Having a hard time

[lightandbreezy]

After years of being with my partner, I'm finally starting to see all the underlying dysfunction in the family very clearly and suddenly so many things make more sense.

One of his siblings is so incredibly emotionally draining & over the top that they always seemed like an anomaly in the family, the only one showing obvious signs of PD and making me wonder how they could be so different from my partner, the other siblings and parents. While others in the family could be a bit frustrating at times, they seemed very functional with very human flaws.

Cut to many years later where I am by chance spending more time with my partners parents without his siblings present and without the dominating presence of the aforementioned sibling, I am now seeing so many glaring issues, coupled with the parents telling detailed stories of extended family that reveals there is all kinds of mental illness on both sides.

They are not bad people or the kind of hardcore PD that my uBPD mother is, but there's definitely strains of narcissism, emotional distance, and enabling going on.

I feel kind of stupid for not seeing this as clearly before considering all the years I've spent COOTF regarding my own family.

I think I wanted to believe I had escaped that kind of environment. And while they are better than my own parents, they are not nearly as healthy as I have believed them to be for all these years.

I am just feeling sad and in one of those moods where it seems like there is no escape from all this stuff.

[Leonor]

Hi L&B,

Welcome to the forums.

Please don't be so hard on yourself for coming into awareness of the dysfunction in your ils. I've been there; it took me many years of deep healing work to come to a place of peace with my own foo, during which I actually looked forward to spending time with my ils as a relief, a more "normal" family than my own. Now, almost two decades later, I have had to come to terms with the less overt, but just as severe, dysfunction in my ils.

It has helped me to think of healing as a coming to a gradual awareness, and expanding my own awareness. It's a journey. I once had a wonderful t. who described CPTSD to me and I asked, "Is it chronic?" I wanted to hear "No, it's acute" -- something that now seems ridiculous, but at the time gave me hope that one day I would be "over it". Instead, she threw up her hands in the air and said, "Leonor, life is chronic!" Well, life is chronic, but healing is never-ending. And with each day of healing, the pain recedes.

Sometimes people say that two persons from dysfunctional families get married to re-create that dysfunction, or that dysfunction is generational and somehow inherited, like DNA. I think that two persons from dysfunctional families get married to heal themselves and one another. Just as two people might unconsciously "sense" the woundedness in the other, I believe they also unconsciously sense the potential to heal in the other.

It might be nice to be able to wave a wand like Glenda the Good Witch and declare everyone all Nice and Normal now, but that's not how I've seen it work. If you've come to this awareness before your dh, it can feel uncomfortable to be out of sync. But you'll find lots of friendly, kind, wise and caring people here to support you and reassure you that you are not alone.

Welcome to the forums!

[BettyGray]

LightandBreezy ,

Yes, the longer you are part of a family, the more their dysfunction comes into focus.

I never thought my in-laws were perfect, but they were sooooo much better than my toxic FOO that I was cool with just a bit less dysfunction. DHs parents had a messy divorce 37 years ago & they're still weird around each other when they have to be at some grandchild function or something.

When I met DH, both of his parents had remarried (both new spouses turned out to be horrible people). There were clear rifts and resentments but there were as still love.  MIL and FIL always put their children first - even after divorce.

Over time, and after much therapy of my own, I began to study family systems, patterns of dysfunction , personality disorders. In observing his family dynamic, I felt like I was watching a scientific study. As you mentioned, more started to make sense.

I noticed the codependence, parentification of DH by both parents, triangulation, passive aggressive behaviors, etc. He still has fleas but he is way more aware of all of it because of my experiences. It's helped him put up boundaries. We went to counseling together, too which helped.

But he has a long way to go. I am more compassionate now of what it was like for him growing up. We understand better how our childhoods determined our relating styles, how trauma formed our coping mechanisms, how our brains work differently, and how to communicate better.

Something that was a game changer for us was my therapist's recommendation of the book "Getting the Love You Want"  by Dr. Harville Hendrix and Dr. Helen LaKelly, which introduced us to Imago Therapy.

There's also a workbook that we each had to complete over a period of 6 or 8weeks. Some of the exercises felt kind of stupid at first. I wanted to give up. Surprisingly, he wanted to complete it. It turned out being much harder for me than for him. In the end, it was so very helpful in getting each of us to understand not only how to communicate without fighting, but also to put ourselves into one another's childhood experiences. Highly recommend.

You mustn't beat yourself up. That thinking sounds like fleas leftover from your PD family dynamic. Scapegoating yourself out of habit is very destructive. Eventually your brain won't work that way.

Plus, people are very good at performing and preserving their roles within the family system, sometimes with no conscious acknowledgment.  Pair that with the in-laws putting on a good face for new family members, especially if they are super charming. They hide their pathologies well. Even the most adept at picking up dysfunction can be fooled.

The concept of  the "good enough" parents, childhood, siblings, etc. is covered in this article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201512/the-good-enough-parent-is-the-best-parent%3famp

I found it enlightening and hope you will, too.

[Lauren17]

Hi LightandBreezy !
I had a similar reveal a few years ago. My in-laws are very toxic and the dysfunction is glaring whenever I am with them. I saw my husband as the anomaly. How did he turn out so normal?  One day, I realized he didn't escape.
Like you, I felt stupid for not seeing this before.
As Leonor says, getting Out of the FOG and recovering from injuries is a long process. For me, part of that process has been learning to forgive myself. I sometimes have to tell myself, out loud, that I made the best decision I could with the information I had at the time.
Good luck and keep posting.

[Hilltop]

Its really hard to see.  I did not see anything until I was married and then it was like being hit over the head with a shovel.  Once it was clear to my MIL that I wasn't going to sit in the corner quietly it was on and remained that way until I walked away four years later.  It is frustrating as I would have loved to be married into a loving warm family and I thought that was what I was doing.  When I think back I see some signs I should have walked away however at the time I just didn't have all the information to be able to assess properly,  I have to forgive myself.  Now MIL's family has imploded and I have just shrugged, that was her life and her family. In my life I have decisions to make and I choose to try to find healthy relationships that are kind and warm.  That is my journey. 

Leonor I love this part you wrote about you therapist,  "Leonor, life is chronic!".  So true, the healing doesn't just happen and it's done, it's a journey.

I feel like I married my DH because he was familiar to how my FOO operate.  I really didn't understand the dysfunction back then. DH was emotionally distant and I think I found comfort in that.  It is what I was use to. Now as I look at my dysfunctional FOO and dysfunctional in-laws I realise I have to accept it and move on from that.  I feel I have to work on what I can which is my marriage and then form other relationships and friendships which are healthy for me.  I am not going to change any of it and now want to protect myself from further hurt and damage.  The wiring of the brain is so interesting and I take comfort in the fact that I can re-wire myself which in essence is what healing is.  It does take time though.

So the effort I make now is changing how I communicate with DH.  I have really started asking him how he feels more and he does respond positively to this. Before I wouldn't really question things or even think about how he was reacting to things. We had a lot of surface communication. I am noticing how I detach at times or when I am feeling off and I am starting to question this.  I figure I can work on creating a loving relationship with DH that has more depth.  I am working on myself which hopefully will help our marriage become closer and I am working on maintaining friendships that are healthy.  As for the rest, well 20 years later they have not changed and so it's time for me to accept those FOO relationships for what they are.

You can escape, your life is your own, you choose who is in it and how much time and effort you invest in those relationships.

[spha6092]

It's not just you, I totally relate!

I've been married for 12 years and it's only this year under the pressure of having two kids that I finally realised the true nature of my MIL and even my DH. I never understood my DH as being anxious, but now I see it so clearly. I feel like a bit of an idiot that I used to think he was the most mentally well person I knew! There is hope for us but it has been incredibly confronting to re-evaluate our entire relationship and history, seeing how he has never ever stood up for me.

My family are so overtly disordered and I had worked that out a long time ago and went to therapy, put up boundaries etc - that I didn't notice that my MIL is actually so similar to my narcissistic dad. Well, actually we had noticed over the years how they seemed a bit similar in unobvious ways, but I hadn't noticed the control and abuse issues until recently. But now it's crystal clear and frankly, even a bit frightening, because through our struggles recently my SIL has become pretty abusive towards my DH so she's a total flying monkey.

Anyway, it is sad, all of this stuff. And just so exhausting. Take care of yourself. At least you see things now and you already have all the tools you need from the work you've done with your own family.

[Pepin]

They are not bad people or the kind of hardcore PD that my uBPD mother is, but there's definitely strains of narcissism, emotional distance, and enabling going on.

I feel kind of stupid for not seeing this as clearly before considering all the years I've spent COOTF regarding my own family.

I think I wanted to believe I had escaped that kind of environment. And while they are better than my own parents, they are not nearly as healthy as I have believed them to be for all these years.

This....so much.  I sincerely believed that DH's family would give me a little bit of what I didn't have.  I was completely wrong.  This took years to uncover despite missing red flags.  Or perhaps I ignored those red flags because I was in denial about the new rabbit hole I was venturing down.

Little by little, these red flags added up into something big and scary for me.  I can no longer deny the division within DH's family and how it is all orchestrated by PDmil.  She is the most covert narcissist I have EVER met.  Some of this is also cultural.  And I have a very hard time with this believing that she is laid back and unlike others of her culture.  She behaves the same way but wears a mask rather than being out with it.  This has damaged me to my core.

All along I thought DH was an honest and good man.  He has lied to me about who he is.  Sadly, he is enmeshed with PDmil and I cannot believe I missed this.  I am heartbroken for my marriage and I am furious and saddened for myself being in the middle of this. There is a strong possibility that I will make an exit from this marriage as I cannot see how it is possible for me to continue under these demeaning conditions.  I feel that I already endured enough with NF and a horrible childhood...motherless, too.   I cannot live the rest of my days being unhappy and being surrounded by badly behaving people like this.  I don't know if DH can better himself at this point.

[lightandbreezy]

I really appreciate all the responses. I'm feeling a little silly about this vent though, as it seems many of you are really struggling with your in-laws and my complaints don't seem as bad comparatively.

I guess I should clarify that I don't think my in-laws have PD's, actually, but both of THEIR parents sound like they did, and I think a lot of toxic behavior and fleas are present in them because of that.

The main issue is that I feel frustrated and drained around them a lot of the time because they monologue a lot, hardly ask questions, or engage in conversation with any kind of comfortable flow. There's a lot of mythologizing of the fathers side of the family and the father in particular can be quite narcissistic - talking AT you about random things, or his family history. He is actually very smart and talented but the relentless spewing of all the random facts he knows is quite tedious.

Neither of my husband's parents (but mostly his father) leave much room in conversation for interjection and it's not uncommon to be talked over. They also seem to gloss over serious issues and avoid vulnerability. There's a lot of story telling going on, which is where the emotional distance comes in. They share a lot about themselves but don't ask much about others or try to make a real connection.

Basically, now that I truly see this side of his parents, my SIL, who does actually seem to have a PD, makes way more sense to me. She is the most attention seeking, energy sucking person I've ever known. If she's around, it's her show and everything is dominated by her.

My husbands anxiety and self-esteem issues make way more sense now too. I used to wonder why he was such an anxious person considering he grew up in what seemed like a very supportive and stable environment.

I do think there *was* plenty of support and stability, but his father's narcissism, even if not at full on PD level, is enough to make anyone feel like they may not be good enough!

My husband and his brother are lovely people who have some issues with depression and anxiety, while his sister is someone who's difficult to spend more than a few minutes around.

It's interesting to connect these dots after all this time. His sisters intense energy takes over everything so the similar traits in his parents weren't as obvious until I started spending more time with them outside of the big family gatherings where SIL was present and a lot of other stuff was going on.

His parents are not disrespectful or mean spirited, but his sister can be passive aggressive, moody, and lashed out at times. She is the real issue, so I feel kind of bad complaining about his parents. At worst they are obnoxious and a bit withholding emotionally.

I suppose I was just feeling a bit sad that I don't feel very connected to them even though they are welcoming on the surface. It would've been nice to finally feel close to a parental figure. However, I am thankful that they're mostly kind people who mean well overall. I am trying to keep a reasonable perspective while acknowledging that they have more issues than I previously thought.

[BettyGray]

Pepin,

I am so sorry to know you are still suffering At the hands of your MIL. I have followed your story for a few years now. I know right now you are overwhelmed by so many emotions. Sadness, confusion, anxiety. It hurts so much more because these kind of PD in laws never give you and your DH  a chance to grow as a couple. Her presence is too large. She is an expert manipulator. And sometimes that hold is just too strong over our partners. You are correct in that you do not deserve this much pain. I am so sorry - I feel like they make the decision for us sometimes. It's just not fair.

I can't remember if you and your husband went to marriage counseling. It helped me and my DH a great deal.

Wishing you a path to peace this year.

[BettyGray]

L&B,

I am in your boat. My in-laws aren't cruel, but they flirt with PDs. I think it's just a lot of fleas. A LOT. From what I gather, both MIL/FIL had pretty PD sounding parents. From what I gather, there were some strong personalities these great-grandparents had. I never met the men, but oh - the stories! FIL's dad was a very accomplished pilot in the 1920s, flew with GHW Bush and also was a Naval Commander during WWII, and Chief of Police in his town. So an authority figure for sure - the stories I hear sound like although he was lovable and funny, he also sucked the air out of the room. His wife was passive, obedient, and doted on their only child - my FIL. My FIL definitely has the "could never outshine his dad's accomplishments" thing going on. They were both disciplinarians though.

My MIL's parents - passive father, authoritarian mother. I met her and she was the boss in the family. She was vivacious and very talented, but expected perfection from her children. MIL is the 2nd of 4. Her GC oldest sister (DH's aunt) is a serious narcissist - her kids are all screwed up. They fit the patterns of dysfunction, though: GC oldest son who can do no wrong, even though he's a real f-ck up. Middle child - overaccomplisher, perfectionist, loud, domineering, but stays on mom's good side. Youngest kid is the scapegoat, with a lot of mental health problems. Mom pits the kids, especially the daughters, against one another. They don't speak.  The parallels in my family to DH's aunt's family are uncanny. Oh - and my narc Mom LOVED the aunt.

My MIL is the most anxious person I have ever met. The insecurity is astounding. And she expects so much of her kids, especially DH. She's not a bad person - in fact, she is quite generous, and clearly loves her kids, but she drives them absolutely crazy. They're both very anxious people. FIL is not a bad person, but he is extremely selfish. Neither really seem too interested in me when I start talking. I think they both love me, but they're not too interested in my life. I don't take it personally, I just think that they are immature and emotionally stunted.

Part of it, at least I think, is generational. Silent Generation got married when they were practically children, had babies right away, women didn't work while raising their kids. Because they came from the kind of family environments they did, and never really grew as people on their own, I believe that they're kind of in arrested development, emotionally speaking.

So while there is a bond there, it isn't based on any kind of deep connection. I have realized over the years that they show their love in different ways. They welcomed me into their family with open arms. It just took me being part of it for many years to figure out the dynamic. DH definitely has the codependent fleas of his mother - nothing ever good enough, can't relax, feels responsible for everyone and every body, so he puts himself last. He hid his insecurity behind a lot of bravado for years (they always talk about how much he is like the pilot grandfather), but he is super-insecure about a lot of stuff.

The good thing is that after being married to me for so long, going through hell with me and my PD family, etc., he is aware of their shortcomings and has put certain boundaries up that were never there before. He'll stand up to either one of them if they push his buttons too much, but feels a strong sense of obligation to them. Now that they're older and one is sick, guess who is getting sucked right back into a regressive role? They've been divorced for about 40 years, so I also think there is a bit of that "stuck in the middle" for DH. The court made him choose which parent to live with - how awful. He picked dad, even though dad was the main reason the marriage dissolved. I think he still feels guilty for not choosing his mom. Always trying to make it up to her in some way.

I'm sorry to hear about the sister. Jeez - sounds like a rough sister in law to have. What is the birth order in their family? I think birth order can definitely play a role in personality development. It's interesting to see the pieces all fit together. Seeing similarities in other people's families makes it a little less personal.

Don't be hard on yourself. It's ok to vent about people who frustrate you. You're just being honest and observant.

Also, try your best not to compare others' experiences to your own. All experiences here are valid, no matter what level the abuse. I did this for many years with my nutso family - thinking, "oh, it wasn't that bad" - until I realized YES, it was that bad. Amazing how easily brainwashed we all were, thinking our pain doesn't matter. It does. It's real. Just let out whatever you need to here - there's no judgement, only acceptance, support, and love.

I consider this forum part of the FOC I've managed to cobble together over the years. It is certainly one of the most meaningful. But part of me will always long for a truly close family who knows how to value and communicate to one another. I get so sick of other people's issues....playing out family roles, not getting help for mental illness, no self-awareness....it's all so exhausting.

Not to sound braggy, but I (and I think everybody here on the forum) am more emotionally intelligent and aware/mature than anyone I know in real life.
DH is pretty good, but I think there are too many fleas for him to ever examine himself thoroughly.  I think it is hard for us because we have been through things that really strengthen awareness and so not finding a peer in the real world can be really sucky. Thankfully you're all here!