Conspiracy theories and PD

[brokenwing]

Hello again everyone.  This question has recently become really important in  my life.  My uPDh is a whole conspiracy theorist.  I didn't notice it as much until Covid started.  But for example: it seems like I first noticed it when Covid first hit our area, and mask mandates became a thing.  My uPDh would REFUSE to wear a mask.  He'd say Covid is not real,  its big government trying to make us fall in line.  I had to have a very basic conversation with him about it.  I'd say "Listen, you can either go in the store with a mask on, or you can choose not to go in the store.  You're not entitled to run around the store without a mask on."  He has since started to relent on that issue.  Next would be the election.  He goes down absolute rabbit holes for days chasing some detail.  And he truly holds his beliefs no matter how easy it is to debunk.  He is relentless in his ideas and he will not budge.  Case in point.  The superbowl last night.  We were watching the game and there was some commercial on about uniting the country, etc... and he said out loud, to no one in particular "This country will NOT unite because you only want to unite us as sheep"

Sometimes when he does this, I can't help but wonder why he feels so divisive about everything.  Is he just naturally a contrarian?  Is this a PD characteristic?  99% of the time I will just leave him be, as it's not worth the fighting that will certainly ensue... but every once in a while I want to just shake him and tell him to come back to earth. 

Can anyone tell me if this is a PD characteristic?

[GettingOOTF]

My ex was not a conspiracy theorist at all but I had a friend who was. It was strange as she appeared rational in all other areas of her life. This was years ago. We are no longer friends. It started with her one day causally saying that school shootings aren’t real. That one in particular was faked. Over time she’s get really worked up to the point of shouting about all kinds of improbable scenarios. I ended the friendship specifically over this.

My personal view is that this is how these people deal with anxiety. I find them terrifying as they are not grounded in reality. I find them unpredictable. In many cases where a man kills his family it comes out that he believed some kind of conspiracy theory. 

I think skepticism is healthy but there is a line. It does seem that once that line is crossed there’s no coming back. I haven’t noticed conspiracy theories to be common amount PDs but that doesn’t mean your husband doesn’t have a PD or underlying psychiatric issue. I’d caution you to be careful around him. There is a lot of this floating around right now and many people are under a lot of pressure anyway.

[SonofThunder]

Hello Brokenwing,

My short opinion is that if the types of attempted 'control' that your spouse is referring to, has happened in some form in the past, anywhere in the world, then it is truly possible to be attempted again.   

We here at Out of the FOG have experienced control and manipulation and so we are very cautious not to become sheep again with other people who try to 'shepherd' us into believing that we should put up with abuse designed to prop-up the abuser. 

I personally don't consider conspiracy theory interests to be directly related to PD, but since PDs are self-focused, I can understand why PD's are so sensitive to the thoughts of control.   The terrible hypocrisy is that PD's attempt to manipulate and control others in order to attempt to control their own experiences,  and use their abuse of others to provide cover for their shortfalls or to acquire selfish gain. 

Plenty of governing bodies and governing individuals have also done this through the ages as well...

Shepherding myself,

SoT

[Boat Babe]

The last PD in my life was a conspiracy afficianado.   Delusional thinking and paranoia came easily to him so I am not surprised.  There's a lot being written about the phenomenon at the moment. Personally I think it's very dangerous, given the history of these occasional mass delusions.

[Andeza]

I believe that "magical thinking" is available as a common trait in the toolbox. Which, is where certain conspiracy theories belong for sure. In my experience, we only had one guy in the family that was prone to this stuff, and still is, even though all the aunts and uncles back in the day used to whine it was just a phase he'd grow out of. Yeah, never happened. So there he is, almost middle aged now, and still ranting and raving various conspiracy theories that leave me facepalming privately. Some conspiracy theorists are PD as well, some aren't. It's not mutually exclusive.

This one, not dangerous. Others? They certainly can be. Especially if their theories are refuted. It's somewhat like telling someone with dementia that you're their kid even if they can't remember you. There's not necessarily a good way to do that without upsetting the delicate internal balance and triggering dangerous, even potentially violent, behavior.

Things that you hint at indicate to me that other issues are also in play, issues that we unfortunately cannot discuss here. But in a roundabout sort of way, I can say that what he's prone to right now, is not in the least surprising. As for dealing with it? Well, it's easy when it's a relative across the country that you see once every couple of years, not so much when it's someone you live with. Best advice? Maintain your truth, cautiously.

[Honey_B]

My PD mother is way into conspiracy theories. In the last 6 months, she has gone fully into everything QAnon. She believes DT was selected by God and that he will be reelected on March 4th and that the military is currently in control of the White House. The Clintons will soon be executed. And she is not even American!

I went NC with her 3 months ago. She was always into magical thinking, however, I think she gets a huge narcissistic payoff from the conspiracy crowd. It feeds her ego, that she knows "something" that the rest of the world does not know. It makes her feel important that she "knows the truth" whereas all the rest of us are "manipulated by the media". This feeling is a like a drug to narcs.

If anyone objects to her conspiracies, she will rage, call them stupid and tell them to go "do their research", e.g. watch conspiracy videos on youtube 

She has a ton of new "friends" on facebook, other conspiracy nuts, who give likes to everything she posts. She loves it! Its her new narcissistic supply 

[brokenwing]

I don't know what to do anymore.  I'm at my wits end.  He will spout conspiracies, and then somewhat "braid" them into our life together.  So, one example. This morning he was ranting about a particular congresswoman/senator who has come out after the capital attacks and said that the capitol attacks really triggered past trauma of sexual assault.  uPDh heard that she didn't even have an office in that building and she wasn't even there when it happened, so in his mind, she's lying about her prior sexual assault too (not that she's lying about either).  And here I sit, a past victim of sexual assault.  And then he takes it a step further and far more personal.  Women aren't sexually assaulted, he says.  He said he never believed me when I said that I was.  ALL women are liars.  and then he will say I am the REASON he never believes women who have been raped.  We're all liars

[GettingOOTF]

What I came to see is that you cannot convince anyone of anything they don't want to see themselves.

I ultimately chose to leave my marriage. To me it wasn't worth everything I had to accept to stay in it.

To me it also doesn't matter if someone's behavior is because of a PD or any other reason. What matters to me is the actual behaviors. In my view it makes it worse if the behaviors are a result of a PD because it means there is minimal chance of the behavior ever changing.

My issue with this section of the forums is that we come here looking for validation and solidarity. The fact that others go through the same thing  (or worse) makes it easier for us to accept things that we may otherwise not.

Only you know what is best for your situation. If you decide to stay you will likely find more peace by finding a way to live with his behavior, this can mean Grey Rock or setting boundaries like "I will leave the room if you bring up X subject".

The thing with conspiracy theories is that there is always a new one. This behavior is more likely to escalate than to resolve itself.

I'll do my usual plug for reading Codependent No More. It really helped me learn to deal with these situations.

[1footouttadefog]

I think both pds and non pds can be suseptable to conspiracy theories.

I think with a pd they will use their believe to justify pd behaviours, being controlling, abusive, racist, etc  and a non pd might use their belief to prepare themselves, avoid percieved danger etc.

I love conspiracy theories.  I find them to be better than any soap opera or sit com or reality tv.  They are like organically evolving story lines that morph with the events that play out in  real time.

I have seen the 911 documentaries and there are questions there that many rational logical people would ask, but I cannot accept the info in them as a whole. 

The Q anon thing is also facinating.  Who funds all the nice videos that look like campaign ads.  Who is behind it all woth the websites that track it all and the youtubers and such that make a living talking about it all.  Facinating.

I have seen some full production doncumentary videos about school shootings and crisis actors etc.  They are well made and pretty convincing, who made and funded them.

I read both right and left wing discussion groups that discuss conspiracies.

I notice that folks in both camps have the same complaints.  The same fears.  The same distrust, and come to the same conclusions about the "other side"

I have concluded that a great many people, myself included, feel lied to by media and politicians.  I personally feel like I am being gaslighted and like I am detecting PD maniputations and abuse techniques in the public forums with all the name calling and the lack of data and logical conclusions used in public discourse.  The constant appeal to emotion and the divisionary tactics when common sense and compromise are called for is tiring.  I think people they seek are definative source of info to clarify the uncertainties they feel.  This may make them vulnerable to information intended to appeal to such.

People are feeling anxiety over a world that is changing rapidly.  In some cases its not possible to assimilate the changes quickly enough to avoid negative life impacts.  People feel setup, betrayed, estranged, disenfranchised, and experiemce cognative disonance.

In seeking answers for questions notn answered or even caised by media, news, and politics its notnhard to stumble onto conspiracy related information.  I feel thst conspiracies have as part of their core some truth and offer explainations for things that happen and allow those who subscribe to them to avoid to an even greater fear.  For example the possibility that things can happen randomly and entirelybout of your control despite hownorbwhere you live.

[SonofThunder]

I think both pds and non pds can be suseptable to conspiracy theories.

I think with a pd they will use their believe to justify pd behaviours, being controlling, abusive, racist, etc  and a non pd might use their belief to prepare themselves, avoid percieved danger etc.

I love conspiracy theories.  I find them to be better than any soap opera or sit com or reality tv.  They are like organically evolving story lines that morph with the events that play out in  real time.

I have seen the 911 documentaries and there are questions there that many rational logical people would ask, but I cannot accept the info in them as a whole. 

The Q anon thing is also facinating.  Who funds all the nice videos that look like campaign ads.  Who is behind it all woth the websites that track it all and the youtubers and such that make a living talking about it all.  Facinating.

I have seen some full production doncumentary videos about school shootings and crisis actors etc.  They are well made and pretty convincing, who made and funded them.

I read both right and left wing discussion groups that discuss conspiracies.

I notice that folks in both camps have the same complaints.  The same fears.  The same distrust, and come to the same conclusions about the "other side"

I have concluded that a great many people, myself included, feel lied to by media and politicians.  I personally feel like I am being gaslighted and like I am detecting PD maniputations and abuse techniques in the public forums with all the name calling and the lack of data and logical conclusions used in public discourse.  The constant appeal to emotion and the divisionary tactics when common sense and compromise are called for is tiring.  I think people they seek are definative source of info to clarify the uncertainties they feel.  This may make them vulnerable to information intended to appeal to such.

People are feeling anxiety over a world that is changing rapidly.  In some cases its not possible to assimilate the changes quickly enough to avoid negative life impacts.  People feel setup, betrayed, estranged, disenfranchised, and experiemce cognative disonance.

In seeking answers for questions notn answered or even caised by media, news, and politics its notnhard to stumble onto conspiracy related information.  I feel thst conspiracies have as part of their core some truth and offer explainations for things that happen and allow those who subscribe to them to avoid to an even greater fear.  For example the possibility that things can happen randomly and entirelybout of your control despite hownorbwhere you live.

1Foot,

I agree with you and you nicely detailed your opinions.  I also find conspiracy theories interesting in the ways you explained, but for me personally, if i choose to go down that 'rabbit hole' of educating myself on specific theories, i find myself in a mindset that i dont prefer, regarding humanity in general.   I consider myself a 'HSP' (highly sensitive person) male and having an active and very alert radar, i prefer to stay away from educating myself on the specific theories that arise. 

Instead, to self-regulate as best possible, i think back to a (not so long ago) time in history, prior to modern day communication of television, radio, internet and ask myself "what did most people living in that era, understand about their general area (state, county, province, region), country and  their world.   My conclusion is very little for most common folks like me.   And so therefore, most humans at that time and prior, focused on the local tasks at hand; the local community; their family; themselves.   That is what i choose, in order to better self regulate. 

With regard to PD's and theories, i agree with what you stated and experience it with my uPDw.   But i do not engage in discussions with my uPDw regarding them but simply acknowledge in MC that I heard her, understood her, and care for her (understood her interest and right to be interested in any subject she chooses).

I dont want to detour this thread, but personally, as a Christian, i find it interesting that the fall of man into sin in the garden of Eden (back as far as time will allow me to consider) was centered around Satan playing with creating a desire for humans to 'know more' than they were originally designed by God to know.   Satan sells them on their need and ability (God loved enough to provide freedom to choose) to know both good and evil (being more like God).  God did not originally design them to need to know both good and evil but only good.  God is capable of handling the evil, leaving mankind to focus on God, relationship with God and relationship with each other, in a human world of 'good'.  Therefore, i try not to focus on the evil, but must protect myself from evil, therefore must be highly educated on the evil that i face in my life. 

With regard to conspiracy theories therefore, i choose to not educate, but simply be aware they exist, and remain focused on the tasks in my local wheelhouse. 

SoT

[Spirit in the sky]

Hi Broken Wing,

I totally understand where you are coming from. When the lockdown and restrictions started both my hubby and his mother had a meltdown. They both like to be in control and when they thought that control was being taken away from them they rebelled big time.

They judged and mocked people for being afraid of the virus when really they were just as afraid of losing their freedom as they call it. I have a certain amount of empathy for them but the more I try and be reasonable or rational the more they tell me I'm weak and easily fooled.

Which is probably true as my MIL emotionally abused me for 18 years until I went vvvvlc. I'm trying to have patience with my hubby and I had hoped he would calm down but the more he watches the conspiracy theories the worse he gets. It's like they fuel his anger/fear.

His latest thing is saying he's going to commit suicide, which he has no intention of going. It's just something he says when he does get his own way. Supposedly I don't care so he's refusing to speak to me.

Hello again everyone.  This question has recently become really important in  my life.  My uPDh is a whole conspiracy theorist.  I didn't notice it as much until Covid started.  But for example: it seems like I first noticed it when Covid first hit our area, and mask mandates became a thing.  My uPDh would REFUSE to wear a mask.  He'd say Covid is not real,  its big government trying to make us fall in line.  I had to have a very basic conversation with him about it.  I'd say "Listen, you can either go in the store with a mask on, or you can choose not to go in the store.  You're not entitled to run around the store without a mask on."  He has since started to relent on that issue.  Next would be the election.  He goes down absolute rabbit holes for days chasing some detail.  And he truly holds his beliefs no matter how easy it is to debunk.  He is relentless in his ideas and he will not budge.  Case in point.  The superbowl last night.  We were watching the game and there was some commercial on about uniting the country, etc... and he said out loud, to no one in particular "This country will NOT unite because you only want to unite us as sheep"

Sometimes when he does this, I can't help but wonder why he feels so divisive about everything.  Is he just naturally a contrarian?  Is this a PD characteristic?  99% of the time I will just leave him be, as it's not worth the fighting that will certainly ensue... but every once in a while I want to just shake him and tell him to come back to earth. 

Can anyone tell me if this is a PD characteristic?