Does anybody gaslight themselves?

[finallyOOTF]

Does anybody here gaslight themselves? Like you know things won't change, or the way you are being spoken to is unacceptable, but for some reason you start rationalizing it? Back in the day my parents told my sister (SC) and I (GC) that our father wasn't actually my sister's biological father. My sister was a rebellious, loudspoken, backtalking teenager at the time, which obviously never goes over well with a parent with suspected NPD and I assume this news was to hurt her, or somehow try to drive us apart, or make her feel isolated. Well recently my sister and I did an Ancestry test  (we were late to understanding NPD) and the results came back she is 100% his kid. When I confronted them, their response was "Well that isn't how I understood it." and "What was I supposed to do, DNA test her?". Even as I type it out their responses sound inappropriate, and yet I will catch myself rationalizing it with things like "Well, they didn't know. Maybe I am being too sensitive." I guess this is all a healing process and I definitely have my work cut out for me. I am just wondering if other people experience this self-inflicted gaslighting too?

[ShyTurtle]

When you're raised by a pd parent, you can get some really maladaptive core beliefs about things which change how you think about yourself, and also make you doubt your own thoughts and beliefs. I don't know if it's considered gaslighting yourself as much as maladaptive thinking patterns in general.   For example, one of my core beliefs which I got from being raised by my mother is that my thoughts and ideas weren't worth anything...she constantly dismissed every thought and idea I ever shared with her. 

With loads of therapy, I've been able to reparent myself and rewrite those maladaptive core beliefs and feel more confident and competent in the world. I hope you are able to move past this fog for yourself too. (Not constantly second-guessing everything anymore is liberating!)

[Janeite V]

I like the way Maya Angelou puts it: when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Often I am tempted to try to figure out why a narcissist does something that seems to make no sense. You're probably right about the motivations for telling the SG she was not his biological daughter. But we can never know for certain; they're simply playing from a different handbook than the rest of us.

But what you are certain of is the general pattern of behaviour. The way I see it, even if the narcissist is genuinely innocent on occasion, they're not victims when people refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's a consequence of their behaviour, and well-deserved at that. The more people who get Out of the FOG, the better for humanity as a whole.

It's likely you were told you were "too sensitive" on so many occasions that it is now a part of your subconscious. It's great you are aware of it now so that you can challenge that false belief.

I am glad that it sounds like you and your sister have each other!

[Hepatica]

Hi finallyOOTF,

I think self-inflicted gaslighting is part and parcel of surviving a childhood with PD parents. For me it is a type of confusion. I feel off-balance, like I am not seeing things the way they are. They really benefit from us feeling this way. We will be less of a threat to them if we are confused and doubting ourselves.

The one thing that seems very clear to me, if it helps you, is your parents sharing this information about "biological father" and using it as a weapon against you and your sister is very strange and cruel. Who is this "biological father?" Why pull this out to torment your sister and drive a wedge between the both of you, making one sister more a part of the family and the other not? It's quite lacking in empathy, and also if they didn't know, why did they behave so certain? What were they trying to do other than divide and conquer?

But for us to gas-light ourselves about things, means we've spent years around false narratives that will make us unsure of things.  It works to their advantage. And it's hard to confront an abuser or leave an abuser if we are not sure if what we are thinking and feeling is true.

It's one those insidious forms of mental stronghold they try to use against us. My uNPD father is a master at it, as is nearly the entire side of his family where all the disorder lives. They will do anything to make people in the family doubt the reality.

Even with everything I know, I sometimes feel fuzzy and confused and I have to ask my Dh to give me a reality check, or write a list of things that have happened and are happening now, that to anyone outside the family would be considered very off. It strengthens my reasons for going NC and staying NC because I am certain that my folks are not changing. Thank goodness I finally came to that certainty.

[finallyOOTF]

When you're raised by a pd parent, you can get some really maladaptive core beliefs about things which change how you think about yourself, and also make you doubt your own thoughts and beliefs. I don't know if it's considered gaslighting yourself as much as maladaptive thinking patterns in general.   For example, one of my core beliefs which I got from being raised by my mother is that my thoughts and ideas weren't worth anything...she constantly dismissed every thought and idea I ever shared with her. 

With loads of therapy, I've been able to reparent myself and rewrite those maladaptive core beliefs and feel more confident and competent in the world. I hope you are able to move past this fog for yourself too. (Not constantly second-guessing everything anymore is liberating!)

Thank you for this reply! I think you probably hit the nail on the head with the phrase "maladaptive thinking patterns". I am so glad that therapy has helped you and that you aren't second guessing yourself! Rediscovering yourself is a wonderful thing 

[finallyOOTF]

I like the way Maya Angelou puts it: when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Often I am tempted to try to figure out why a narcissist does something that seems to make no sense. You're probably right about the motivations for telling the SG she was not his biological daughter. But we can never know for certain; they're simply playing from a different handbook than the rest of us.

But what you are certain of is the general pattern of behaviour. The way I see it, even if the narcissist is genuinely innocent on occasion, they're not victims when people refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's a consequence of their behaviour, and well-deserved at that. The more people who get Out of the FOG, the better for humanity as a whole.

It's likely you were told you were "too sensitive" on so many occasions that it is now a part of your subconscious. It's great you are aware of it now so that you can challenge that false belief.

I am glad that it sounds like you and your sister have each other!

Thank you for the reply! You're right about them playing from a different handbook. There are rules that I'm sure we are not even aware of haha. I like your perspective of them not being victims just because a person refuses to give them the benefit of the doubt. That is the perfect way to think about it. I was told I was too sensitive all the time and I am trying to challenge it whenever I feel myself falling into that trap again. I am very lucky that my sister and I have each other, it helps to have someone with you that went through it too. We can validate each other or fill in memory gaps, or simply just call up and vent! Thank you again for this insightful reply! 

[finallyOOTF]

Hi finallyOOTF,

I think self-inflicted gaslighting is part and parcel of surviving a childhood with PD parents. For me it is a type of confusion. I feel off-balance, like I am not seeing things the way they are. They really benefit from us feeling this way. We will be less of a threat to them if we are confused and doubting ourselves.

The one thing that seems very clear to me, if it helps you, is your parents sharing this information about "biological father" and using it as a weapon against you and your sister is very strange and cruel. Who is this "biological father?" Why pull this out to torment your sister and drive a wedge between the both of you, making one sister more a part of the family and the other not? It's quite lacking in empathy, and also if they didn't know, why did they behave so certain? What were they trying to do other than divide and conquer?

But for us to gas-light ourselves about things, means we've spent years around false narratives that will make us unsure of things.  It works to their advantage. And it's hard to confront an abuser or leave an abuser if we are not sure if what we are thinking and feeling is true.

It's one those insidious forms of mental stronghold they try to use against us. My uNPD father is a master at it, as is nearly the entire side of his family where all the disorder lives. They will do anything to make people in the family doubt the reality.

Even with everything I know, I sometimes feel fuzzy and confused and I have to ask my Dh to give me a reality check, or write a list of things that have happened and are happening now, that to anyone outside the family would be considered very off. It strengthens my reasons for going NC and staying NC because I am certain that my folks are not changing. Thank goodness I finally came to that certainty.

I love your idea of writing a list of things that aren't normal to bring yourself back to reality. It is absolutely confusing and makes a person feel off-kilter. I guess if we are uncertain of what we believe ourselves, how are we qualified to doubt them. It is a never-ending cycle and feels like a twisted game. Being aware and reminding ourselves that our feelings are valid, and feelings inherently cannot be wrong, is important. My DH also gently reminds me of these facts. It helps that you, a third party, sees the weird paternity information as cruel and unnecessary as well. It helps to remind me that it was not normal or acceptable. I am so glad you have a solid support system and have come to the realizations you did. NC is a very important boundary to enforce and kudos to your courage, bravery, and dedication to putting your mental health first! 

[Janeite V]

Thank you for the reply! You're right about them playing from a different handbook. There are rules that I'm sure we are not even aware of haha. I like your perspective of them not being victims just because a person refuses to give them the benefit of the doubt. That is the perfect way to think about it.

I was told I was too sensitive all the time and I am trying to challenge it whenever I feel myself falling into that trap again. I am very lucky that my sister and I have each other, it helps to have someone with you that went through it too. We can validate each other or fill in memory gaps, or simply just call up and vent! Thank you again for this insightful reply! 

It's wonderful to hear that you and your sister are a team and didn't let that attempt at divide and conquer work, both the lies about the paternity as well as the different roles you were given.

A lot of us who grew up in narcissistic households do become very sensitive and empathic because we had to continually monitor other peoples' moods and words in an attempt to survive. Survivors can use their sensitivity to notice what others are going through in order to better help them, and to quietly observe red flags in order to protect ourselves and others, and to make stunning works of art.

When people (often narcissists) use the word "sensitive" in a pejorative manner, they're usually talking about the brand of hypersensitivity that narcissists tend to have. It's nothing like what survivors have. Its source is an extremely delicate ego that is based on a completely false narrative that the narcissist has to protect at all costs. It comes out as narcissistic rage at perceived and real threats to that ego.

Another reason why it can be so easy to gaslight ourselves is because it's so difficult to explain to other people who haven't been through it. The things that most affected us aren't always the things that sound really bad to outside ears.

For example, there might be a particularly triggering phrase or name the narcissist used on you continually. But when repeated to others, it can sound like a one-off thing that anyone could say once or twice on a bad day, rather than a continual barrage over our childhoods that truly affected the way we saw ourselves.

And then, there are things that didn't affect us all that much emotionally, but which absolutely horrify people when you mention it. And then you're tempted to downplay it because relative to what you've already experienced, it didn't seem like a huge deal to you.

It can be really mind-bending because depending on what anecdote you use, you might be called "too sensitive" or asked "what's wrong with you? Why aren't you making a big deal out of this?"

[ShyTurtle]

When you're raised by a pd parent, you can get some really maladaptive core beliefs about things which change how you think about yourself, and also make you doubt your own thoughts and beliefs. I don't know if it's considered gaslighting yourself as much as maladaptive thinking patterns in general.   For example, one of my core beliefs which I got from being raised by my mother is that my thoughts and ideas weren't worth anything...she constantly dismissed every thought and idea I ever shared with her. 

With loads of therapy, I've been able to reparent myself and rewrite those maladaptive core beliefs and feel more confident and competent in the world. I hope you are able to move past this fog for yourself too. (Not constantly second-guessing everything anymore is liberating!)

Thank you for this reply! I think you probably hit the nail on the head with the phrase "maladaptive thinking patterns". I am so glad that therapy has helped you and that you aren't second guessing yourself! Rediscovering yourself is a wonderful thing 

Absolutely no problem! <3

[Peace Lily]

FinallyOOTF, I found your post interesting as my own mother did a very similar thing. She told me that my aunt (Dad's sister) did not have the same father as my Dad. I don't believe it and no one else in our family believes it ( I don't know about my Dad as he never speaks his mind). The aim is to try to exclude my aunt, break a bond. My mum is very jealous of her and has spent the years criticising her and how she lived her life. The information apparently came from an aunt who told my mother in confidence before she died - so no one can verify the story. The thing is, she has put a doubt there in my mind. However, even if it is true, even if my aunt was not related to me at all, my relationship with her would not be changed. She would mean the same to me. It is hard to believe that a parent would stoop to these depths to sabotage your relationships. It IS cruel. It is even more cruel to lie to your own child and tell her her father is not her father!
Btw, like you I try to rationalise everything, which has resulted in my parents and others being excused some very bad behaviour. I am trying to kick the habit!