Manipulations when you are the source of something they want (ie finances)

[ToAudrey]

uNPDH still lives in my home with our child. His behavior really ramped up during stay at home last Spring. Before that it wasn't great but I just JADEd like crazy and wore myself to the ground to work around his outbursts thinking I could at some point do enough. I am the only source of income and during this process of coming out the the FOG and seeing how my own codependency issues helped get me into this situation I very much suspect that his even small hoover-like attempts are because he depends on me financially.

We at at a point where I feel we agree that this a platonic situation only and I have mentioned that at some point he will seek work and independence. His contribution with our child and with the home fluctuates depending on his interest from about 5% of what I'd feel is fair and a high of about 60%. It feels like he does just enough that I'd look like a monster for kicking him out.

He just recently I feel tried to bait me into an argument and when I didn't take the bait is now trying emotionally manipulative tactics like tear and going on about how much he likes living in the same home as our child (actions of ignoring him a great deal contradicts this, gives the kid lots of future faking) and just "how much we have both worked on the place" (a year ago I would have agreed but as I've gone back critically...I did 95% of that work and meanwhile he has amassed an overflowing collection of hobby collectibles far surpassing what he'd have been able to afford before he met me). 

I feel sick. I know that all this BS he is laying on is just that. He knows that our child is important to me and I won't just toss his father out with nothing. He knows that without me footing the bill he'd have to work and hold a job and not  afford all this extra junk. I've set some financial boundaries over the year as I've come to see what was happening but I'm still left feeling taking advantage of. I feel he was trying to bait me to talk more about how I feel in order to use it against me later as he's done before. Some of the last huge blowups last year when I came Out of the FOG really revealed how much he'd done that all along. Now I get periodic "you don't talk enough...you always do this you are at arms length" line. When I know that in the past that has not been true and that I know currently I have zero trust in telling him anything of my private thoughts. 

I used the tools best I could and held my own. But I start to have so many doubts like I am just being 'mean' or 'unreasonable'. Like I have to just live with this situation because I didn't get out sooner and now I'm trapped.

Confronting him directly that he's only making renewed promises and pleas to come to some sort of cohabitation situation is only because he wants me to continue to be is financial source wouldn't get anywhere.

For those that either for the long term or short term are somewhat out of the relationship but still in the same home, are there any particular ways you use the tools or additional tools you employ?

I feel like I'm still giving him supply because he's getting room and board and insurance and a car and extra cash. So I've little chance that he will just up take off.

[Penny Lane]

Hi. I'm sorry you're going through this, and I'm sorry it's so hard.

In the short term, along with not JADEing, one tool I would suggest is medium chill. It sounds like you're already doing a version of this and it's helping. A very related tool is grey rock.

In the longer term, though, I don't think he's ever going to leave. He has no incentive! Right now things are exactly how he wants them, and he most likely won't be motivated to make a change unless his hand is forced. Your choices are 1. keep doing exactly what you're doing or 2. decide to split up and make it happen. Your unwillingness to "toss him out with nothing" means that he will guarantee that he has "nothing," or close enough to it, right up until you split up.

If you do want to make a change, you can start planning now. Do you have the authority to kick him out of the home, or would you have to find another home? What would make it palatable to you? I don't think you're obligated to do this (and I would not) but would it make you feel better to give him first and last months rent for a new place out of the family funds, before you separate your finances?

You are not being mean or unreasonable! Your past decisions do not doom you to a loveless marriage where you have to both earn all the money and do all the work. You have the power to make a change, and at the end of the day he will have to respect that.

I'm not going to lie that would be a hard path. And I think he would use your empathy to try to make you feel terrible like you are kicking him out. But he has choices and he's making the decision to drag his feet on this - that doesn't bind you to staying forever.

Good luck, I hope whatever you decide going forward you can find some peace and happiness.

[GettingOOTF]

Before that it wasn’t great but I just JADEd like crazy and wore myself to the ground to work around his outbursts thinking I could at some point do enough. I am the only source of income and during this process of coming out the the FOG and seeing how my own codependency issues helped get me into this situation I very much suspect that his even small hoover-like attempts are because he depends on me financially.



I feel like I’m still giving him supply because he’s getting room and board and insurance and a car and extra cash. So I’ve little chance that he will just up take off.

You 100% described my marriage.

I had a lot of guilt around leaving and it felt hopeless given my exes financial situation.

At the end of the day though he is a grown man perfectly capable of working. He chose not to and I chose to enable him by supporting him. He had a million excuses for not working. All of which I believed, but ultimately it came down to the fact that he didn’t want to work and I allowed it.

I’m a few years out. Honestly some days it feels like money just falls out of the sky for me as he’s no longer sucking us dry. He got and kept a job that has good insurance and he moved in very quickly with a women who made more money than he does. She pays for all the things I used to, but he works now. She has better boundaries than I did.

Your ex will never ever ever choose to leave. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by leaving. My ex would rather have lived with miserable old me who paid for everything. He was happy with his situation. I was not. Nothing changed until I took the really hard step of forcing the change.

I would speak with an attorney and see what your options are.

I know it’s harder when kids are involved but he’s not setting any kind of good example by refusing to work and behaving towards you the way that he is.

It’s easy for me to say now, and I fully acknowledge this, but leaving was the best thing I ever did for myself. I can’t imagine where I’d be today if I’d stayed with him.

Also, you aren’t trapped. I know it feels that way. I’ve been there. I spent years saying “I should have left before ...”, but now I can look back and say “thank goodness I left before ...”. It is never too make a positive change. The longer you stay the more they grind you down. He wants you to feel trapped because that’s what’s keeping you there and supporting him. There’s a whole world out there waiting for you.

One thing I have noticed over the years is I’ve never once read of anyone coming back here and saying they regret leaving. In fact people go out of their way to come back to places like this and other boards to tell others how great it is on the other side, to give them hope and encouragement to join them. The only regret I’ve seen people express is that they didn’t make the change sooner.

[Boat Babe]

 

[Frankie14]

In the longer term, though, I don't think he's ever going to leave. He has no incentive! Right now things are exactly how he wants them, and he most likely won't be motivated to make a change unless his hand is forced. Your choices are 1. keep doing exactly what you're doing or 2. decide to split up and make it happen. Your unwillingness to "toss him out with nothing" means that he will guarantee that he has "nothing," or close enough to it, right up until you split up.

Your ex will never ever ever choose to leave. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by leaving. My ex would rather have lived with miserable old me who paid for everything. He was happy with his situation. I was not. Nothing changed until I took the really hard step of forcing the change.

to both...

I am in the same situation, altho my H is currently working, but he is not earning nearly enough to even find a place on his own.  He barely works for low pay, doing the BARE minimum to live in my house.  I pay for everything, from mortgage to school tuitions, school clothes for kids, my own clothes, shoes, plumber, lawn care, furniture, all of it.  He contributes very very little financially because woe is him, he 'just can't find a decent job.' 

BTW the ONLY reason he works AT ALL is because he did not work for TWO YEARS and just figured his woe is me, with my being the sole provider would work for all of my eternity.  I gave him an ultimatum of find a job in a month or GET OUT of MY house 6 years ago...to which he found the part time sales job he has held for 6 years, it DOES provide the family medical insurance thru his employment and with his low salary he can make his own car payment (he had a car repossessed during his 2 years out of work stint, he figured I would make his car payment for him, I DID NOT, so he had no vehicle for 2 years and had to borrow a car from his brother), my H is a college educated man in the suburbs...

Now, his very low financial contribution to the family maybe 20% of the utility bills and groceries, everything else is on me..he pays for NOTHING for me, not a haircut, nothing.  My birthday was a few weeks ago, he got me a card because he literally and I checked had $109 in his bank account. 

H is 50 years old with no savings, no emergency fund, no assets and back in debt.  I found out a month or so ago he has racked up 60k in debt (not in my name, we are not in a community property state, I have already spoken to my attorney and no I won't have to pay his cards). 

H has NOT used these credit cards he doesn't know I know about for family, no high medical bills, has not contributed to our roof needing to be redone; there is nothing to show for the 60k debt...BUT guys trips, golf trips, guys fishing trips, alcohol, misc nonsense for HIS good time, nothing tangible for 60k in debt.  End of 2019 he also stole our sons college funds, which I told him he had to LEAVE AT ONCE or replenish.  I assume he took out cards or a loan to repay the college money he stole.  My attorney after this said why does it need to be replenish the college fund or leave; it should have been REPLENSISH THE COLLEGE FUND AND LEAVE; this guy is NEVER going to stop.  He loves his free ride and living with his kids AND being miserable.  We are also in a platonic, non sexual, separate bedrooms relationship.  I have not been intimate with him in over a year and NEVER would again...he thinks he will also brow-beat me into resuming relations, and I will NOT.

As further proof they don't change;

H had to declare bankruptcy early in the marriage thinking I was going to pay his debt from BEFORE HE EVEN MET ME..I did not..so the long and the short of this story is; he will NEVER CHANGE, even after bk, car repossession, sitting in my house for YEARS not working...he still does the BARE minimum and is back in 60k debt...

What has to change is ME; I have to get him out of here; he is a piss poor example to our young boys..

My H like yours has ZERO incentive to EVER work or work harder when they have free room and board and are holding us emotional hostage with the child(ren) in the home.  My H will put up some good lip service of I am looking for a new job, I need to make more money, but its ALL just to SHUT ME UP, when I have to remind him, he has no money...therefore he has no say in our home.  The kids look at him as an over grown moody teenager in our house..so the example I am setting for my two sons is; Dad is a lazy mooch, Mom pays all the bills/works..

Keep it MC, gray rock, do not engage in conversation; I treat my husband as a roommate I am forced to live with, stay cordial but literally cannot stand him.  Our house is so happy when he is gone..as soon as he comes back into it both boys and myself are like UGHH here comes the (broke) moping whiner....

One of the things I learned in Al-ANON (my H is a dry drunk currently, has been a alcoholic most of the marriage); was as enablers one of the things we do is become OVERLY responsible so the mentally ill or drug addict or alcoholic stays NON responsible.  WE, are over functioning, so they under function or like your H don't function, which is interfering with the natural consequences (of not working) which is not having any money or possessions.

I would start with your H and I had to do this also; is not let him have any access to your money whatsoever.  Give him $20 a week.  HE will not be able to buy his hobby items with no money...

If he acts up; honesty so what; when my H initially acted up to his $20 weekly allowance (as a non working healthy able bodied man) he said to me, "I WILL NOT BE TREATED LIKE A TEENAGER" and I said THEN LEAVE...

So saying LEAVE...finally got him to think...hmmm, maybe sitting in this woman's house all day NOT Working with HER MAKING ME miserable isn't quite worth it...but trust me they won't leave; if my H had any dignity he would have left years ago; but remember they DO NOT have any dignity .. which is why they are parasites and mooches..

Hang in there....live your own life; start to find new friends, your own interests, I have done all of that and it is very liberating..

My goal is getting him out of here within the year once the vaccines ramp up..and covid is on the back slide..