vs. what she does....like silly stuff....like having lazy Susans in my cupboards.   I really don't like them.   I'm not my mother.   And, my mother is not my grandmother.   
I've been completely scapegoated now.   And, that's ok.  I'm living a much more peaceful existence.   I'll be here if their behavior changes.....but my response to this has completely changed for the better.   

[Call Me Cordelia]

How could I do this? Protect myself?

How could parents deliberately, over and over, cause me to be miserable? And enjoy it?

How could they beat me?

How could they make it a child’s job to take care of them?

How could they tell me nobody would ever like me?

How could they try to destroy good things in my life?

How could they? How could they?

[BettyGray]

I so wish I could give each and every one of you a great big hug and that we could all have a big, cleansing cry together.

This is number 5 NCholiday for me. For five years I have been so comforted knowing you all exist and that we have a place where we feel safe and where we  belong.

I have my own list of 'how could yous' which I actually started to type, but then realized the list was too long. The thing is- until we write them down or tell a therapist or trusted person what happened, we don't realize that this was not just any family dysfunction.

The things we thought were normal enough are absolutely not. And yet the family image to the outside world was as polished as a teacher's apple.

[Hepatica]

These folks are on an unreachable island. It's like we're telling them if they don't leave they'll starve to death. Then one day, we spot a boat, grateful for a way out. They decide the island is better than the rescue boat, and decide to stick together. Then they blame us for leaving them there, after we tried to talk sense into them.  When thy run out of food, they turn on each other. But ultimately we "left them there" and it's our fault for their starvation. 

That's exactly how it feels and is. Very well said.

[newlife33]

It is just another tool in their toxic toolbox of manipulation.  It doesn't happen anymore but when it did I would handle it as so: I would be hit with a little bit or shame and guilt.  Then I would tell myself that these are *irrational* feelings, and then I let them pass.  Once I started doing that it became easier to move on and be free.