MIL - Help!

[HippoDisco]

Hi everyone! Looking for thoughts, help, anything. Sorry it's long.

Over the last 7yrs, I've been with a lovely man. We work so well together and are incredibly alike, it's pretty much perfect. We have our own home and x2 really cool cats.

With recent events though, I feel like I've woken up from a bad dream involving his mother. Thinking back, she's always made strange off the cuff comments, but I just thought that was her crap sense of humour.

Here are a few points:-

- She molly coddled my partner. Well into his 20s, she'd call him a, 'man child' in this weird, affectionate way. He used to travel for work and she did absolutely everything, from buying all of his clothes to packing his case each trip. I know his ex then had to assume these, 'duties' once they moved out. When we first met, his mother did nothing but slate the ex, saying she was lazy, dirty, messy etc. with housework and said to me, "you look after him though, don't you?". With her own husband she micro manages everything, down to how he's eating a meal and basically seems to think women should mother the men in their lives.

- As above, she has made some really odd, 'jokes' about me: I'm an, 'alcoholic', I 'smell', 'always have smelly feet' - I literally have no idea where these have come from. Racial quips too: I need to speak to a group of Asian folks for her because I would understand them. She spoke to a friend of hers once, pointed to me, and said, "look, I've got one now".

- She wants to know every last detail of what's going on with us. She's a gossip and has told me all sorts about the other people she tries to keep close.

- She always slates my partner's siblings. They are step to her, both adults and happily living their own lives with their own children. We've never had any issues with them and she is incredibly jealous whenever they spend time with us (who knows?).

- She rearranges my house and adds things whenever we go away. We allow her to house sit the cats, which she is really pushy about and upset any time I suggest my family will do it. Each time there's a new piece of decor, things moved around. She then boasts to others that she does this and my God, recently I removed what she put in my house and her face was like thunder.

- She treats us like her teenage children and is weirdly unhappy whenever we assert our independence (was unhappy when I resumed doing our laundry after helped when we first moved).

- Every time she visits, she makes comments about the house, inspects things, tries to pressure my partner into doing DIY, gives unsolicited advice, tells us her husband will come and do things around the place and tries to persuade me into decorating in ways that she likes

- She has a key - it was given to her before anything was ever discussed with me

- She likes to show people around my house. I recently found out it happened years ago whilst I was at work and more recently she brought a friend over, unannounced and did a tour

- She's pushy about us converting our outbuilding into a flat, where she will move in

- She's pushy about me producing children for her, which just feels gross, "I want one of these/how many are we having/I want my nursery in this room"

- If my partner doesn't respond immediately to her, she'll message me and whine that he's ignoring her, then call incessantly if she still doesn't get a response

- She exaggerates illness and literally feigns serious diagnoses.

Can someone explain this behaviour? It just feels so enmeshed and worse still partner thinks some of it is normal (the nagging/telling him off/telling him how to manage his house and wanting to be involved with everything).

This is neurotic/unstable territory, right? Partner's dad once told her that she'd 'ruined' their son, hates her and to be honest I'm starting to. How do I deal with it going forward and how do I switch off from it at the moment? It goes round my head over and over at the moment and I'm so angry!

[AnonymousHippopotamus]

oh my goodness! All of what your mother in law is doing is wrong on so many levels. The point you made about her having a key and giving tours whilst you are at work really sent shivers down my spine. This certainly is enmeshment and entanglement. I'd love to recommend a therapist I regularly watch on youtube called Kris Godinez, her videos have been really helpful to me and she also accepts short questions directly through her website, or you can ask her questions on her live video's she does every sunday. Sorry you're going through this. I do also want to say that if your partner can't see the invasion of privacy and can't put you first, you may need to rethink your choices and dealbreakers for what you'll put up with and what you won't. But definitely don't say anything to the mother in law, that's what she wants so that she can use your words to attempt to turn your partner against you. Talk with your spouse only! He has to be the one to assert the boundries with his mum. If you do, you'll end up in a sticky situation, as I have learnt the hard way. Your partner has to demand the respect you both deserve, for you both to be able to manage moving forward in a more healthy and respectful way. Please watch Kris's videos. And Dr.Ramani is really good too, also on youtube.

[AnonymousHippopotamus]

I just want to add to my response that I don't want you to think you shouldn't stand up for yourself or assert your own boundries, just make sure your spouse is either with you when you do it and that it's in a calm and clear manner, so as not to be manipulated or misinterpretated to the narcissist's intent or agenda. I only communicate with them via message now, and have my partner help me write things if i'm going to respond to my in laws, then he know's exactly what's going on. But I'm no contact with them now, and my spouse is 90% no contact.

Also, I lived with my inlaws for 2 years whilst my partner and I saved up some money. My partner also couldn't see the truth as you've stated in your message, It took him some time to see it. Showing my partner some of Kris Godinez's youtube videos helped open his eyes and we're now both on the same page. Hope that helps x

[engineer31]

Wow. I am so sorry this is happening. I agree with all of what suzy said. I can't believe she would invite someone over to your house and show them around. 100% not ok. None of that is ok and you have every right to be angry. I would definitely have a talk with your husband about boundaries...From my experience as well, I agree with having your husband talk to his mom. I have tried to talk to my uBPD MIL about issues and she just turns them around and then lies to my DH about it or vents to him and lies to me (like DH and I don't talk  ). For these reasons and more, I went NC with her and the rest of his family 3 months ago. It's been the best decision I've made. It took us awhile to get on the same page, because DH didn't fully see what was going on. But once he stood up for me, and his M started responding to him with her demeaning, narcistic comments, he 100% realized why I don't want to talk to them, or allow them in our house anytime soon, and I won't see them more than once a year. Good luck to you

[Hilltop]

She is extremely controlling and she sees you still as children, so did my MIL.  There are a couple of things I think you should start with.  Get your locks changed or get her key back.  She has evaded your privacy by giving a tour, she sees her son's house as an extension of hers. She feels entitled to come over and do as she  pleases, it's time to put boundaries in place.  She doesn't see it as your place with your DH, she sees it as her sons house and as he is an extension of her, it's also her house, if you see what I mean.

Let your family take care of the place next time you go away.  If your MIL changes anything in the house, don't thank her, ignore it and after she is gone change it back immediately.  Do not keep the things she puts up in the house.  Don't fight her on it, she will play the victim, just keep returning it back to how you decorated it.  My MIL played this game to a T and caused so many arguments about it by crying and placing massive guilt on DH, that's why I say don't say anything about it, just throw out or donate her stuff and change it back immediately.

Do not let her do anything for you, no cooking, no laundry, don't let her come shopping to buy that new washing machine, don't ask for her opinion.  Do it and then tell her about it later.  If she cooks for you, thank her and do what you want with it however don't ask her to cook you meals or  help you out.

Simply ignore the outbuilding idea.  You have more important things to spend your money on.  Ignore the stuff about the siblings, do not get drawn into putting them down, don't agree with her, simply change the conversation.

Put boundaries in place now otherwise when or if you decide to have children she will be a nightmare.

The big one, the comments she is making are racist and not ok.  This is where I think you need to start with your DH.  I would talk to him and tell him its not ok and he needs to shut her down.  If he isn't there or doesn't do it, you need to speak up and let her know her comments are hurtful.  They are not jokes, they are not funny, they are disrespectful and rude.  You are not wrong to shut them down.  She will come back with that you are too sensitive, don't listen to it, you aren't.

You are being kind to her because she is your mother in law but she isn't being kind to you.  You need to stand up for yourself, you need to have enough self care and self respect to not tolerate her racism.  Your DH really needs to back you on this. I would first speak to your DH to see what he thinks and if he backs you.  If he does back you then come up with some comments to shut the comments down.  If he doesn't I would go to a marriage counsellor or therapist.

[BettyGray]

Wow. You pretty much just described my own uNPD Mother. I am NC with her (5 years) and everyone else in my family. She is the queen bee, passive aggressive, divisive, controlling, meddling, covert, etc.

In your situation, there are SO many crossed boundaries. Just Atrocious behavior. She seems like a desperately miserable woman, in fact, because she is. She can’t deal with her own self-hatred and smallness, so she tries to project it onto everyone else to avoid looking in the mirror. That would be too much for her.

She takes the chaos out of herself and flings it out into the world to see what sticks. Knowing it will throw everyone off balance, she can then sit back and watch the show. And control. And pounce. Some N moms are so good at this you don’t realize their game for awhile. Unfortunately lots of us don’t notice what we also don’t want to see.

Is your partner the first-born? This seems to be common with first born sons.
“She molly coddled my partner.”
Yup. My mother still does my eldest brother’s laundry, goes with him to dr. Appts (into the room, too), cooks for him, etc. she ran off his wife 20 years ago. He has had no relationship since, except with her. It’s creeeeeepy.

She treats us like her teenage children and is weirdly unhappy whenever we assert our independence

Check. Things seemed ok enough, growing up. I was still a child she could control.  I came home from college and felt like I had entered the Twilight Zone. I went on in pursuit of a normal  life, moved away, started a business, got married - pretty basic stuff. She never forgave me for “leaving her” and my DH, who “stole me away” and “brainwashed me into turning against her/our family). Three other siblings stayed close, and she has pretty much ruined their lives through covert control and manipulation. All the while painting herself as some kind of saint.

The racism, which she doesn’t even get to hide, is unacceptable. Low hanging fruit for her, since it’s - you know- clearly directed toward you. There are things you can accept, and things nobody should accept. No both sides to racism. The least your partner should do is defend you. Otherwise he is complicit in her denigration of you as a human being and your culture.

Every time she visits, she makes comments about the house, inspects things

This! My mom (& her disciple, my older sister) made a habit of inspecting my appearance my hair (too flat), my clothes (they weren’t feminine enough), my house/decor. In preparation of a visit, I made sure my house was always spotless. Comments abounded anyway.

She exaggerates illness and literally feigns serious diagnoses.

This is pretty common with PDs. My mom had phantom pains in her leg for years. They gave her a self-pity subject, to keep the attention on her. Doctors found nothing wrong, but still, they were always there- especially at convenient times.

Many of the behaviors you describe are common PD antics. None of it is normal. It is also not uncommon for kids raised to believe this IS normal stuff, and they cling to it, even to their detriment.  Finding out what you thought was normal really ISN’T, is too hard for some to face. Nobody wants to admit their parent is a monster.

That said, this is delicate territory. What is obvious to us is NOT always so to enmeshed (and specifically parentified) children. Fear, obligation and guilt are used as weapons. We are made to feel that opposition is bad. So we deny, try not to rock the boat, comply, fulfill our duties, and walk around feeling guilty for things we shouldn’t feel guilty about. That makes us powerless.

Since you have been around for 7 years, she has likely given up on you being a temporary partner, which most likely threatens her. So she pathetically clings to what little sway or control she has with your partner.

She pushes buttons. If she provokes a strong emotion or reaction in you, she is winning. Unfortunately they make everything a game. Guess who loses when we give them what they want (getting upset, challenging them, trying to explain ourselves, saying nothing when they act out).?

So don’t play. At this point you seem very aware of how she operates. When she figures out you are on to her methods, this will anger her more. Stand your ground, do not react. Once I saw the game my mother played, it was quite entertaining to watch her try so hard.

It already sounds as though you have no respect for her. An awareness of how she tries to exert control in situations where she feels unsafe will make her less threatening and more pathetic. You have the power to beat her at her own game.

A few suggestions:

- Try not to take the barbs too personally. She obviously had it in for anyone who threatened her control over her son. She must feel even more threatened by you. There is power for you in that. The more you view her as lashing out from her own fear , the less you will care, and the less things will upset you.

- You MUST get her key back. The longer she has it, the more entitled she will feel to come in and cause chaos by moving things around, bringing people in when you’re not there...If you have ANY other way to find a pet-sitter, do so. Or just change the locks and don’t tell her.

A few suggestions:

- Realize you are getting upset and feeling emotions HE should be feeling and processing. I guess he feels he can’t upset or confront her, so he tries to create some safe space for himself in the middle. Not getting upset at things that are egregiously over the line, when they clearly upset you, is a defense mechanism. It’s inherently selfish and cowardly to play it safe and say he feels stuck in the middle of the two of you.  There is no “in the middle.” He should be on your side, period.

- He HAS to draw lines in the sand and talk to her. Like he would a smll child. She needs to be told what is and what is not ok. Your home should be your turf, your sacred space.

- I wouldn’t talk to him about her in any way about her that makes it seem like he is doing something wrong by letting her behave badly. This may put him on the defensive, he will stop listening, and then you’ll be the bad guy.  Remind him you are on his side, and point out how her behavior seems to have a negative effect on him. Hopefully, in time, he will begin to notice her patterns and see the truth of how she operates. Mothers like this have a way of killing self-esteem in their children. He needs to find a way of regaining that when he is around her.

- If you have been passive to her in the past, that is what she will come to expect from you. Throw her for a loop and call her out immediately. If she makes a snide comment, say”well, THAT was a rude thing to say.” And walk away. She will be speechless and by walking away, you then remove her ability to strike back. Another one is “I’m sorry, I didn’t catch what you just said. Could you repeat if, please?” This will likely catch her off guard, embarrass her and put her on the spot.

Another good tactic, in the moment, is (once she has said something nasty or passive aggressive) , is to look her in the eye, say nothing, make her uncomfortable in the long silence, and then, before walking away, say “Hmm.” She will not know what to do and the look on her face will be priceless.

- You are under no obligation to have a relationship with her. Be cordial when you see her, but don’t give her anything she can use against you later. And ignore those desperate, manipulative texts. My MIL pulls that crap from time to time when we don’t call her right away. It got so bad once I basically told her to her face she was being ridiculously irrational and that I was worried she may need to see a mental health provider.

- Realize that nothing you ever do or say will make her warm up to you. It’s her, not you. Don’t waste your energy.

It does seem like if  these issues are not addressed by your partner, it will get worse down the road. Getting him to cut the leash will not be easy. He has likely never stepped far enough Out of the FOG to see her for what she is. Be patient with him. I have found it is sometimes best to let them think things are their idea and that they can enact change based upon that power.

- State to your partner what your needs are. For example, “when your mother rearranges my personal space, I feel violated. I need to feel safe in my own home and not worry about what is happening when I am not there. Can you understand why I feel this way?”

- Never be alone with her.

Good luck to you. None of this is easy. You’re not alone in your concern over her interference in your lives. Try your best to figure out her motivations, and you’ll see how weak she really is.

And those nasty comments? Imagine she is saying them to herself, in the mirror. Because, most of the time, she is.

[Pepin]

I can also relate to much of what you wrote...sadly.  I've been with my DH for more than 20 years and I realized over 10 years ago that there were some real hefty problems going on.

The molly coddling......OMG.....and my DH is not the oldest but the most compliant.  Every time PDmil would visit, she would come laden with food she cooked or bought.  Even if we were hosting her for a meal, she would still bring food and demand that DH eat some of it whether we were serving it with our food or not.  Ugh.  After a while I saw what was going on and confronted DH.  I told him that it was too much and that the amount of food was both ridiculous, unnecessary and at times I felt upstaged when we were hosting.  He talked to her and eventually she stopped.  After that, if we visited her she would try and send us home with food.  I had to be really firm and I said NO a lot.  For F's sake, DH and I are adults and can shop and cook for ourselves.  I now love saying NO to her.  Feels awesome!

No doubt jokes have been said about me....she talks about the other spouses so I am certain she also talks about me to them.  She also talks poorly about DH's siblings behind their backs....which I don't understand either.  We are all adults and her behavior is completely childish.  She doesn't approve of the way anyone lives or parents yet it really isn't her problem....it is just that she thinks everyone should do stuff her way -- yet no one does and no wants to.

She wants to know details about us because it gives her something to talk about with others and it makes her feel connected.  On the other hand, if she knows how we are spending our money, she tries to step in and pay.  Again, we are adults and can pay for what we need....we don't take advantage of her the way DH's siblings do.

And then there is the pesky language thing.  Only one of the spouses of DH's siblings speaks the same language as PDmil's mother tongue.  The rest of us don't and see no reason to learn - especially since PDmil is proficient in English.  But she now claims that she doesn't know English much anymore and that is hard.  Pffffffttt.  I call foul on that.  It is just a dumb game she plays and she loves not speaking English on front of me -- meaning, she gets DH all to herself. 

She was a PITA about kids.  Wanted us to have more because she wanted that token BOY.  Nope.  Didn't happen.

Feigns illnesses and denies herself healthcare because it is "too expensive".  Please.  She wants attention and for DH to care for her.

When we first moved closer to her, she tried to arrange things in our home and do some weird stuff.  Nope, I swooped in and made that end pretty fast.  No one touches my home.  EVER.  And I tossed a lot of stuff she gave us that she thought we needed.  All of it was basically second hand trash.

I think the others have provided a lot of great suggestions.  In my case, I definitely have had to be firm and also to let DH deal with her.  I continue to do things my way and if she feels slighted, oh well, that is on her.  She has had a very difficult time with the fact that I married her GC, DH.  I am not of their race or culture and I know to my core that this upsets PDmil greatly.  She wanted a DIL that would be like DH that she could wipe her feet on.  Sadly, I used to comply until my kids were older and then I snapped out of it.  No more.

And yes, my DH became re enmeshed with her after FIL passed.  PDmil lost her husband and I pretty much lost DH as he was promoted to head male of the family.  I highly recommend Dr. Ken Adams, Dr. Ramani and Kris Godinez. 

[Hilltop]

Hippodisco, I forgot to mention one thing that for me was really important.  I didn't see it early on as I was too confused and still desperately trying to get MIL to like me.  What I didn't see was that MIL was doing a lot of things not only for control but it seemed like it was to pit us against each other.  We fought a lot over MIL in the early years and I really don't think that was an accident. Ok so let me say that again, I came to fully understand that it wasn't an accident.

MIL was repeatedly told what she was doing was hurtful or there was an issue and it stumped me on why she kept doing things until one day I realised that as I fought with DH about him not standing up for me, him not talking to her about me being hurt and him being defensive, I one day woke up and realised that as she pitted us against each other it broke our bond.  It lessened intimacy between us.  He listened to me less and her more.  The angrier he was with me, the more he did for her.  It worked in her favour to have the upper hand and have control.

This is why I say don't sweat the small stuff.  Don't get into that power play over her trying to re-decorate your house.  Just accept her silly stuff and then throw it out.  If she makes a comment that your house doesn't seem clean, just smile and say "you think so".  Don't agree with her, don't argue with her, leave her opinion with her.  Her opinion of you doesn't make it fact.  Her opinion is not accurate as she is so biased with her own insecurity and fear so don't listen to her and don't take it personally.  Easier said than done I know, I struggled for years with this one.  Once you realise that you can take her spare key away or change the locks and your MIL doesn't have access to your house, that you can throw her stuff away, you can change things back to how you like them, you will come to see that MIL doesn't have any power or control with your house.  She really doesn't, she isn't as big a player in that as you think.

Obviously speak up about the things that matter such as the racism, you should both be on board with shutting this down.  If she insults you in other ways, think of some neutral sayings that you are comfortable with that you can practice to say to her in your own defence.  I wouldn't wait for your DH to stand up for you, I would make sure you do that yourself, just be assertive but not aggressive about it.  Even just a simple "well that was rude" and then walk away would be fine.

You won't win this woman over,  its unlikely you will come to like her.  But don't do what I did which was let myself be put down and I didn't speak up for myself and my self esteem took a battering.  Speak up for yourself, you don't have to be put down by anyone, even your MIL.  I know its tough as it's DH's mother and we feel we should be respectful however if she is not being respectful to you, you certainly do not need to accept hurtful behaviour and you wouldn't in any other situation in your life. Hugs its really hard.