Mom wants to gift us money

[Sneezy]

My mom has announced that she is taking money out of her retirement account and giving it to her children (myself and several siblings).  I think this is a terrible idea for so many reasons.  It's not a lot of money and she can afford it, for now.  But the day may come when she needs assisted living (she is currently in independent living) or in-home help.  I think she should save her money in case that day ever comes.  And I'm worried that her stance will be "well, I gave my money to you kids, so now one of you needs to care for me."  And I sure as heck don't plan on ever living with her.

But, if I make a big deal out of it, and try to talk her out of it, then that will just feed the drama that she thrives on.  So do I let it go?  DH says we should just keep track of any monetary gifts she gives us, and if the day comes when she needs care that she can't afford, then we will give her back what she gave us. 

[M0009803]

Your DHs idea is sound.

Ring-fence the money she gives you.

With PDs its just a matter of time till they weaponise their financial gifts (it is also possible this might be her end game as well)

Keep the peace but be prepared.

[Sneezy]

Your DHs idea is sound.

This must be my day to go off-topic, but you are so right.  DH is often spot on when it comes to dealing with my mom (and I should listen to him more often).  And yet, when it comes to his own mom, who ticks every single box for HPD, he can't even think about her, much less deal with her.  I guess my point is that is easier to deal with a PD parent when it's not your PD parent.  So tonight I am thankful for wise spouses.  And thankful for wise advice from all of you    Thanks!

[Boat Babe]

What you say about your husband is so true Sneezy.  I give brilliant advice to people re domestic violence, personality disorders, co-dependancy etc. Not so good when it's about me though.  Wish I could follow my own advice more often. Working on it!

[SparkStillLit]

Whhoooof, no. Good idea, DH. All PD "gifts" and especially monetary ones, have strings attached.
Not strings. Giant anchors suitable for battleships.
I have made this horrible mistake in the past.

[Sneezy]

Wish I could follow my own advice more often.

Me too!  If I followed my own advice more often, I'd also weigh 120 pounds and have abs of steel. 

I think so much of what we talk about on these forums is easier said than done.  But if we can even do part of what we know we should do when dealing with PDs, then we are that much better off.  Baby steps.

[GettingOOTF]

I think so much of what we talk about on these forums is easier said than done.

This is why it's so valuable when people share their own experiences. I shows me what can be done. Anyone can have an opinion and give advice, it's a different level when someone talks from their very own experience of a similar situation.

[Sneezy]

This is why it's so valuable when people share their own experiences. I shows me what can be done. Anyone can have an opinion and give advice, it's a different level when someone talks from their very own experience of a similar situation.

Yes, I find myself remembering WI's Didi and Ray stories.  I often tell myself that if Woman Interrupted could handle such-and-such a situation with Didi, then I can certainly handle my situation with my mom.  The support, the shared stories, and all the advice on these forums has been a godsend.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

But, if I make a big deal out of it, and try to talk her out of it, then that will just feed the drama that she thrives on. 

I believe what you said here is so true. If you have such a conversation with her, you would of course be coming from a perspective of wanting her to preserve her own resources for her own future needs. Most of us save our lifetime for this reason. However, with PD parents they find ways to take offense and spin a story about how you are not interested, too good for it, etc. It happened with my parents. In their words "I just do not want what they have, am not interested in anything the family has at all." My vote would also be take the wise advice of your dear husband. Just accept whatever she may give, say nothing, and deposit it in a separate account. Maybe think of it as safeguarding her money until she needs it.   
   

[Fiasco]

Anyone in the US presented with this issue please do a google search for "Medicaid look back period". Medicaid is not available until your assets are depleted and when you apply your finances over the past five years will be examined. If you have given away any significant cash or other assets within the five years before you apply for Medicaid there is a penalty period where you are ineligible. Giving away cash, signing over homes, etc is a common way people try to hide some of their assets and they are on the look out for it, big time.

[Poison Ivy]

 
My mom, who does not have a PD, has given me and my siblings money gifts regularly. I have not talked to her directly about the legal and financial risks of doing so, but I have segregated all the money I've received. I put it into one account, and I do my financial planning with the expectation that I might have to pay back this money, to my mom or to the state, at some point. Unfortunately, I can't control what my siblings do with their shares.

[Sneezy]

Anyone in the US presented with this issue please do a google search for "Medicaid look back period". Medicaid is not available until your assets are depleted and when you apply your finances over the past five years will be examined. If you have given away any significant cash or other assets within the five years before you apply for Medicaid there is a penalty period where you are ineligible. Giving away cash, signing over homes, etc is a common way people try to hide some of their assets and they are on the look out for it, big time.

This is my fear.  But . . . if the day comes where Mom needs care that she can't afford, we will just have to deal with it then.  Mom will have to spend down her assets, and there may be a penalty period where we will have to decide if and how much to help her until she is eligible for Medicaid.  And of course there will be a host of other issues at the time, such as finding a place with availability, dealing with her reluctance to move, ensuring that she receives proper care, etc.  But at this point, I can't borrow trouble.  I will keep track of what she gives us, set it aside in case the day comes when she needs it, and deal with the rest when and if it happens.

[IRedW77]

Yeah. In the states that's a big thing to watch out for. Not to get on a political soapbox, but it's actually really perverse. That Medicaid look back period almost always ends up burning the people who can least afford it. People with substantial assets plan for it. People with very little either don't know, don't plan, or don't even have the money to pay an expert to help them avoid that nasty penalty. In theory it maybe makes sense, don't let the government pay for people when they have the money to do it themselves, but we already paid for it with our taxes. The people that have the money to pay for fancy care avoid these penalties anyway. The people that depend on the state end up losing everything they've worked a lifetime for to pay for a broken system. Almost every other wealthy country on earth has universal healthcare and decent social services that don't put people in this awful spot. Your parents money, their house, most anything can and will be seized by the government to pay for late life care if you don't prepare at least 5 years before you need to.

So if you can get your PD parent to do this stuff on their own it's better. It's hard under normal circumstances, but I won't even get into the laundry list of why it's harder with PD parents.

But you've got it down. Set it aside so whoever comes looking to take anything from you whether it's your uncle or Uncle Sam can just get it back. But also, keep records of what you get when. If you've had it saved for over 5 years Uncle Sam at least can't expect it back. BUT look into it all on your own and talk to experts, because I am not one, and any good advice is subject to change.

Good luck! But it seems like you've already got the situation as well in hand as you can

[Sneezy]

So if you can get your PD parent to do this stuff on their own it's better. It's hard under normal circumstances, but I won't even get into the laundry list of why it's harder with PD parents.

I think you've hit the nail on the head when it comes to elderly PD parents.  Most people realize that they need to prepare for their later years, and they get expert advice where needed (or google it or listen to their children).  But PD parents are often in denial.  My mom is convinced that she is healthy as a horse and she denies every medical problem she has.  She can barely walk, but she tries to "forget" her walker or cane whenever she can because "I don't really need it."  And PDs don't think rules apply to them.  So they ignore or deny that there are rules about things such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.  They truly make it impossible to plan for the future.  But then when things go wrong and the rules come back to bite them or their terrible health habits catch up with them, it's always someone else's fault.  The day may come when my mom falls and ends up in expensive rehab/assisted living.  I can't wait to hear how I caused it.

[Sneezy]

Actually, I need to fix what I said.  Mom is convinced she is healthy as a horse when it suits her and when she wants to deny a medical problem that might impact her (such as not eating so much sugar because she is diabetic).  However, she will also make a mountain of a mole hill when it suits her to get attention.  So she alternates between denial and calling me in a panic with her latest medical emergency ("my foot hurts, come over right away and take me to the doctor", etc.).

In any case, rational planning for the future is not a strong point of most elderly PD parents.