Can siblings who went NC after a smear campaign ever be un-brainwashed?

[JustKathy]

For those of you who lost your siblings after a smear campaign, I'm wondering if any of them ever figured out what happened and eventually came back, or is the brainwashing permanent. (I'm not planning on contacting either of my siblings, but it's more of a curiosity.)

In my case, my GC brother is nine years younger than me, so we never had much of a relationship to begin with. I'm not sure if there's no contact because of my Nmother's smear campaign or if it's because he just never knew me.

My sister is the one I wonder about. She's only a year younger so we were closer (as close as we were allowed to be, anyway). I was the SG, my brother the GC, with sister being a sort of secondary scapegoat who probably became enmeshed to avoid any drama. She sacrificed her life to please my mother. My brother and I both went to work in the entertainment industry, but sis went into the medical profession at Nmother's insistence and was miserable in her work. She never married or even had a boyfriend. To my knowledge she only ever had one date (in her late 40s) and my parents teased her so relentlessly she never dated again. I only know about this date because my enFather called me up and laughed that "your ugly sister finally got someone to take her out." When they retired to another city she took another job and bought a house two doors down from them. I mean, they owned her. As adults, I only saw my sister at holiday gatherings. She seemed terribly unhappy and was always arguing with Nmother.

I eventually went NC with my mother. Not long after I went NC she was diagnosed with terminal cancer and everything changed. GC bro and I were disinherited, and sister became sole heir. She also also turned into a clone of my mother and went NC with me after my mother died. She now guards my elderly father, waiting for her inheritance, which will be his house, two doors down. I doubt that will bring her much happiness since she'll be completely alone after he dies.

I'm sure she went NC with me after a smear campaign, but I'm also beginning to see that her power tripping behavior as the new GC may be rooted in jealously of my brother and I for the lives she thinks we had. Her Facebook page is full of lies about her once having a career in entertainment. She posts screen captures of movies with claims that she was cast in the film but her scene was cut out. She's posted photos of herself posing with my father's Emmy Award as if it's hers. It looks like there's a lot of resentment over Nmother stealing her dreams from her and denying her any happiness. She of course has NO idea that I was abused, and how badly, and that the life she thinks I had wasn't so great.

This is becoming a long post to get to the point, but I wonder in a case like that if the person is truly brainwashed in the way a cult member would be, or if they still has the ability to reason. If my sister were given articles from professional publications on triangulation and narcissism would a light bulb ever go off? I have no plans of ever doing that, but it's something I wonder about.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Hi JustKathy, I'm new to NC so I honestly have the same questions as you. I'm also target of smear campaign and wonder if they'll ever get uncomfortable with the accusations and ideas that have come up...which I can only assume are getting worse, now that I've cut off contact, as if that would just "confirm their suspicions." I already know the imaginations of the central PD in my FOO are running wild.

Or maybe it would wake some of them up from the cultish mindset, seeing how far it's gone? I really don't know.

[Miss Kay]

My toxic mom split our family in half many years ago.  My brother and I were the scapegoats and she told lies on us, smeared our reputation, and made the other siblings think we had done all sorts of horrible things to her when none of it was true.  But, they sucked up to her for various reasons, maybe they believed her, maybe they just didn't want to suffer the same fate as us, but they fell in line and pretended we did not exist.  Crazy mom died 2016 and we (siblings) have not been around each other since.  Then, the one brother that I was close to died a year ago this week.  My sister came to the funeral but the other two remaining brothers did not.  She acted all friendly toward me like nothing ever happened so who knows where she stands right now.  I don't see us ever reconciling but I do think she has had time to think about it.  Without our mother's influence, I would hope she realizes our mother is the one that destroyed our relationship but honestly, I really don't care at this point.  I've moved on and simply don't need their kind of drama.   

[Stardust1982]

My intuitive answer is a big NO. My siblings have been brainwashed and I see that they truly believe what my PDs said about me while I was NC. I met one and went for a walk, he said that I exaggerated by going NC and I shouldn't have done that. Ha ha. Poor little brainwashed child.
I am DONE with my siblings and everyone.

BUT this does not mean other siblings in other PD fams cannot have a relationship. In our case, we were brought up to be against one another and either ignore or neglect each other, compete against each other or hate each other. I think this is textbook.

[Stardust1982]

@JustKathy
And your sister..boy what a story she has. Not sure if I should feel sorry for her or not. But about sending articles on narcissism. I would advise against that. Take my example. I sent plenty of articles about narcissistic mothers to both my brothers, they seemed to agreed but later on they said I am labelling too much and I should just drop 'the hate' I have against our parents and move on. This is textbook trauma bonding-they cannot see the damage inflicted on them. I believe it is a matter of being more prone to brainwashing-and my brothers are just that. Very vulnerable to manipulation and abuse. I was too but thank god I had a childhood friend whose family served as a 'shelter' from the narcs. I also had therapy early on and was helped with the brainwashing. My siblings never had long-term therapy and were in the same toxic circle of friends all their lives. I don't think they've ever seen some healthy and loving behavior. Thus, the brainwashing.

Your sister might be the same. She has never seen love, healthy and mature behavior in people. She never even had a relationship (that says a lot about her self-esteem) so imagine you asking her underdeveloped emotional self to get the point of view that your parents were abusive and has destroyed her life (if she accepts this truth, she'll need to do a loooot of grieving and she may not be ready for that).

Hope this helps. I wish things were easier...Not having the validation of the PD abuse from a sibling is painful, so I get that.

[JustKathy]

@JustKathy
And your sister..boy what a story she has. Not sure if I should feel sorry for her or not. But about sending articles on narcissism. I would advise against that. Take my example. I sent plenty of articles about narcissistic mothers to both my brothers, they seemed to agreed but later on they said I am labelling too much and I should just drop 'the hate' I have against our parents and move on. This is textbook trauma bonding-they cannot see the damage inflicted on them.

Thanks Stardust1982. I'm not going to send my sister any articles. I was asking as more of a hypothetical... just curious if any of these smear campaign victims are ever figure it out. I know if I was to send my sister anything it would only validate what she was told by my Nmother, that I'm manipulative and vindictive. She's now 59, so probably a lost cause. She's gone that long without knowing what a normal relationship feels like, so I don't see her coming back from that. She was also very cruel to me when NM died so I have no interest in resuming a relationship with her now.

I've never heard the term "trauma bonding" before, but I think it's dead on.

I have considered contacting my brother's wife (my SIL) to see how bad the damage is with him. My Nmother hated my SIL and removed my brother as GC because of her. He was also disinherited specifically because NM didn't want my brother sharing any inheritance with "that woman." I figured out that after I went NC, my mother blamed my SIL for my absence at holiday gatherings. She was apparently telling people that I was having a feud with SIL and was refusing to come over for Christmas because of her. It gave NM a very believable excuse. And of course, my poor brother believes that I hate his wife when I barely even know her.

I really appreciate everyone's replies here. It does sound like it's easy to brainwash someone who was completely enmeshed, and like most brainwashing, it would require a LOT to reverse the damage (if it's even possible).

[JustKathy]

Crazy mom died 2016 and we (siblings) have not been around each other since. 

My Nmother died in 2015. EnFather is still living (though quite elderly), so I think my sister will remain in her little world until he dies. After that, she'll have time to think about things, but who knows what will go through her heavily brainwashed mind. Like you, I've moved on and don't much care if I ever see her again. I feel sorry for her because she has health problems and will end up alone, but she chose to stay in a bad situation so she could be the GC and get her stupid inheritance.

I'm glad my parents weren't wealthy and no one will be fighting over millions in inheritance. My sister can have their house. I wouldn't want it anyway. It's a creepy house of misery. No thanks!

[BettyGray]

JustKathy,

Trauma bonding is definitely something to look into. I had never heard of it before my therapist taught me about it.
Also very enlightening is attachment theory. Thankfully, there are so many good books to help us put together puzzle pieces in understanding the "whys". Each contain not only useful information for dealing with our own traumas, but also provides a sense of validation to our mostly- ignored pain.

I have always believed in educating myself about everything I could find related to family dysfunction, personality disorders, types of abuse, psychology, and more recently, trauma and its effect on brain-rewiring. The newer the research, the more fascinating it gets.

Self-help books are good, but I think learning the science behind these subjects just as important. In a way, it depersonalizes the pain, while simultaneously providing reasons for what

I have considered contacting my brother's wife (my SIL) to see how bad the damage is with him. My Nmother hated my SIL and removed my brother as GC because of her. He was also disinherited specifically because NM didn't want my brother sharing any inheritance with "that woman." I figured out that after I went NC, my mother blamed my SIL for my absence at holiday gatherings.

"That woman"  That is a contemptuous, provocative statement. I got something similar along the lines of "I don't care what THAT BOY thinks." DH was 27 at the time, before we were married. She never liked him. No matter how good he was to her, he was still THAT BOY . An outsider, not to be trusted.

Nmom was like that with anyone who threatened to steal her children away from her. She succeeded in every case except mine. For awhile I had a SIL (GCbrother's wife) to whom I related better than my own uBPD sister. We were kind of scapegoats together. Eventually, she wised up and divorced him and my crazy family. She remarried & moved on with her life.

Sounds like after she could no longer scapegoat you,  she turned and aimed her target at SIL. While also keeping you in the drama.

Mind-exploding stuff. PDs create tangled webs and ensnare as many unsuspecting souls as they can. It's like they cast a spell that no one can break. If it wasn't so depressing and scary, it would be fascinating to observe.

[blacksheep7]

Hi JustKathy,

I can only talk about my experience with my foo.  I am the second eldest of boy, girl, boy, girl.  I am the only one nc with the whole foo following the intial nc with my NM.  My brother just 15 months older walked out of our lives in his early twenties.  Moved around the country because of his work and sometimes wasn't very far.  He never called, not even on my birthday or the holidays and I thought that we were close in our teens, I would always cover for him.  We saw him about five times in 35 years.  Ok, he's free to live his own life and I understand bc he left home at 17, a altercation with Raging NF.  But no calls and now he's back like glue and has a problem with alcohol that I didn't know of.  I knew of other addictions.

He came back when his wife (was my bff) died of cancer.   To make a long story short we had fun the first year and then I realized his traits of narcissism.  He always had contact with his in-laws', showing me pictures of his nieces and nephews but made to effort to get to know my kids.  My ds even wrote to him by email when he was a teen, bro never answered.   Our relationship went bad to worst and I decided nc.  That's when NM started he emotional blackmail, smearing etc.

I don't think they will change.  They are the type to not rock the boat and they continue the dysfunction.  I heard that they were intimadated with me when I started coming Out of the FOG.  Their past is behind them, still in them buried by addictions and or antidepressants.  They're busy with their foc which is enmeshed!   I lost contact with several of my neices.

Ignorance is bliss.   They are stuck in a trauma bond, especially my sister and nm.

I'm wating for NM to pass and only then I will reconnect with the youngest, my sister.  We got along fine before but she doesn't have the capacity to understand as she says, «I feel stuck in the middle».  She had epidsodes of Depersonalization  because she was about five years old when NF was at his height in violence.  She remains medicated.

I'm not interested in my two brothers.  One acts like NF did and the other, gc is enmeshed now with NM.

[JustKathy]

"That woman"  That is a contemptuous, provocative statement. I got something similar along the lines of "I don't care what THAT BOY thinks." DH was 27 at the time, before we were married. She never liked him. No matter how good he was to her, he was still THAT BOY . An outsider, not to be trusted.

Oh, it gets worse. When my enFather would call me he only ever referred to my SIL as "the witch." That's how I figured out that she was being blamed for my absence at family gatherings. EnDad called one year and said, "It's safe for you to come for Christmas. The witch won't be here." When I was disinherited my sister notified me by email and told me that my brother had also been disinherited to make sure "the witch" didn't get any of their money. The poor woman who wins the affection of a GC son just doesn't stand a chance against the narcissistic mother.

Thank you for letting me know about "attachment theory." I'm going to research that one as well.

[JustKathy]

I'm wating for NM to pass and only then I will reconnect with the youngest, my sister.

Hi blacksheep7, I had hoped for the same. I saw how unhappy my sister was when NM was alive, and really thought we could reconnect and have a relationship after she died. Instead, my sister became our mother and gained complete control of EnFather. I just never saw that one coming.

[GettingOOTF]

I didn't experience a smear campaign as such, more that I was the SC my entire life and my siblings learned how to treat me from my parents.

I don't think I will be able to have a relationship with my siblings while my father is still alive. One lives with him and is 10 years younger than me so we've never been close and she is deep in the fog.

On some level my middle sister sees through the FOG but she can't accept that it's FOG. My family thrive on "DRAMA" and my father has cast himself as the victim so my sisters will protect and defend him.

For me my family system is so complicated and dysfunctional that I don't think it's possible to sort through it and get us all healthy. I think there is a chance of some kind of relationship with my middle sister at some point but I think the damage was done when we were given our roles as young children.

[blacksheep7]

I'm wating for NM to pass and only then I will reconnect with the youngest, my sister.

Hi blacksheep7, I had hoped for the same. I saw how unhappy my sister was when NM was alive, and really thought we could reconnect and have a relationship after she died. Instead, my sister became our mother and gained complete control of EnFather. I just never saw that one coming.

Wow, so sorry for your experience.  It is a heartbreaker when we don't expect it.
Actually I'm not sure how it will be for me.  I think she will be welcoming because her own dd told me that I was her only friend.  Asks about me. I am the older sister that always looked out for her. 

Happy New Year to all

[JustKathy]

Wow, so sorry for your experience.  It is a heartbreaker when we don't expect it.
Actually I'm not sure how it will be for me.  I think she will be welcoming because her own dd told me that I was her only friend.  Asks about me. I am the older sister that always looked out for her. 
Happy New Year to all 

That's really encouraging news, especially if your sister asks about you. I do hope things go well and you can eventually reconnect. It's so sad that we have to wait for our PD parents to die so we can get our siblings back.

Hope you have a Happy New Year too!