Mom has BPD. Undiagonsed

[brazil3259]

Hi. It is difficult to even start writing this post. I guess I'm coming here because there are few places in the world that seem to understand personality disorders.

I'm in my late 20s, and I'm pretty sure my mom has BPD. I have an older sibling, who has mostly set strict boundaries with her and is not frequently in contact with her. So a lot of the emotional support falls on me. My older sibling says I need to create really strict boundaries too, but I worry. My mom doesn't have a good financial situation and so I really am a support system. During the pandemic, for a variety of reasons, my mom has had to stay with me. Normally she's lived alone but hasn't been able to get back home (another city).

Some weeks go really well--and then suddenly something will set her off. Recent example: This past thanksgiving, we were supposed to have a meal with my partner. I came home from my partner's house later than anticipated, and so my mom refused to have a meal with my partner and me, throwing a fit. Now she thinks it's my partner's fault, when I'm the one who was obviously responsible. She can't accept that though, and blames him.

The pandemic has definitely introduced a new level of stress. She doesn't have a support system where I live, so she gets frustrated when I'm not available to attend to her or don't include her in plans with my partner or a friend. I don't know what to do--obviously I want her to get help and find support, but it's very difficult to convince her.

We're gonna try to go to therapy again, for the hundredth time. I hope she commits to it. I go to therapy myself and, it's helpful but obviously sometimes it feels like my therapist is a bit overwhelmed by the stories of PD.

Any advice that's realistic is welcomed. Should I practice more "medium chill"?

[bloomie]

brazil3259 - hello there and welcome to Out of the FOG!

Thank you for being courageous and posting about the ongoing issues with your mom. It has to be very conflicting and confusing to be living with someone you hold dear who can flip on you so unexpectedly and who relies on you for things that you actually have no control over.

I believe my own mother was undiagnosed (u) BPD. I too, felt responsible for her, when she would spin and go off the rails over the smallest perceived abandonment, and I realized well into adulthood I was groomed to be responsible for a full grown adult as a child and young adult.

It logically makes no sense to make a child or young person responsible for such serious and long standing mental health issues and after coming here I learned that behavior is called parentification and there are many more traits that are common with PD people in the glossary and the PD traits info in the drop down menus above.

The toolbox is a great place to read through and develop simple strategies for your life and a great place to start. There are great book recommendations and other online resources listed in the forum boards here:

Book Reviews: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?board=26.0

Other Media Resources: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?board=45.0

For me, the first huge hurdle was speaking out about the troubles I was experiencing in my relationship with my own parents. I always knew some things were off and that our family life was dysfunctional and toxic at times, but I loved my family so much and felt incredibly disloyal even speaking up in a support group setting. But, as I began to do so I found that what can be mentioned and named can be dealt with and healed within myself. I have a truth to tell and a story that is mine and important to own.

It is hard to hold opposing truths about anything or anyone at the same time. I loved my mother AND I feared and resented her overtaking of my otherwise happy life with her serious problems that needed a team of highly trained professionals to help her with.

Beginning to name the issues and finding that her behaviors were not unique and that there are strategies and tools I can use in my relationship with her that will help, was a huge relief. Surrounding myself with a small group of people who 'get it' like a therapist (T) for me alone, a couple of trusted friends, and the community here at Out of the FOG has been key in helping me grow and heal after living for years waiting for the next outburst of damaging exchange.

Understanding engulfment-enmeshment has been a huge eye opener for me and learning how to set reasonable, appropriate boundaries around what does and does not work for me is key and is sentinel work for most of us here.

I have also learned to look at two key things when faced with something that in the moment - when faced with the heightened emotions of another - seems to be an emergency, but which in reality may not actually be an emergency - I have learned to ask myself: "What is mine to do?" and then when faced with the expectations of others: "Is this something I agreed to do?"

Learning where I end and another begins helps me to understand what is actually my responsibility.

Learning to question another's expectations of me by asking if I ever agreed to do what they are expecting has been a significant cornerstone of a healthy view of myself and others. End of the day, even if I had agreed to something and it is no longer working for me I can change my mind because I am a complete, whole individual with the human right to choose my own path and responses and to utilize my time, energy, financial and emotional resources in ways that I deem best for me.

And yes, I can even choose who I live with, spend time with, what times I come and go, who I love, and give of myself too.  I can live independently, with boundaries and a life of my own choosing, and still love and respect a broken mother.

The 3 C's mantra is a goodie and I will just leave it right here for you:

"I didn't cause it. I can't cure it. I can't control it." https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/the-3-cs-rule

Keep coming back and sharing on the boards. Read the posts of others and engage as you are able. Take in the insights and support available here. We welcome you!

[SunnyMeadow]

Hi! I'm glad you're here 

I'm sorry you're in this situation. I was just the same as you in my late 20's. It seems I was the emotional support daughter.

My most heartfelt advice is to detangle yourself from your mother as quickly and thoroughly as you can. She can (and will) find someone else to get her narcissist supply from. I was so enmeshed that I included her in everything even when I had children. Every holiday, frequent lunches and dinners, outings with my children. Guess what? She's still around causing chaos and drama to anyone who will listen, especially me. I was way too deeply programmed to tend to her so I couldn't dump her. I SO MUCH WISH I WOULD HAVE! 

If I would have been more dull, boring and didn't talk to her all the time I wouldn't be still doing this in my 50's. Now she's in ill health and in her late 80's. I don't think I can go NC at this point. Please don't be me.

Be more busy with work, your partner, life, stuff. When she asks, be busy. Don't reply right away, definitely use medium chill and gray rock methods. When you become less responsive and not interesting, hopefully she'll move on. Be like your sibling and set strict boundaries and not in frequent contact. You don't have to provide your mother any emotional support if you don't want to.

Another thing, I don't know that counseling with her is a good idea. In fact, I'm almost sure of it.  She won't change and if the counselor tries to get her to see your point of view, the counselor will end up in the same boat as your partner. She will throw a fit and blame the counselor. Ultimately, this will end badly for you. Please don't go for the 100th time. 

I'm so sorry she is living with you. Please try everything you can to get her back into her own home. I would do whatever I could to change her living situation.

Bloomie makes some good points about the 3 C's, learning where I end, what is mine to do and more. My mom would complain about something and I'd take that as my cue to jump in and help solve it for her. When she actually just wanted to complain and martyr herself over it. I have backed away and it feels much better.

Please keep posting here. We all get it.

[Starboard Song]

Welcome to Out of the FOG!

Run, do not walk, to our Toolbox.

There, you'll find tactics that work and things to avoid. You'll find definitions and patterns that will help you see that you are not alone. And on the What To Do page of the Toolbox, you'll find these great things:

• Boundaries - These are going to be your friend
• My Stuff/Your Stuff - Understanding that her being upset, confused, or deranged is not your issue, as long as she does it somewhere else
• The 50% Rule - You are responsible for half of what goes on in a relationship (this is a hidden call to action, really)
• The 51% Rule - Always take just a little more care of yourself that of others
• Medium Chill and Grey Rock - Solid bedrock stuff

Boundaries, at the genius level, are incredible. They do not circumscribe the behavior of others. They are a statement of what you will or will not do, or engage with. In a sense, then, they are an expression of our morality, and they preserve space in which we can thrive. They need never be announced even: you just do them. When we are confident in our boundaries, we execute them with calm authority. They don't always work. A boundary can be made non-administrable by an incorrigble antagonist. Or we can find that, because of the situation, they cannot be enforced without resorting to a nuclear option. I go on at leangth on boundaries because I think that, like learning to play guitar, you can get a good start on boundaries in an hour, but can spend a lifetime mastering the skill. This depth of power is sometimes overlooked, due to the simple moniker.

So much good strength to you.

[brazil3259]

hey everyone. thank you so much. I teared up reading these things.

one question I have. I'm not sure how to react to her recently. she got mad at my boyfriend (I'm gay and she accepts gay people but she definitely is a little weird). but she got mad at him recently cause I spent the night before thanksgiving at my bf's place. I came home the next day and I came home later than expected--we were supposed to buy groceries. I apologized, but she obviously blew up, and seems to have blamed my boyfriend. she has this image of him as super controlling, but he's not. we just see each other 2-3 times a week, which to her seems controlling cause she just wants me all to herself.

tonight we got into a nasty argument, I gave in when I shouldn't have. she was saying hurtful things about him and I didn't know what to do or how to react. she told me all the ways he's a horrible person, and she blew up. it was pretty awful. anyway now she says she never wants to see my boyfriend. she claims that he tells me to kick her out of my house, etc.

how do I react when she does this? do I just leave? I just literally have no idea how to react. and obviously it's super hurtful, and it's hard not to care. we are Latin American and in our culture family is really important, so it hurts to hear her say she never wants to see him again.

and, what do I tell him? I feel so bad overburdening him but I also feel bad not telling him anything when shit hits the fan cause my mood definitely changes.

[Starboard Song]

tonight we got into a nasty argument, I gave in when I shouldn't have. she was saying hurtful things about him and I didn't know what to do or how to react. she told me all the ways he's a horrible person, and she blew up. it was pretty awful. anyway now she says she never wants to see my boyfriend. she claims that he tells me to kick her out of my house, etc.

how do I react when she does this? do I just leave? I just literally have no idea how to react.

and, what do I tell him?

There is a lot going on, here. Interacting with someone like this challenges us to remain our very best selves. Please know that I understand that. It is hurtful to hear these things, and you are right to feel hurt. Let yourself feel that hurt, and process it. Don't think you have to pack that away.

But here's the deal: when we feel unthreatened, when we feel in control, when we feel confident, we rarely get into nasty arguments. Other people may still do so at us, but we don't engage with that. The last time I spoke to my FIL, 2 1/2 years ago, I got tired of the phrase I had to keep calmly repeating "That is nothing like what [   ] wrote. I can read to you the correct words directly from the email now." and "That is an untrue statement. Why do you believe it to be a true one?"

I don't mind admitting that, yeah, I raised my voice a little, several times. But never called names or anything: a transcript would have read like a college professor interviewing a madman.

Think about how you'd respond to the most boring suggestion possible. "Do you think it would be worth it to spend $5,000 on bushes for the yard?" Totally boring, right? You might pause a second, to make it clear you thought about it. Then, if you were speaking to a young child, you might answer as a complete sentence, "No, I don't believe spending $5,000 on bushes would be worth it." There is nothing to argue about: you are not arguing. You make true statements with detached, professorial resolve.

I don't mean to prescribe exact words, but the best way to say what I mean is role-playing:

"Mom, it is not true that he wants me to kick you out of the house." -- completely calm. Not offended. Not angry. Not defiant.

If you need to engage, I used this with success, "why do you believe he wants me to kick you out of the house?" Then, whatever she says, "Oh, I see. Don't worry. That's not true. That didn't happen, and he doesn't want me to kick you out of the house."  And last, "Tell you what, I've explained the situation, and I really am unwilling to discuss it further. I can tell that you are really focused on it, though, so I am going to give you some space now, and we'll talk again later when you are ready."

Again, be yourself: I really do talk like that. So you talk like you. But if you are ever so calm, you'll be stronger. And your goal is not to make her change her mind. If she wants to be wrong to herself that's fine: you will no longer listen to it, or engage with it.

You probably need to let your bf know about the issue. He probably should know this isn't a bigotry thing, but a personal issue she'd have with any competition. You are right to want to avoid too much detail, but he deserves to understand you, and -- if the relationship is serious enough -- you deserve a partner with whom you can trust these matters of heart.

Boundaries can help you maintain a relationship with M. Your culture isn't wrong to highly value family, but we must always apply our own oxygen mask first.

Be strong. Be good.

[SunnyMeadow]

To me this sounds like your mother is trying to isolate and alienate you from your partner. This is a huge tactic my mother uses and quite successfully I will say. She has alienated my step dad from ALL of his children and grandchildren. It's absolutely disgusting but he went along with it. I think it was easier for him to discard all these family members inside of standing up for himself to keep them in his life.

My uNPDmother makes not-too-nice comments about my daughter occasionally to try to make me think she's a bad person! They have no shame. As if I'd choose a mean, waify, angry mother over my own sweet daughter. I see through her stupid games, stop the conversation and just leave when this happens now. She hasn't been saying these things since I started shutting her down.

She sees you are starting a new life with your partner which means she won't be your main focus. Don't let your mother get away with this. You could address it head on and tell her she's being hurtful and you won't hear anything bad about your partner, then if she continues ... leave. It's ok to let her see you're serious about this topic. Once you start seeing the games they're playing, it's easier to stand up for yourself.

She says she never wants to see him again? I'd tell her "that can be arranged but you won't see me either".