Here again...

[froggman]

Hello, I've been here before a few years back at what I "thought" was the height of my life's drama.

Long story short; five years ago my then teenage son was having major suicidal episodes and after seven attempts we found a therapeutic boarding school for him where he seemed to thrive. Because his testing revealed an intensely problematic relationship with his mother she immediately went into counseling and got tested herself revealing the following comorbidities'; BPD, OCD & APD, with the BPD being the most predominant feature. Some disassociation was also detected which is what she has accepted, flat out rejecting BPD was even there in print.

This led me here the first time.

Now the son who we attempted to help is now heading to a mental hospital for the criminally insane, sounds harsh but the fact is he was deemed NGRI for his crimes and is still experiencing schizo/paranoia. My oldest has also gotten help and has almost nearly gone no contact with her mother with whom I still live with our two other small children.

My question; I'm now actively seeking, with the help and guidance of my  siblings, all who've had horribly abusive spouses, the best exit plan in the hopes of constructing a better life for myself and my other two children. The more I read and hear, the more I see that my behavior has become abusive; i.e. My wife's current counselor has stated that my abuse is more passive but still abuse. I rarely engage in any meaningful conversation with my wife because 9 out of 10 times it escalates to an insane level if I am honest at all. I dare not reveal anything I am struggling with or any weakness because it will be used against me; therefore this is deemed the silent treatment.

Should I be concerned about what has been considered my abuse by her counselor and how can I maintain a healthy level of communication with my wife and not open up myself for abuse? 

[Starboard Song]

We've got a counselor saying that your mitigation tactics are themselves abusive.
And you are actively assembling an exit plan, to move on and improve the lot of your young children.

Your question is whether you need to worry about the fact that her counselor has characterized your behavior as abusive.

Your exit plan will probably include seeking custody of the young children, and having any professional call you abusive could impair that in court. Otherwise, though, I don't think you should worry at all about that counselor. The counselor is a counselor for your wife. You know that you've been under deep duress, and are doing what you can to make peace. A counselor is good at having insight, but they are just ordinary people. And this one has gotten almost all their news from an unreliable source.

Move on in peace. For the sake of your exit plan you should consult a good attorney who understands abuse and PD situations, and develop appropriate documentation of what is going on. Your eldest daughter may be willing to assist. Lawyer up soon so that you can plan wisely. And get out a calendar: set a date. You've decided to move on. Letting this linger for a year or two will not help you.

Be good. Be strong.

[SonofThunder]

Hello Froggman,

First of all, i am very sorry you have experienced the hardships in dealing with your BPD wife and also for the stress in caring for your son who is experiencing psychological difficulties.  I will remember you in my thoughts and prayers. 

You wrote A:  "........The more I read and hear, the more I see that my behavior has become abusive..."   

You also wrote. B:....'I rarely engage in any meaningful conversation with my wife because 9 out of 10 times it escalates to an insane level if I am honest at all. I dare not reveal anything I am struggling with or any weakness because it will be used against me; therefore this is deemed the silent treatment." 

I believe there is a very fine line between self protective boundaries and passive aggressive punishment.  For the person who experiences the results of either, they can emotionally feel like punishment.   The real difference is the design and end goal/intent.   I want to say i agree with Starboard Song regarding the counselor characterizing your behavior as abusive and that this counselor is getting info from an unreliable source.   Are you hearing this diagnosis of your actions from your spouse, when she returns from counseling or are you also attending your wifes counseling sessions?  I personally would not trust any info supposedly 'past along' through my uPDw and I would not attend my spouses meetings, as my uPDw would creatively make it all about me, to hide her issues. 

With regard to A:  what resources (that you "read and hear") are you reading/listening, that is telling you your actions are abusive?

With regard to B:  your writing indicates to me that you may want to consider a more diligent use of the toolbox here on Out of the FOG, in order to protect yourself, and limit what kind of information you provide as bait for your BPDw to use against you. 

I also highly recommend the book "Boundaries" by Cloud & Townsend and then focus in on your steady protective goals for yourself, seeking your own personal legal counsel if you are planning to leave.   In closing, I want to say that your younger kids are watching and learning from you as well, so doing all things in a calm, educated and excellent manner will teach them how to handle difficult situations.   Sure, this includes their mother, but it is being done in both boundaries to protect yourself and also responsibility by you in protecting them.   

SoT

[Starboard Song]

 

[froggman]

The book that seemed to lend to my concern I had the problem was referred to me by my oldest daughter; Adult Children of Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson and honestly it was very helpful. I started another book this week with the same Title as this site "Out of the FOG" by Dana Morningstar which has been extremely helpful, shocking really. The jaw-dropping reality of my situation carefully laid out in this book has had my laughing out loud and on the verge of tears. Only departure so far is the fact that I really don't have any meaningful emotional attachment to my dBPD wife any more, it's just too painful.

I learned about "Fleas". I'm not the sociopath, I do have empathy, I can change my behavior... thank you for your replies.   

[SonofThunder]

The book that seemed to lend to my concern I had the problem was referred to me by my oldest daughter; Adult Children of Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson and honestly it was very helpful. I started another book this week with the same Title as this site "Out of the FOG" by Dana Morningstar which has been extremely helpful, shocking really. The jaw-dropping reality of my situation carefully laid out in this book has had my laughing out loud and on the verge of tears. Only departure so far is the fact that I really don't have any meaningful emotional attachment to my dBPD wife any more, it's just too painful.

I learned about "Fleas". I'm not the sociopath, I do have empathy, I can change my behavior... thank you for your replies.   

Froggman, I will assume then that the 'jaw-dropping reality' was both extremely relieving to be know 1. There is a name for the situation/condition you experience with your BPDw.   2. There are very real and effective ways to protect yourself and those you are responsible to protect (kids, elderly, disabled, animals, assets).  3. You are very much not alone in your suffering. 

I have read the Gibson book as well and agree, its well written.  I have not read the latter.  Another fascinating book is 'Stop Caretaking the Borderline and Narcissist' by Fjelstad.   Learned a lot about myself in that book. As well as the PD's in my life. 

Keep us updated on your progress and will keep you and your family in thoughts and prayer. 

SoT

[froggman]

Thank you for your reply.

I started listening to "Stop walking on eggshells" by Randi Kreger and Paul Mason, very helpful. "Out of the FOG" by Dana Morningstar had very useful info but left me feeling mad, just mad. Overall it "seemed" to dehumanize those suffering from NPD which is a big part of my dBPDw's condition even though it wasn't diagnosed. Randi and Paul's book swung the pendulum just a bit past center. I found myself screaming; "No, just leave!!!" and uncontrollably laughing at some of the suggested responses; such as when she suggested I coach her on parenting; OMG she would freaking kill me, she's the model parent! But overall it restored my empathy for her... and struck a bit of fear in me about leaving.

Overall I don't think I fit the traditional mold. My dBPDw has been in counseling for years and it's a big part of what bolsters her pride, her rightness. But many of these counselors have ceased all contact with her and then she goes counselor shopping again and finds another willing participant. I can literally count on more than one hand the counselors who have said: "I can't help you any more", and asked her to not contact them anymore.     

I had my second appt with a counselor this week. I "think" I've just been dumping on him, so desperate to just be honest with someone.

Is it selfish of me to desire to do what it takes to preserve my own emotional well-being by limiting or eventually ceasing my involvement with her? Am I a bad person for giving up after thirty years of marriage?

[SonofThunder]

Hello Froggman,

You wrote " Is it selfish of me to desire to do what it takes to preserve my own emotional well-being by limiting or eventually ceasing my involvement with her? Am I a bad person for giving up after thirty years of marriage?".   

Imo, "giving up" is a choice that only you can make, and define.  If you are going to 'give up', that would assume you had something to 'give up'.  What is your definition of a 'marriage'.  Looking back over your 30 years (Im 30 years married in 2021), does your wife fulfill the vows she promised to you?  If not, then do you really have a marriage? 

For me, legally regarding the state, yes.  Regarding her vows, no.  For me personally, I decided that I could "..preserve my emotional well being", and still remain legally married to my uPDw.  To each his/her own. 

On that note desiring "....to do what it takes to preserve my own emotional well-being" is why most of us are here.  It is a good, honorable, necessary and self loving thing to do.

'Stop Caretaking the Borderline and Narcissist' by Fjelstad, which I recommended prior, is mostly about discovering yourself, changing yourself, and learning to craft and control your response in self-control.   That, imo is crucial and even if you decide to depart your 'legal' marriage, you will need the self-discovery that this book assists with, coupled with the Out of the FOG toolbox and especially boundaries, MC, no-JADE, the 51% rule balanced with the 50% rule, strengthen your backbone and tighten your lips, in prep for, during and after departure.   If you are going to stay, do the same. 

SoT