My story / a vent

[colonelgraff]

TW: Childhood abuse, sexual assault, drug & alcohol abuse, eating disorders, suicidal ideation.

This is long and rambling and potentially incoherent in places. I'm struggling a lot right now, and (digging into my strength here) I'm not going to apologize, but I'd be happy to clarify anything that doesn't make snese.

My relationship with my partner has been experiencing major volatility over the past several years. I like to think of myself as an even-keeled person. I get along well with people around me, I do well at work, and I try really hard to support my partner. When we first got together, I had been in a relationship with someone who eventually would be diagnosed bipolar. The bipolar relationship blew up, I started dating my current spouse, and things seemed to be going well. My ex then had a major episode--the whole nine yards. People in my life who remained friends with my ex were no longer my friends, and it made snese--how could you be friends with someone who did these things?

My partner and I bonded quickly. We were young, in love, and got engaged within 6 months. We supported each other through tough times.

There was always a friend on the way out--someone who had mistreated her, done things that were wrong. In all these cases, it kind of just made sense. Hearing my partner's versions of events, of course you wouldn't want to be friends with someone who treated you that way. I'm not inclined to argue with how my partner felt in those moments, why would I?

For the first several years of our marriage, things felt great. They would have blow-ups with their siblings, parents, and friends, and I would be able to support them through their pain. Friends come and go as they always do, and I see my partner's perspective in how a lot of friendships ended: some showed mean behaviors. Others suddenly went no contact. It always makes sense and has a valid explanation.

My partner was abused as a child. Their mother is an addict. They were groomed and abused by a teacher in high school. These pieces of information come out over time.

About four years ago is the first time that things have started to turn hard for me personally. After my partner's father died suddenly, they began to go to therapy. They told me how sexually aggressive I always was with them and asked me to change. I didn't feel like I could ever get it right. One time after flirting with me, we had sex after which they told me they felt raped. I took it seriously. I went to therapy. I learned about enthusiastic consent. I applied it. Things got better. I am not a perfect person, and if my partner feels victimized, especially by me it is my responsibility to fix those parts of me, even if I don't understand them well. Even if the first times I'm hearing they doesn't like how I act or treat her or behave sexually are well after the fact, years afterwards, I want to make things right.

They introduced a close friend of theirs from work to me, and we formed an independent friendship quickly. We went to sports events, played games, hung out separately. This coworker got promoted and recommended my spouse backfill his position. They applied, got accepted, and then the complaints about the other person started. He made a crude joke at dinner about my spouse needing to do better at work. My partner confronted him. I confronted him. He took good accountability of what he said, but it wasn't enough. My spouse and I started to fight a lot about whether I should be allowed to remain friends with her coworker when they have such a fraught relationship. My partner began to rely on him to document and respond to requests--granted the field is complex and he didn't do diligence on documenting turnover. He had a new job now with more responsibilities in a completely different area of the business and couldn't respond to all my partner's requests. It took a while but I eventually capitulated and cut him out of friend groups and we moved on.

We had been in a polyamorous relationship for years--my spouse had one serious partner outside our marriage, and the two times I had any relationship/physical intimacy the agreement would change after the fact. My spouse's agreement and encouragement of me pursuing outside companionship before the things happened would suddenly change to resentment that I had done what was encouraged. We'd fight for days.

In 2017 my spouse got a crush on someone new. I'd had a crush on the new person's spouse. They were willing to join us. Two couples together, how great! They lived across the country, which made seeing them hard, but we had lots of fun events and times together. Things were good... until in 2019 my secondary partner began showing symptoms of pain from being in a polyamorous relationship. All of a sudden my spouse began requiring debriefs and touchpoints on a weekly basis to talk through the ways that my secondary had hurt them by blowing up. Each conversation would stir up new issues. Things weren't getting better. My secondary partner was trying hard but not meeting my spouse's needs. My secondary partner went to therapy. Cut alcohol out of their life. This revealed latent anorexia that was being mitigated from alcohol calories. Since then my secondary has been working hard on themself. At one point she was worried she may have BPD, but her therapist categorically said no. While my secondary was doing DBT, she didn't exhibit any of the major markers of BPD. My secondary told my spouse this, and my spouse latched onto how irresponsible it is for someone with BPD to be involved in any relationship, much less a poly one. How unethical they are being.

My spouse started driving a wedge between me and my secondary partner. They read my text messages with my secondary and used direct quotes where I had slightly vented about my spouse in a fight with me. Suddenly I was a liar because I denied saying what I (kind of) said and pointing out it was out of context and not what was intended. Things degraded. My partner began starting major fights with me. If I'd do anything other than agree with them in a fight, if I didn't agree with their conclusion about someone's intent, if I didn't just sit and listen to the anxiety go off the rails, I wasn't being a supportive partner. When I'd be convinced and change my mind about something based on what my spouse was telling me, that wasn't good enough--now I was gaslighting them and not telling them what I really thought. In the end of 2019, my spouse got a job offer across the country where we could be within a few hours of our new partners, instead of a 6 hour plane ride.

We moved, and me seeing my partner began to become fraught with difficulties. We'd agree on a plan, and then a fight or outburst would happen right before I was supposed to go, and I'd be abandoning my spouse if I went. We were getting ready to move into a house, why would I go visit my partner? Things continued to degrade between my secondary and my spouse. Eventually my secondary went NC. It quickly got to the point that my spouse demanded I end my relationship with my secondary. I said I'd do it but I'd need my spouse to end their secondary relationship. Suddenly I'm controlling her relationship for knowing what I can't deal with. I didn't end my relationship with my secondary--yet.

I encouraged us to begin couple's counseling.  We did. My spouse encouraged me to start individual therapy so I could "get in touch with my emotions". I did. Individual therapy has been empowering and great. I've been in it for about 10 months, and really feel confident in myself and ability to express myself. I've got tools and techniques. Couples counseling has been an unmitigated disaster. I don't know if it's the therapist, my spouse, or a combination, but my spouse has convinced the therapist that I'm a manipulative controlling person. As I got my feet underneath me and started advocating for myself, my spouse stopped talking to me in therapy and started talking to the therapist. She'd have outbursts in therapy, going as far as to demand a separation, screaming in my face, and I'd walk out, calm her down, and bring her back in the room.

I've suggested my spouse get therapy of her own for a while now. Each time it's met with resistance.

In June I ended my relationship with my secondary, but tried to maintain a friendship. It's been very hard. My spouse has demanded I end the friendship.

Last week was a turning point for me in a year with many turning points. I've been teetering on the edge of separating/divorce for a while. My therapist, having heard me describe the push/pull, the splitting, the outbursts, the inability to hear another person's feelings when they conflict with their worldview, suggested that my description of my spouse aligns with many behaviors commonly associated with borderline personality disorder. I'd never really thought about BPD before. I didn't know the terms, I hadn't tried to diagnose my spouse. Suddenly all the past failed friendships, volatility with family, volatility in our relationship had a different lens. Things snapped into focus. And I can see my spouse's perspective, but with the added lens things just make more sense.

I made a list of my needs in a very non-accusatory way, and including things like "I need to be able to bring emotions to you and have them accepted and understood and cared for." and  "I need you to find a way to interact postiively with your anxieties so that when they manifest, you are able to return to a normal conversation. It is not sustainable for me to be told that I do not love you repeatedly to the point that it causes me to have a panic attack. I am willing to help get you support, but validating your anxieties is not a view of support to me." My therapist told me that if my spouse has BPD that sharing such a list wouldn't go well.

I did it anyway. It didn't go well. There were some that my spouse found reasonable. "I can do this" was as far as it went. No curiosity about why I felt things. "I can admit I did this". No apology, no understanding. Cold. My spouse pushed back on a few of my needs. I gave ground. Again. "I felt threatened" instead of "I need you to acknowledge Like I have time and time again. My spouse explained to me that I'm lucky to not experience anxiety like they do. That most people experience peaking anxiety that results in them  spinning up and being unable to have a conversation. That not talking about her suicidal ideation isn't a problem. That seeking therapy is something that she will do, but she was clearly upset about it. I told her if she's not pursuing something she wants, it won't work. Another key component is that I now must cut off all contact with my secondary by summer (what an odd, arbitrary timeframe) in order to stay married. My spouse won't accept me continuing to be friends. Demands updates about my friendship. Wants to know how I could be friends with someone who refuses to speak to them.

It's hard because when my spouse is nice, they can be one of the best people in the world. They can be so charming, they can be so kind, so thoughtful, so aware of others' needs. Once I started seeing them as my abuser, rather than someone who I had charged interactions with, it's been so hard to reconcile those two people. I know they have good in them. I just wish they still saw good in me. But maybe the fact that they don't means that getting out will be easier.

I don't know how this goes on much longer. I need a partner who cares about me. I've made plenty of mistakes, I'm a flawed person, and I still deserve happiness. My secondary got out and seems like they are doing well. My secondary got out and it meant losing their marriage. A lot of days I wish I could just be back with them. They are nice to me. Right now I'm spending a lot of time with myself, and I can honestly say that I'm finally nice to me and caring about me.

I don't know how to wrap this up. I'm scared, and teetering on the brink, and don't know what comes next. Thanks for reading.

[Frankie14]

Listen, I will be Frank, no pun intended...

You don't mention kids, so I will assume you don't have any, and I don't mean to be curt, but what's holding you with your spouse..?  Clearly it isn't going well...individual therapy, marital therapy, and you guys can't work it out.  You have really tried.  Marriages fail, and it's sad, but that's okay, 50-60% of all marriages DON'T work out..forgive yourself.

If there is anything to be gleaned from Covid, and the lockdowns and the fear, it is that life is too short for all this other drama...especially interpersonal drama, I literally do not have time for it (anymore).  My H is a needy whiner, and I used to cater to it, but now I ignore it.  I no longer engage in his pity parties and attention seeking behavior, which is manipulation. I IGNORE.  Getting into these circular conversations with how we need to cater MORE to them, never gets us anywhere...not in 6 years and not in 15+ years..

My 2 cents; Enjoy your life, if that is without your spouse, so be it.  6 years married after a 6 month courtship, in the grand scheme of life is not a lot of time..if your secondary is causing you enjoyment - and making life more pleasant for you - continue that.  Life is just too short..

For one, I am an autonomous person, I am not an extension of my spouse, he is not me, I am not him, and I would never allow my H to see my texts or emails, P.E.R.I.O.D.  WE ARE NOT ONE PERSON.  I have never asked to see his texts or emails, and I have never snooped.  I do not care what he is doing, and I will do whatever I want, its my life.  I am not cheating but if I wanted to, I could/would, I owe nothing to anyone but myself, and I have been married over 15 years with 3 kids. 

If I found personal pleasure in life elsewhere, I would not give that up.  Quarantine, lockdowns, fear, isolation have taught me this...never again will I be a slave to a whining spouse (my H is a moping alcoholic)..

I hope this makes sense...enjoy your life while you still have one.  Good luck..

[colonelgraff]

No kids, which makes any untangling easier.

What's holding me with my spouse is a hope for a return to where we were years ago, happy together. A belief hope that maybe if we give it a bit more time she'll see something my way and we can put this all behind us. It's hard to know when to throw in the towel and say that we tried but it didn't work out.

Thinking about how our conversations go, now we are in the bargaining phase: "please, let's give it more time, you only just started to express yourself positively," from her, and what I feel inside is "because I learned how to ignore the button pushing you threw at me constantly and could listen to you rant without wanting to crawl out of my own skin". She's constantly wondering why she's begging to keep me around, I should be the one begging for forgiveness for all that I've done, but then also won't that acknowledge the real issues that I'm feeling can even be on the same playing field as what she's going through. You want me to beg for forgiveness? Show me that you're capable of forgiving someone for anything, ever in our relationship!

The original post was because I had that lightbulb moment and found a community that's seen similar things and won't (like most of my friends) question why I'm considering leaving, and having gotten it off my chest (and actually having written the full story down for once) I feel like I'm a little more in a place where I can do my best to look objectively at my life, my happiness, what I want, and begin taking steps I need for myself. Ultimately I'm responsible for my own happiness, and the actions others around me take can contribute or challenge that happiness but if I'm hurting every day when I wake up, then maybe I need a new bed rather than to just lament how uncomfortable it is.

Thanks for your kind reply.

[colonelgraff]

I just realized that I typed that my secondary went NC with my spouse, and I hadn't actually processed it that way before.

My secondary, at the advice of her counselor(s), went no contact with my spouse, in order to protect and preserve their mental health.

My spouse has a problem with the boundry being set and is wielding it against me.

Funny when things click into place sometimes.

[1footouttadefog]

Read lots of stories here. You will see some consistent truths.

Borderlines and other cluster B personality disordered folks rarely ever change.  Couples counceling with cluster b people rarely brings about positive change.

The chsrming oerson you fell in love with rarwly returns once they have devalued the non pd partner.

Borderlines are especially prone to blacl and white thinking, all or nothing exoectatiins, need to be center of attention constantly although notbalways in a gregarious way. It can be through manipulation and intrusion on all aspects of the partners life.  Calling, texting, interupting, leaving a list of stuff to do for them to occupy your free time when they are absent and on and on.

BPD folks can also be jealous and undermine and sabatage the non partner or co workers and friends.

Often the partners of cluster bs are considered property of or an extention of the pd person.  The non partners are therefore not aotomomous, and should reflect the ideas and beliefs of the pd.

[Frankie14]

Read lots of stories here. You will see some consistent truths.

Borderlines and other cluster B personality disordered folks rarely ever change.  Couples counceling with cluster b people rarely brings about positive change.

The chsrming oerson you fell in love with rarwly returns once they have devalued the non pd partner.

Borderlines are especially prone to blacl and white thinking, all or nothing exoectatiins, need to be center of attention constantly although notbalways in a gregarious way. It can be through manipulation and intrusion on all aspects of the partners life.  Calling, texting, interupting, leaving a list of stuff to do for them to occupy your free time when they are absent and on and on.

BPD folks can also be jealous and undermine and sabatage the non partner or co workers and friends.

Often the partners of cluster bs are considered property of or an extention of the pd person.  The non partners are therefore not aotomomous, and should reflect the ideas and beliefs of the pd.

In my over 15 year marriage, my H has literally come and gone as married bachelor, guys trip, golf that lasts 12 hour days, coming home reeking drunk, been laid off multiple times so I have been the sole breadwinner for YEARS, and if I so much as left the house past 5 pm, I would be questioned as to where I went, who did I meet, why was I dressed up, who was I dressing up for, why did I have make up on, it took me YEARS to realize he was accusing me of cheating with that rhetoric...Also, that rhetoric sets you up to JADE to them, Justify, Argue, Defend or EXPLAIN yourself to your PD spouse, NEVER JADE COLONEL...never JADE..In a home I solely pay for I would be groveling, oh I just wanted to look nice, oh I met Sally, we went to dinner...so what eventually happened, is I STOPPED going ANYWHERE. 

If I went out he would text constantly or FaceTime me, it took me YEARS to realize this was a way to harass me, check up on me, see where I was on FaceTime, want my attention all the time.

Eventually, going to girls night, wasn't worth it, wasn't worth me having to JADE to this unemployed drunk in my house..he won because I stopped doing anything, or going anywhere but the grocery store or to my son's sports practices..(until a year or so ago, when I started going WW3 when he asked me where I went..).  I am actually not a push over, and he was just lucky I put my sons above myself when I didn't fight back originally.  I grew up with parents fighting, and I didn't want that for my kids..so I stuffed resentment - until I didn't...

In my 15 year marriage I have never asked where he went, who was he with, who was he dressing up for......this man had the longest leash on earth...and still wanted to try to imprison me in my own home (that I SOLELY PAY FOR/he is currently extremely underemployed/cannot afford to contribute to my home) he stays underemployed to hold me hostage further by playing the sad victim and trying to be another one of my dependents, not a real man who can stand on his own two feet, forget providing for the children, he can barely contribute to heat bills, and electric, groceries.  This is also a man that that just one year ago at 48 years old, turned his 30 year high school reunion into a 3 day drinking event starting on a Thursday lasting until Sunday am culminating at coming home at 4 am..saying none of the spouses went, it was just us guy...

So, without hijacking, I gave a few examples of what the PD spouse does.  I want to tell you Colonel, do not expect your spouse to make sense.  Everything is 'fair' for them, nothing is fair for you. 

If your secondary wants to go NC with your spouse that is absolutely up to them, your secondary owes your spouse NOTHING.  Also you do not owe ANYONE an explanation if you leave your spouse, divorce happens EVERYDAY...no one actually cares.  It might be gossip for 2 minutes until someone else comes along to chat about..its your life..

I turn 50 in a few months, and I can tell you this; I have wasted enough of my life on my PD alcoholic attention seeking mope of an H, and I will not cater to it, will not allow it ANYMORE..a month ago my friend opened a store (bad timing with covid) but she went ahead with it.  She invited a few of us ladies to a socially distanced opening, I told my H I was going, and he started to try to force me to have s*x with him IN ORDER FOR ME TO BE ALLOWED OUT OF MY OWN HOME.  He started harassing me in my own home, he said if you go out, I want to have s*x by this weekend, and I said no.  I am not asking you if I can go to the opening, I AM TELLING YOU, and ME LEAVING MY OWN HOME is NOT conditional on having s*x with you.  I have barley spoken to him since.  We have slept in separate bedrooms for 10 years as his drinking got more and more OOC..

Hopefully I can get him out of my house soon....50 is a big birthday and covid has made me realize, I am not being locked down by ANYONE, ever again..and I am also not keeping the peace anymore.  He gets peace, he gets what he wants at the cost of MY sanity and autonomy...that's a hard no...

So, think about this, peace for your spouse comes at what cost to you and is it worth it..the her she was back then, was a mirage..the real her is now..

[colonelgraff]

Borderlines are especially prone to blacl and white thinking, all or nothing exoectatiins, need to be center of attention constantly although notbalways in a gregarious way. It can be through manipulation and intrusion on all aspects of the partners life.  Calling, texting, interupting, leaving a list of stuff to do for them to occupy your free time when they are absent and on and on.

Black and white thinking? Yup. And I get accused of being the one doing black and white thinking to boot. For a while I thought I was the one who needed to widen my perspective. All or nothing? Yup, that too. My spouse screamed at me for forgetting to take out the lint from the dryer one time while doing the household trash. Doesn't remember doing it, either. Most of my "these emotions you exhibit are concerning to me" moments are ones they conveniently don't remember. Center of attention? One time I forgot to thank her for cleaning the bathroom. Sulked for days before snapping at me at how thoughtless I was being. Loves getting credit for things she did (or didn't do) more than anything else.

Those were things that I could handle when they were external to me and relationships that were important to me, but as the locus of control shifts from her friends to my family and me, it gets pretty intolerable. Not any more though. I've always struggled with confrontation and have a placating nature, shifting my focus from cleaning up others' messes to supporting myself. Realizing that I've been doing all this work to keep The Peace instead of keeping MY peace.

Also, that rhetoric sets you up to JADE to them, Justify, Argue, Defend or EXPLAIN yourself to your PD spouse, NEVER JADE COLONEL...never JADE.

Too late on never JADE  .

I've definitely lost the high ground several times. I own that--I've done things I regret, shouted, shut down. It was illuminating to me in therapy to explain how my journey had gone from trying to understand the pain and anxiety, to trying to bargain with it (Surely my dad didn't mean THAT conclusion you got to), to being angry at it and shutting down and yelling, to finally having panic attacks of my own.

When I saw what was happening to my psyche, I said no more. I will not tolerate this any more. My therapist helped me find a framework that explains my spouse's behavior, which led me here.

You're right. I'm young. My marriage has had positive moments that I can look back on without anger and disappointment still. I still have (most) of my sanity. It's time to have my lines in the sand matter, and if they don't matter to my spouse (which I have no illusions that they will), then I need to have enough self respect that they at least matter to me. My spouse is very high functioning. Holds down a good job, can maintain friendships (until they don't anymore), has stopped drinking, has a good diet, works hard. It's tough having the waking up moments given that context, especially during the holidays, and at the end of the day it may feel like things are both moving too fast and too slowly. But at the end of the day, the changes that my partner has made haven't changed the core of how they initiate, escalate, and respond to conflict, and they have repeatedly told me that they don't agree that they have any role or responsibility in how bad our conflicts go. It's always 99% caused by me (or 80% or some other arbitrary number that's always in my spouse's favor). No matter how many times I say that I can't have our conflicts be focused around blame, but instead we need to talk about how to grow closer together, it's back to the mantra that I still caused most of the issue, so why should I get to set the rules, or why are we talking about things that are important to me instead of all the things I have done wrong.

do not expect your spouse to make sense.

Yup. Once I started taking this approach I'm much less frustrated and angry. Just sad for them and myself.