PDs and addiction

[IcedCoffee]

What experiences do members have with partners who have addictions? My uBPDw has/had: Alcohol; Eating (various issues); Exercise; Social media.

She can spend six hours a day on Instagram. A large part of that might be trying to make one post. She will come to me for advice. Stupidly I usually give it. But if there's one tiny error or word out of place in her post then all hell breaks loose. Full-on panic attack, deletion of post, ranting at me, and bringing up the divorce. It just happened now. I'll give it another five minutes and see how she's doing.

[BeautifulCrazy]

I don't have any experience with addictions and PD together but your post brings to mind the three C's.
I didn't cause it.
I can't cure it.
I can't control it.
I'm thinking her addictions are solidly her issues, not yours.
Could you draw some boundaries around that? Like not engaging with those behaviors?

For the PD bits, I'm a big proponent of full on medium chill (instead of giving advice).
Ranting or blaming = you make an exit.

[Pepin]

I have always felt that addiction (regardless of which one) is the result of a personal void that needs to be filled.  Rather than turning to themselves, they seek to escape in their fantasy in order to not do the work and deal with what the issue is.  My DH struggles with this in various aspects.  I have had to ask myself what I will and won't tolerate and then to set boundaries as needed with him.  It is never my intent to call him out and make him feel ashamed because then he will work harder to hide from me and become more self destructive.  I have had very few moments where I can bring up the issue and demand that we discuss it.  On the other hand, when he acts out, I stop and analyze what is going on.  For him, it always circles back to stress.  Where does this stress come from?  And as usual, that stress points to PDmil having more of a presence in his life.....getting him to take care of her to do list and making him feel guilty about what he does and doesn't do.  It is hard work to keep him focused on our marriage and kids.  It really is.  And like you, I'm living in this never ending state of vigilance....which is exhausting.  But.  While I continue to gather evidence that can possibly help free DH, I also focus more on myself and how I can be free.  I have definitely detached from him.  Sometimes this makes me sad.....but how else am I able to keep going forward?  I cannot allow myself to feel sad or hopeless because of his behavior.  It is his to own alone, not mine.  I can do what I can here and there like the fairies from Sleeping Beauty and that is about it until he can snap out of it.  But, there are limits of course for any human being to endure. 

[IcedCoffee]

I don't have any experience with addictions and PD together but your post brings to mind the three C's.
I didn't cause it.
I can't cure it.
I can't control it.
I'm thinking her addictions are solidly her issues, not yours.
Could you draw some boundaries around that? Like not engaging with those behaviors?

For the PD bits, I'm a big proponent of full on medium chill (instead of giving advice).
Ranting or blaming = you make an exit.

A year ago I stopped giving advice. Now if she wants to spend all day on Instagram fine. MC for me. One source of rages dealt with! But if she somehow blames me for her not doing anything all day then I will calmly say "You know what you've been doing all day." And walk away. I read somewhere that it's common for BPDs to realize in their forties that they have achieved nothing in their lives. Between losing friends, jobs, addictions, and getting an identity through SOs they are not productive and so have lots of regrets, which they blame on you know who..

[BettyGray]

Raising my hand here

Although I don’t think my DH is PD, he has some awful fleas that led him to battle severe alcohol addiction. Drinking flared up these fleas to the point I was sure he was NPD. Once he stopped drinking, he showed an ability to change, became more open-minded, and showed a willingness to get better. Otherwise, I would have left.

My DH’s relationship with alcohol started in his early teens. I met him while we were both in our 20s. He drank more than I did, but I didn’t see it as a big problem. It was part of our social, professional and personal lives. He was in a high-pressure career where colleagues bonded and wooed clients over drinks. It was just....normal.

The signs were there, I just didn’t want to see them. A few years into our marriage, it became concerning. But I still gave him a break because his job was so demanding - who was I to take away his relaxation time? He had no healthy coping mechanism for stress or trauma, just escapes. It takes great courage to face and conquer an addiction. PDs aren’t exactly swimming in courage.

During the worst of it, I attended quite a few Al-Anon meetings, which really helped me at the time. I felt very alone and scared (my FOO is full of PDs, so no support there), and his parents were pretty devastated and unable to provide much emotional support for me.

The Al-Anon meetings gave me a place to go to feel less alone and it also gave me something that was just for me. I stopped going when I felt I no longer needed it, but I am really glad I had the experience. It was a gift of kindness to myself.
I think the meetings can also work for people whose loved ones face other addictions. The focus is on taking care of ourselves so we don’t become addicted to trying to solve their problems.

Social media and the need to create a “personal brand” or become famous, is a cancer on our society. I don’t know what type of Instagram account she has, but it sounds like she is creating a buffer world for herself and her “audience.” And don’t get me started on the word “curated.”).

Her behavior also sounds quite dissociative. It’s a way to self-soothe and avoid facing her monumental insecurities. The pandemic has exacerbated addictions for so many people, especially those who don’t seek self-actualization or knowledge. Being alone with our own thoughts is many a person’s worst nightmare. For PDs, it’s unbearable.

I see from your writing that she is uBPD. I am pretty sure my sister is as well, so I understand the chaos of dealing with one.

.I read somewhere that it's common for BPDs to realize in their forties that they have achieved nothing in their lives. Between losing friends, jobs, addictions, and getting an identity through SOs they are not productive and so have lots of regrets, which they blame on you know who.

This describes my sister: friendships came and went, she was always mad at one of them; she went from job to job, failed relationships (usually dead-ends - the other person was ‘crazy,’ needed therapy, or needed fixing). She was never the problem. Oh, and an intense shopping addiction- running up credit card bills, etc. And reality shows, celebrity culture, beauty magazines.  In her 40s, unmarried, she may or may not have come to regret some of this - I don’t know. I would bet the Pandemic has been a rude awakening - spending time alone and isolated is not something she could handle for months on end.

Glad to hear that you are able to recognize patterns of behavior. Dealing with PDs takes so much from us. Often we don’t realize the toll on our psyches until we have expended a ton of energy trying to understand them, and by then we’ve gone through a lot of conflict and pain.

One of my biggest pet peeves in life is people who complain about their lives and do nothing to change their situation - do nothing to help themselves. These type of people think life just *happens* to them. That they might have some control over in which direction their life goes doesn’t occur to appeal. Or if it does, it’s tremendously scary and easier to not take control. So they’re always the victim, everyone else is in the wrong, their lives are always harder.

I also can’t abide quitters. uBPD sister never followed through on much of anything. There were always grand plans that got abandoned, goals that were never intended to be reached. There was always an excuse not to commit, not to move forward, not to finish what she started.

You’re correct- your SO losing an entire day to Instagram shouldn’t fall on you and you shouldn’t be blamed for her actions. That’s downright irrational.
It’s a PD trap, which empathetic people fall into. Then the crazy-making begins, and there goes more of our energy.

These days, when I get tired of someone’s complaining and victimhood, a good response is “OK. Now what are you going to do about it?” This will throw them a off balance, because a) they’re expecting you to take the bait so they can turn it around on you, b) you’re challenging them - which they don’t like, for sure- but they are not usually prepared to answer it. That’s when you can walk away. Making it clear it’s not your problem to solve, and that you won’t tolerate getting dragged into it, can go a long way towards your peace of mind.

I think in relationships with PDs or bad fleas, we have to learn to balance our needs with their wants. Often we are coming from positions of codependency, people pleading, trying to help. And the cost to our mental health sneaks up on us, making us realize we may be in a no-win situation. That’s when we have to reframe our view of our roles, our needs,  and whom we want to be.

“Detaching with love” is another Al-Anon
phrase. I didn’t truly understand this until fairly recently. I thought that meant the relationship would suffer, that I would feel worse, and that I wouldn’t be able to achieve it. But eventually I began to see the rewards for myself. I became unburdened by things that used to upset  me, and learned how to deal with confrontations in an effective manner, (which, in turn, expanded my confidence).  Most of all, I gave myself permission to protect my well-being first, even if it meant walking away.

[IcedCoffee]

These days, when I get tired of someone's complaining and victimhood, a good response is "OK. Now what are you going to do about it?" This will throw them a off balance, because a) they're expecting you to take the bait so they can turn it around on you, b) you're challenging them - which they don't like, for sure- but they are not usually prepared to answer it. That's when you can walk away. Making it clear it's not your problem to solve, and that you won't tolerate getting dragged into it, can go a long way towards your peace of mind.

I've tried that a few times, and it does work.

But there's a lot to remember: MC; Not taking things personally; Slight smile; Look after myself, 51%; "Now what are you going to do about it?"; Walk away; Which lie did I tell;...It's like learning a foreign language but with serious punishment for making mistakes!

[Cascade]

My PDH has a weakness for addictions. He tends to go overboard in so many areas. Why buy one when you can buy a case? He's currently addicted to his cell phone, though I know that's a common problem. I fear he's also headed towards an addiction for alcohol.

[Frankie14]

Yes, my PD H has many additions; 

Alcohol
Over eating
Spending
Not working
Sneaking
Lying (and lies of omission)

My PD h is an alcoholic (currently sober only due to my ultimatum in 2019 of quit drinking or get out of my house/but now he is a dry drunk/and even more miserable to be around 'sober'), he is 70 pounds overweight and obese, addicted to spending, he has gone bankrupt once 12 years ago, and I just found out last week, he is hiding 60k on credit cards he has racked up, and not paid off over the past 8 years.  Looks like the second he was able to get a credit card again in 2013 he went right back to spending, drinking, guys trips, golf trips.  ZERO to family, doesn't even contribute to our mortgage, or lawn care or child care, he says he 'can't afford it'. 

I have had no idea he has had any credit cards since his bk in 2012, so this is a huge dealbreaker for me; he has never said a word about having debt (again); because ... he's addicted to being a SNEAK..I have no debt, do not use credit cards, and he has not purchased anything for family on his hidden cards, no trips, no house repairs, nothing, it was all nonsense for himself.. He did not use my name for cards, my credit is in tact, and that of my sons..PDH did steal their college fund (20k) last year which I also found out about only checking their fund account and nearly going berserk when I found out he raided it..so its just a matter of time before he steals their social security numbers to open cards in their names.

He is hopelessly addicted to NOT working, and being a sneak, as in sneaking around not telling us where he is, ambushing the house at 3 pm when we 'think' he is at work (never saying I am on my way home, need anything, just appears in the kitchen out of no where mid day), sneaking and hiding food, stuffing his face in the kitchen eating the last of the kids food, 'accidentally' using a debit card on fast food forgetting its the card we are NEVER to use only for emergencies, it will have charge after charge for 5 guys, pizza, doughnuts.  When I say that debit card is only to be used for utilities bills, stop using it, he will start whining and pouting, sulking for days, slamming doors, saying "guess I am just a loser, forget it, forget it I guess I can't eat."    So, now I say nothing, and just plan my exit...

He is also addicted to lying about where he is, my son will call him during the day and accidentally FaceTime and PDH will say he is at 'work' and my son will say but there are trees behind you, are you in the woods, he is hiding in the woods (hiking/mid day, weekdays) always lying ...like a naughty teenager.  His parents are both alcoholics so being a child of alcoholics he has developed bizarre pathological behaviors. 

I am not psychiatrist but he seems to have a deep need to 'feel shame' - eating all your sons food so they don't have any (getting caught, getting 'scolded for doing this to your sons AGAIN' = shame, spending money you don't have, unable to provide for your family (b/c you spend the little you earn on yourself) = feeling shame, getting so drunk you do horrendous things = shame, sneaking and hiding alcohol all over my house, behind walls, in boxes in the basement...the thrill of the sneak, the getting caught to feel shame = is real..

The marriage has felt like being married to a naughty out of control teenager, thus the 'marriage' part died very early on, but by then I had two kids...this is a parent/child marriage in which I am the only one holding the family together as he tries everything he can to derail my children..which is why there is no relationship between him and I anymore.  I have no respect for him whatsoever...and I never will..he's done too much, never stops..

*He is only in my home due to our sons.  I have no interest in him, separate bedrooms since his first bk...my disgust for him - because he never changed - stayed on disgust.  He never changed, he actually got worse.

The biggest addiction is NOT working, not earning, while spending out of control and NEVER trying to get a better job, or get a 2nd job, to pay down debts or provide for his family.

At most he works 10 hours a week at a PT sales job, that does provide our family with medical insurance, and contributes 2k a month for groceries and some utilities, for a family of 4.  Not a single dollar more.  I provide everything else.  He has 158 hours of the 168 hour week EMPTY and does NOTHING with them but stare at his phone, drive hours away to 'hike', and when he is home, will sit from 5-10 staring at his phone and the television not helping my sons with even their homework.

*no I don't plan on staying married much longer.

But the long and the short; yes, PD and additions (multiple additions) go hand in hand..keep up your MC, which is what I am doing, I don't engage in conversation, nod, walk away, focus on myself, my job, my kids...

[Frankie14]

*addictions (autotype kept changing it to additions)..

[BettyGray]

I had some thoughts after my last post here on dealing with someone else’s addiction.

When looking at the situation honestly- really honestly- we need to look at who is and how they (knowingly and unknowingly) enable the addiction. Denial can run both ways. This may not be a popular opinion, but even we can play a role  in enabling things, especially if we are scared of confronting the addict with their behavior or facing our own addictions.

I realized that by drinking every evening with him (even if it was  just a couple of drinks), I was still participating. After failed attempts to curb it (weekends only), I just got tired of fighting it. I started to drink more, too.

His family enabled it. Both families had regular drinkers, social lives built around drinking, going to happy hours. There were always parties at someone’s house.  His parents divorced and remarried alcoholics whose drinking eventually caught up with them and contributed to their deaths. He had an uncle who drank himself to death. A cousin who nearly drank himself to death and got lucky enough to get a liver transplant. Another cousin committed suicide - drug overdose. When it is all around you, and always has been part of your normal, it’s hard to see it clearly.

Our culture enables and promotes drinking as cool, fun, and necessary. There was a time on American tv when it was rare to see characters imbibing in the regular. Now it is hard to avoid. Then there is the whole mommy wine phenomenon- day drinking is ok and essential to raising kids. Scary.

I didn’t understand, in real time, exactly how much damage alcohol was doing to me, him, and those around us. I never thought it would turn into a life threatening thing. Denial.


There is also a weird vibe when you tell people around you that you no longer drink. They look at you like you are an alien life form, get super uncomfortable and defensive, like you are judging them. Somehow it is more shameful or ostracizing to admit you’re sober.

Do you agree about enablers?