DH declined caregiver support

[Pepin]

DH visited PDmil on his own yesterday.  He told me after he returned that she offered to pay him for all that he does.  At the moment, her estate will be split evenly amongst DH and his siblings.  But PDmil feels that he should be compensated now and still get an equal share of the estate when she passes.  I agree, he should be compensated. 

Unbelievably, he said no to her.  I am actually a little disappointed with DH as a result of his response.  He. Has. Done. So. Much. For. Her. over the years....while his siblings are free to do what they like with their lives.  I literally feel like I sometimes am not married, especially when DH suddenly starts spending ridiculous amount of time with her to get her "to do" list taken care of.  This has been an annoying and depressing dynamic within our marriage - that my husband is the favored one that gets everything done for a woman that doesn't want and hasn't wanted to do any of it. 

As I have mentioned in previous posts over the years, I have known PDmil since she was DH's current age and I was (and still am 25+ years later) floored at how helpless she was.  I cannot imagine my own husband today, at his age, operating at the level she was operating at his current age.  Apparently DH has been that subliminal glue and support for her over the years.  And there are so many excuses that are made for her...which contradict all the praise he has for her.  Complete trauma bonding scenario.

So yes, I am angry that my DH doesn't get compensated for his time.  His siblings just don't understand (or maybe they do and don't care)- regardless that some live out of state.  Believe it or not, the phone gets many things done.  Ugh.

ETA What is PDmil up to with an offer like this?

 

[SunnyMeadow]

I agree with you and your PDmil, dh should be paid. Why not? Especially since the estate will be split evenly.

His siblings could be relieved that he does all this for their mother; then they don't have to think or worry about it. It would be nice for you if your dh started passing along some of these tasks to one of his siblings. Spread the fun around.

[Poison Ivy]

My ex was paid by his parents for being their caregiver. I don't know whether this would have been done if I hadn't insisted. My feeling, which I expressed to my then husband, was that if he was spending four days (and eventually all days) per week at their home and wasn't looking for other work, he needed to treat the arrangement like a job, including by getting paid for it.

[Pepin]

Wow, I didn't anticipate replies so quickly and was regretting my initial post thinking that I was coming off as greedy.  Rather, I wish DH would set boundaries with PDmil so that he would spend less of his time with her and more with our family -- rather than be compensated monetarily. 

Is it true that his siblings are likely relieved for all that he does?  Sure they are!  This is why they get to do the things that they like and want to do without being bothered.  Apparently, DH is the only one that doesn't see the dynamic in play here: that his FOC is paying the price while he thinks he is being superman.  At the same time, this has been extremely confusing for me: is he really a GC, SC or a combo?

How do I insist to DH that he be compensated and what is fair?  I might have to start researching caregiver forums for this unless any of you know.

[Poison Ivy]

IMO: 1) My ex's siblings probably were very relieved and grateful that he took care of their parents and probably would have been willing for him to be paid even more than he was for his services.
2) It's a good idea for there to be a caregiver agreement between the person receiving care and the person providing care. This is significant for avoiding Medicaid-divestment problems. My ex did not have such an agreement with his parents because his father refused to put the arrangement into writing.
3) It's a good idea for the caregiver to be paid by check. This makes recordkeeping easier. My ex was not paid by check because his father refused to do so; he wanted to keep things under the table (exact words of my ex, and I believe him).
4) My sister is our mom's primary companion; she doesn't exactly need a caregiver but my sister does serve in that capacity to the extent it is needed. My mom doesn't pay my sister, but I would be happy for her to do so. I and my brothers are very grateful for our sister being our mom's primary person, especially during the pandemic.

[SunnyMeadow]

ETA What is PDmil up to with an offer like this?

The first thing that jumped out at me... if he receives payment, he won't stop doing for her.

I could see my uNPDm offering this too. If I pay her, SunnyMeadow will surely keep on doing all I need and more, and she should because I'M PAYING HER!

[Seven]

What is she up to?  Control. She’s using money to control your DH.  From my perspective, if he takes that money, he is at her beck and call.  “Well, since I pay you, you need to do this and this and this!”  Big NO if this is the case.

My situation is a little more complex than yours. Lots more siblings, multiple scapegoats.  Absolute 3-ring circus.

GC Bro5 gets “paid” just for existing.  He’s absent from everyone’s lives for 20 years, has lied and manipulated for money from all family members throughout that entire time, and since being divorced from his uBPDx only does stuff for mom because of the money.  He’ll take her grocery shopping, she gives him money.  He sorts her meds for the week, she gives him money.  He watches TV with her for an hour, she gives him money. The rest of us would never take a dime for doing things.  He just basically takes her money. My situation is the opposite of yours.  Our siblings are like “if she gives him money then he should do it”, instead of your situation of “if he’s doing it, she should give him money”

Now, on the flip side UNPDm, who is now being diagnosed with whatever type of dementia she has, is living with Sis2 (until at least the end of the month.  She’ll either be in MC or nursing home by Feb 1).  Should Sis4 (moms POA) give Sis2 money for taking care of mom, or gas to doctors appts, “rent”, food, etc?  ABSOLUTELY! By all means!  I have absolutely no issues with that.

If your DH is doing things for free that other people would normally be paid for (ie taxes, home repairs, etc)  by all means he should be paid.  If it’s everyday mundane stuff like “spend time with meeeee” and she’s just making up reasons for him to be there, then you’re right, he shouldn’t be there at all and should be focusing on FOC.

I guess what I’m saying is look for her motives.

[Poison Ivy]

I will clarify. I didn't want my ex to be his parents' caregiver. I wanted him to stay at our house, look for a job for which he was trained, and start to earn a decent income again. (He was fired from the two other jobs he held as an adult and had long stretches of unemployment.) But it was clear to me that he was going to be taking care of his parents (mom with Alzheimer's disease, father with lots of illnesses), so that is why I requested that he get paid. I also requested that he seek additional help, either from his siblings or from nonfamily sources. He occasionally did but not very often or very successfully. It was a pretty bad situation. But the money wasn't what kept him there.

[Pepin]

ETA What is PDmil up to with an offer like this?

The first thing that jumped out at me... if he receives payment, he won't stop doing for her.

I could see my uNPDm offering this too. If I pay her, SunnyMeadow will surely keep on doing all I need and more, and she should because I'M PAYING HER!

This is EXACTLY what my gut is telling me.  I think this is a trap because my DH likes money.  And why shouldn't he like money considering that he grew up poor?  However, I do not think that getting paid to be at PDmil's beck and call is a meaningful way to add to our income.  DH already has a M-F salaried position in addition to a side hustle that will eventually allow him to retire from his M-F job.  These two sources of income already require enough of his time.

DH is POA and his siblings know this.

The things that DH has done over the years are clearly things that a regular person would pay for.  He has been her accountant for YEARS.  He helps her with banking, bill paying and preparing for taxes.  He helps her with her mail and I have no doubt that she may hiding the fact that she is illiterate.  She seems to understand numbers but is unable to read words or understand what she is looking at unless there is a picture....like with coupons.

What is she up to?  Control. She's using money to control your DH.  From my perspective, if he takes that money, he is at her beck and call.  "Well, since I pay you, you need to do this and this and this!"  Big NO if this is the case.

If your DH is doing things for free that other people would normally be paid for (ie taxes, home repairs, etc)  by all means he should be paid.  If it's everyday mundane stuff like "spend time with meeeee" and she's just making up reasons for him to be there, then you're right, he shouldn't be there at all and should be focusing on FOC.

Home repairs and accounting.  He also coordinates paying for home repairs.  Recently he got her a new roof.  She then asked for the gutters to be cleaned.  He didn't want to do it and had them replaced instead because they were so gross and old.  She didn't want to pay but he did it anyway.  He got her garage painted; he helped with a sewer issue even though it involved hiring people to fix it.  He has dealt with numerous electrical issues, satellite TV, cell phone, appliance, furnace/AC, etc.  He helped with kitchen and bathroom remodels.  He has helped with landscape care but drew the line when it came to weekly lawn mowing.  He does no yard work at our house, why do it for her?  That's my job. 

The issue I have with everything he has done is that they are all things she could arrange on her own.  But, she wants him to do it to save money.  She HAS money.  What she doesn't understand is the TIME involved to get these things done - as if my husband is her personal handyman that has up until now, worked for free.

As I work my way through this I am firm that I don't want DH to take money from her.  I want him to set boundaries with her.  If he spends time with her it should be meaningful time -- not "fix it" time.  I am tired of my husband being used like this.

The next question though is why is he being used like this?  Because his mother is manipulative, waify and it fills a void for him.  It beings him attention and separates him from his siblings.  It gives him an identity whereas before doing all these tasks, he went unnoticed.  Praise is earned by getting things done and he does.

No doubt his siblings are happy that he has taken the reigns.  They get to sit back and wait for their promised inheritance while their brother does all the leg work.  If they wanted to help, they would.  DH's sister begrudgingly handles the medical portion of caring for PDmil (because she is female) and DH doesn't approve of it....and the few times he got involved, he was upset and annoyed that he had to accompany his mother to a medical appt.  His sister though, is another story...also highly manipulative and married to what we all consider a "dangerous" narcissist.

I really feel like my DH's hands are tied.  Believe me, I have tried to plant as many seeds as I can.  I asked DH why his siblings aren't more involved and he said: because they don't know how to do things as well as I do. 

[Poison Ivy]

Pepin, I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this situation. I hold my late father-in-law partially responsible for the destruction of my marriage (my ex partially, too; me a little bit) because of the expectations he had for my ex. I wish my ex had had a spine, but he didn't.

[Leonor]

Hi Pepin,

Oh, I'm so sorry. This is really horrible.

You aren't greedy; you're just a fair-minded person trying to figure out an impossibly unfair situation.

I agree with the other posters that there is something about pds and money. It's never about money. It's always just a chain they can use to yank everyone else around.

As a fellow wife of GC, I sympathize. One day, she'll offer an expensive gift to your dh in lieu of money. Another day, she'll sign everything over to him. The next day, she'll decide there's a sibling who needs the money more and rewrite her will. Then she'll say she feels guilty for giving that one sibling more and ask how she should divide up her money. The next day she'll get religion and give it all to charity. Then she'll go into a punishing funk because fil mentions that to dh that their account is running low.

That's *my* mil, btw. Sound familiar?!?

If mil were healthy, she would use her own savings to hire help and her own attorney. If your dh were healthy, he'd refuse POA and offer to hire someone to help her.

But they're not healthy. It's so exhausting.

It doesn't seem as if they are receptive to your opinions though; if you agree they feel validated and if you disagree they get defensive towards you.

   

I'm sorry.

[Pepin]

One day, she'll offer an expensive gift to your dh in lieu of money. Another day, she'll sign everything over to him. The next day, she'll decide there's a sibling who needs the money more and rewrite her will. Then she'll say she feels guilty for giving that one sibling more and ask how she should divide up her money.

Oh she has already been playing these games!  She is always looking to buy things for DH and this happens when he tells her what we are buying for ourselves.  Example - new appliance for kitchen.  DH tells her we need a new appliance and found one and shows it to her online.  She whips out her check book and writes him a check for it.   . DH tells her we are getting some landscaping down and she wants to pay for it.  Thankfully he tells me about her offer and I forbid him from taking that kind of money saying that PDmil would need to give his siblings the same if she paid for our landscaping.  For Fs sake DH and I are MORE than capable of paying our own GD bills.  I don't want HER money attached to anything related to our home or vehicles.  ZERO.  It is a ploy.  Every so often when I used the kitchen appliance, I am reminded of the fact that she paid for it....though DH went ahead and bought a better one and therefore we paid the difference.  HA!  But still....it is disgusting how they use money for their own personal gain.  She just wants to be able to tell everyone how she uses her money...  Anyway, I told DH after this that he absolutely must ask me first before taking any monetary gifts from her. 

I'd rather take her money after she passes and use it our discretion without having it be attached to her...   No wonder I am on BP meds....

[Hilltop]

If she is paying him then he has to be there, has to do things for her and has to come when asked.  I think unfortunately your DH believes her when she tells him that he is the only one that can do things right.  Enmeshed, co-dependent yep they have bonded via trauma.  Your MIL probably knew already that he would refuse the money but she looks very generous by offering it.

I don't think your DH is going to change now, he is programmed to help her and it appears the guilt of not helping is too much for him.  In some ways perhaps this is something you may have to accept about him.  You say your BP is high.  Have you considered taking time out from this and spending 6 months of self care on yourself.  Not worrying about him, not worrying about MIL, taking care of your health, put aside time for new hobbies, make some plans for yourself on the weekends.  What if you took some time to take care of yourself, sometimes distance can give clarity.

How old is she?  Does she have many years left?  You cannot change either of them, neither of them are healthy.  What if you just dropped the rope for a while and concentrated on yourself?

[Pepin]

Your MIL probably knew already that he would refuse the money but she looks very generous by offering it.

How old is she?  Does she have many years left?  You cannot change either of them, neither of them are healthy.  What if you just dropped the rope for a while and concentrated on yourself?

Yes, PDmil definitely knows that she "looks" generous....but when one looks closely at her they can see that she hardly cares about herself.  She is in her early 80s....moves slow and doesn't do much of anything outside of watching TV - which she has been doing for years.  Has health issues but chooses to ignore any of the healing protocols that have been offered to her.  Tries things for a little while until she feels better and then stops -- and then the issues return and she complains that nothing works!  Yeah, one of those kinds of complainers....

This past year I have actually pulled back quite a bit.  But I still get triggered because I am mostly floored at what PDmil comes up with.  In many respects I have detached from DH and that in itself has brought about feelings of grief that I have to contend with among other things and I think that is what is causing my BP to shoot up.  *sigh* 

[Hilltop]

I'm sorry, its such a tough thing to deal with.  Being older she's probably going to get a little worse in the coming years until you get peace.  Unless she has to move into a retirement home or nursing home which may stop a lot of the chores.  At this late stage I would think it would be impossible for your DH to step back.

That will be me in another 10 years, my MIL is the same, the only thing I can think to do is just keep busy with other things.  I'm hoping that resentment won't kill the marriage.  Hugs.

[Pepin]

Being older she's probably going to get a little worse in the coming years until you get peace.  Unless she has to move into a retirement home or nursing home which may stop a lot of the chores.  At this late stage I would think it would be impossible for your DH to step back.

Yes...this is what my gut tells me.  I feel like I really don't have much of a choice and that I am a quietly watching.  I will be so happy when she moves into a nursing home...because her house will be sold and DH will be free of the responsibility of her residence.  And sadly, it would be the only time that they actually get to spend meaningful time together that doesn't revolve around a task.  *sigh*

I really feel like I am at a place where I am just spinning my wheels.  Caught between a rock and a hard place...screaming on the inside while trying to be sympathetic to what DH has been subject to and continues to be subject to.  How it is that I couldn't foresee this?  When I look back over the years I see that it was totally impossible for me to have known.  When FIL passed, it was like one day the sheet just hit the fan and my DH became the man of the family without even consulting with me.  And it was then that I knew he had one foot firmly planted in his FOO and a tentative toe in his FOC.  It made me feel used and replaceable.  And that just wasn't the frame of my mind that either of us were in when we met.    

[Poison Ivy]

One of my late father-in-law's goals in having his oldest son (my ex) as his and mother-in-law's caregiver was to avoid having to move into a nursing home. He succeeded in that goal. This despite the fact that father-in-law had many serious health problems and mother-in-law had Alzheimer's disease and couldn't walk, feed herself, dress herself, or do her own toileting for the last few years of her life. My ex provided all this care, in his parents' house.

[Pepin]

One of my late father-in-law's goals in having his oldest son (my ex) as his and mother-in-law's caregiver was to avoid having to move into a nursing home.

I think that PDmil is rallying hard for this.  She saw her own mother in a nursing home after a stroke.  In reality, she should have died but had a pacemaker and lived another truly horrible few years staring at the ceiling fed by a tube.  The reason for keeping her alive against her wishes is another PD story however...

But yes, no doubt that PDmil is scared to death about having to move out of her home.  That being said, she can afford a better nursing home that what her own mother had because her mother had no money and half of her house was seized to pay for it.  PDmil was not very good at visiting...because it meant that she herself wasn't getting attention.  She sured loved the attention she got though when anyone inquired about her ailing mother....because you know how concerned and sad people get...

The money thing....PDmil had this idea to put her bank account into DH's brother's name so that if something happened, the money couldn't be taken.  This woman is so terribly afraid of parting with money for her own health.  She will do whatever it takes to get the State to pay and look like a martyr for giving it all to her kids -- which of course comes with a catch: take care of me if you want the money!