Holiday Sabotage

[Lauren17]

I wanted to share the article below (hope I linked correctly). Debbie Mizra focuses on covert passive aggressives. This is an excellent summary of what I've experienced with both H and MIL.
What she doesn't describe is how to handle these tactics.
I'd like to open up discussion for any suggestions.


https://f69e.engage.squarespace-mail.com/r?m=5fcd5f4056931976db3f6e4c&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elephantjournal.com%2F2020%2F12%2F3-ways-covert-narcissists-sabotage-holidays%2F&w=5c049be7266c079acd7a0ac2&l=en-US&s=zSINnTvKpbklNdzof7jDVrEBvl0%3D

[Janeite V]

Great article. It's so amazing how these oddly specific behaviours are so common among covert narcissists. Point number 2 is especially memorable for me. They want to be the emotional barometer of the entire event so if others are having fun, they try to suck the joy out of the event, often through sulking and silent treatment.

Another common holiday trick is changing their minds at the last minute, thus derailing any plans if they were relied upon in any way. Similarly, claiming they don't like (say) the cake you made but then eating half of it in one go so the people who really do like it don't get any! I suppose this is meant to keep us on our toes and under their control.

If there is some job you can do that politely excuses you from the drama, it can be a good idea to volunteer. For example, if an elderly relative needs someone to drop of social distance food at their doorstep, or if there is a lot of washing up to do. Something that the narcissist has no interest in and probably devalues, which makes them less likely to try to control it.

However, do be aware that your very absence can give them the green light to instigate drama / flying monkeys - especially if they sense you are doing it especially to escape the drama!

[Stillirise]

Thank you for the link!  It makes me so grateful that for the first time in 20 years, I won't be spending the holidays with someone exactly like that. 

In the years leading up to my "escape" from stuxuPDh, I had fully committed to making the holidays magical for my children.  Of course, he was there in the background with his backhanded comments, and his simmering rage, but I did my best to ignore it.  I often proceeded like he wasn't in the picture, or powered through, pretending like he was enjoying himself as much as the rest of us.   Oddly enough, his own FOO actually acted the same way toward him, not giving his complaints or sulking the time of day—like when you ignore the toddler who is acting out.  At times, I remember thinking my joy felt fraudulent somehow, since I had this ill wind at my back, but I kept it up anyway, for the kids. 

This year, even as rough as it's been, my joy and gratitude are genuine.  Best wishes to you all!

[Honey_B]

" Another emotion they use to control those around them is their hidden rage. When you are with a covert narcissist, you can feel the rage boiling inside them, like a dormant volcano that could erupt at any moment. This leaves the rest of the household feeling on edge and emotionally unsafe"



My PD mother would always be right on the edge of a rage attack, you could just feel it boiling under the surface. Which resulted in everyone tip-toeing around her, especially me, because I did not want to set off one of her mad rages in front of my child. This year, for the first time, am NOT spending Christmas with my mother as I am NC now.

[firepoetry]

I thought this was a great article.

I tend to not celebrate holidays, and now that I have a child, I feel the obligation to do so. I notice that I'm starting to feel pretty down and out about it all. Every little thing depresses me. And, then I think about holidays with my narc-Dad and how he sabotaged any light of my life. Looking back, I realize the complete absence of joy. This is because any light or positive thing in my life, he would manipulate and rage.

Now that I know that this is likely the root cause, I'm going to try to figure out how to enjoy these holidays, and not do the same kind of sabotage of my child's life that my dad did to me.

If anyone has strategies, please let me know. Being conscious of these issues is the first step. So, hopefully, I'm on my way.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Welcome, firepoetry, and good for you!!! I hope that in learning this for your child you will find joy for yourself as well.

I'm similar to you, in that I'm motivated by wanting better for my own children. You don't say how old your child is, but I'm guessing baby?

Here's some of my experiences, I hope you find some of this helpful as you get started. I have found the need to balance a certain amount of necessary, "Fake it until you make it," for the children's sake with majorly upping my own self-care and giving myself a lot of room to grieve the things that continually come up. Recovery takes a huge amount of energy! I've been at it for three years now, this will be by third Christmas not in contact with my toxic family. I will say, though, that the work of a Christmas during C-PTSD recovery is not as draining as the work of Christmas as a codependent! The difference is I know why I'm tired and that it's work that's accomplishing lasting good for everyone. Its also a work in progress, always. I've felt the need to get it right NOW to make up for all the messed up stuff from the past, but putting pressure on myself always backfires. If I make a mistake, well there's always next year. It's healthy to model taking mistakes in stride and being resourceful in cleaning them up, but I need to make mistakes in order to do that. So it's all a win!

[Boat Babe]

Unless you are religious, Christmas a big consumer fest imo and tainted with emotional landmines for people with our parents.

You could instead celebrate the Solstice or come up with your own ideas and food to celebrate something of value to you. You could also research Christmas customs abroad and have a play with those. That way there are less triggers for you and you make this time your own again.

Sending Solstice Greetings to you and your family.🎄❄️🌜🌞

[Janeite V]

The narc in our family is doing their absolute best to derail Christmas already with emotional blackmail and arguments. Everyone is really solemn and we might end up having seperate dinners or none at all.

What are some great conversational topics while there is that sulkiness in the narc and fear of narcissistic rage in other participants? Generally I think discussing anyone's life is a bad idea in front of a narc, and lately world events are very divisive. It's always so awkward and silent every year even though I try to come up with distractions and medium chill.

As for creating new traditions, sometimes you might find that the child might have a special moment that might create that tradition for you. When growing up in a turbulent household, it's very difficult to create those spontaneous moments of beauty while everyone is walking on eggshells. But all of us who are recovering must be very good at spotting them all the more for it.

[SparkStillLit]

Right now updh has been lovebombing like crazy, because we were getting soldier daughter home for holidays. She's been here 24 hrs and he whipped a curveball at me out of left field, as they do. He CANNOT let holidays pass. I LOVE CHRISTMAS and am especially happy with her here. Unsurprised to get a zinger. Fake sleeping, silent treatment, really putting one on. I keep leaving the vicinity so there's no one to play to.
Otoh, I am maintaining my same holiday cheer and behaving as if he and his silliness do not exist. I guess if you do not like the holidays, it would be hard to push through that way. He always does something, and nowadays I blow right by that crap. I do my traditions that I think are fun and happy. He has no power over me!😁😁😁😁

[Whiteheron]

Wow, that's a great article. I never realized my xuPDH was covert, but all of those examples happened in our marriage. 
He still tries to sabotage the holidays by filing papers with the court or sending nasty letters through his L. I don't believe he will ever stop. Something in him tells him that I must be under his control...his anger is relentless, and now directed solely at me.

firepoetry - it can be hard, what I did was start out small and each year add a little more, if I can. I take my time, and if something doesn't get done one year, then so be it. Who cares? My kids won't notice (teens), no one will rage, demean, belittle. I tell myself it's ok, because it is and it will be.

[SunnyMeadow]

Thanks for this article! I wish the author had given some tips how to deal with this as well.

My uNPDmother is ramping up the  emotion to control and manipulate the holidays. Covid has got her down so she's really sad and depressed. We've had a nice peaceful few months but I can tell that's coming to an end. She's bound to send me an email of doom, like the really long rambling kind. Dh, my children and I don't do enough for her, don't think about her, she's elderly, nobody knows what it's like to be her etc.

I'm working on how I'll reply and I'm torn about how to do it. I'd like to rip her a new one that her whining and complaining are just getting old but then ... WWIII will break out. I'm thinking of using the "wow, I'm sad you'd write such things to me...the last person who has anything to do with you". I can't seem to ignore her though because it makes me so mad that I feel the need to reply. They are so exhausting.

[Lauren17]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I have as many examples of this behavior as I have years married to uBPDh, plus some extras for anniversaries, birthdays, and Valentine's Day.
From what you've shared, the answer is to not engage, either by removing contact or medium chill. Since NC isn't an option for me this year, MC it is!
Spark, I have DD home from university for the holidays as well. H seems to have roused himself and is making some effort to act like a father. I'm waiting for the payback here. Meanwhile, I'm focusing on time spent with my girls and maintaining my holiday traditions with them.
Janeite, the what to talk about question is a good one. I research odd news ahead of time, so I have a couple of neutral topics at hand. Did you know there are marauding killer whales attacking yachts off the coast of Portugal?
SunnyMeadow, when presented with this types of communication, I try to stick with short truthful replies. "I'm sorry you're feeling that way. I can't chat more now, must get turkey out of the oven. Merry Christmas!"
Good luck, all.

[Fiasco]

What are some great conversational topics while there is that sulkiness in the narc and fear of narcissistic rage in other participants?

There's a great product called Table Topics which is a little box of cards which are all conversation starters. There are a lot of versions and we enjoy them at our house with the kids. Another option is a "this or that" or a "would you rather" type of quiz book. Or pull out a trivia game, just don't bother keeping score while you're trying to eat. It's a great way to pass the time at a meal and have a pleasant (ok as pleasant as the participants will allow) conversation.

[Boat Babe]

I like the marauding killer whales!

[Janeite V]

Lauren17 that is exactly the sort of news story I really love! Thank you for sharing. There are people in my family who will be really interested in discussing that.

Fiasco that's a wonderful idea. Now that I think about it, some of the most successful conversations have been in the form of these sorts of games. 20 questions is also a fun one, but "would you rather" is one we haven't tried yet 

[SparkStillLit]

Omg DD changes "would you rather" and turns it really gross, you CANNOT play it with her! 🤣

[Thru the Rain]

Wow - my in-laws hit all three points with extra trimmings every holiday.

I wish I had known about out or had access to Out of the FOG much earlier in my life, but we eventually went NC with them - not just because of holidays, but because of everything.

The only solution was to not spend holidays with them - but that caused just as much drama, just different drama.

[Bunnyme]

SO TRUE.  It wasnt until I found this site that I realized h is a covert narcissist.  He always made me feel bad, but I didnt think the nbpd label fit because he rarely blatantly called me names.  It was all very subtle, save for a few truly nasty, violent anget moments.   The first point in the article does a great job of explaining how the label can fit.
Sadly, I'm wondering about the illness thing now.  He claims to have covid and had to miss Christmas.  Of course, everyone is going out of their way for him because of it.  I hate to not believe him, but he has cried wolf so many times. There hasn't been an er visit nor covid test charged to our insurance. Maybe he does have it.  I don't know, but he is making me look like a big a$$ for not checking in on him constantly or bringing him stuff.   

[Dollydrops]

Hhm my udnpdh comes to mind in this one. Every year I make sure to spend exactly the same on each if our kids. Every year husband buys a separate gift for the eldest 'golden child' and signs it from just himself. When I insisted he stop, not least because it embarrasses our son, he began buying and hiding away one special gift....just for himself...from himself. Actually signing it that way and 'accidentally finding it' on boxing day when no other gifts were being given out. Thus making the day all about him.
No one could choose TV programmes except him. He would hang around the kitchen under my feet whilst I cooked and then tell guests hed ( been in the kitchen all day) . New years Eve usually had a blow up around 11.00 p.m. so that he could retreat to bed leaving celebrations out of the window. Any other holiday usually started with 'can I make a suggestion' and then a raging argument if anyone tried to make it a two way convo.