What does it mean to have no identity (in BPD)?

[square]

I get the NPD identity problem - it's based on the cultivation of a false self. So of course in your search for an ideal self to project, your true self gets totally lost and forgotten.

But with BPD without N traits, what is it like? What causes it?

My H has BPD traits but he doesn't have the "shifting" identity that is typical. His moods are unstable of course, but the things I perceive as his identity are stable. Yet, he has told me that he doesn't feel like anyone, doesn't know who he is.

I don't understand that. I feel like he is a unique individual, and that he at least used to have interests and values and a particular sense of humor and so on.

I also used to know a diagnosed BPD who said the same thing (he too was not unstable in identity, just felt he didn't have one). Likewise, he seemed very unique and identifiable to me.

I clearly don't understand what they mean. Anyone have any insight, firsthand or otherwise?

[tragedy or hope]

IMO...
my understanding is that they may take on traits by observation of others.. things that appeal to them and that others approve of. For instance... my unpdh observes others.
when positive things are said about someone, he takes on that part of personality. simply, we saw a movie where someone loved blueberry pancakes and made a big deal out of them. Unpdh has since loved blueberry pancakes and makes sure when he eats them to let others know how much he likes them. years before, he never ate them.

A family member is extremely outgoing and friendly.. she is very loveable and is spoken about as such.. unpdh suddenly started to be very friendly wherever we go.. used to be withdrawn and not want to talk to people.

again, he has observed me being encouraging... over a period of time, he learned my language and repeats some of my ways with others he knows in relationships that don't include me so the person does not know it came from me. when with me he behaves as if he could care less about people. if they call, he is all over it with kindness etc.

I have compassion about most of this but sometimes it gets under my skin. It must be terrible to not know who you are or what you really feel.

I hope this helps you to understand. these are only my observations.

[xredshoesx]

my biological mother always 'shifted' to whatever the interests were of her current love interest.  she could flip from soccer mom to biker babe with a flip of the head. 

it reminds me of a teenager trying out different cliques and groups in school to see where they fit-  but in my mom's case she never had true fit.

[blunk]

This was something that my bpdxh described about himself. When he was stressed or anxious, he would often repeat (almost a chant) to himself...I am nothing, I am nobody. I didn't understand either. He also said things like he had never been truly happy in his whole life, I was shocked. I thought, we're all happy sometimes...right?

Once I started thinking about it, I realized that the lack of identity was probably the reason he had so many interests, hobbies, and jobs. He would be into whatever it was to the exclusion of all else, but it never seemed to last very long. In the 20 years I knew him he went to school 3-4 different times, only completing one program, and never worked a day in that field. He had more than 10 jobs in that timeframe, sometimes being fired (never his fault), sometimes quitting over a perceived slight, and was on unemployment multiple times. One of those lasted more than 2 years, because he wanted to "screw the company like they screwed him", which doesn't even make sense. As for hobbies, I can't even count. But he'd have to buy every possible supply for that hobby, just to have them sit and collect dust after a couple weeks or a month.

IMO, none of these stuck, because none of them were truly "him". And I feel like that stems from him not really knowing himself, trying one thing after another to see if any of them felt right. It must be a terrible way to live.

[square]

Interesting.

My H doesn't shift around or adopt other personalities.

But perhaps the "I am nothing" is what he feels?

There is something specific he would like to be but it has not worked out. This specific thing has not changed. But since he has not succeeded at it, I guess he feels like nothing.

I dunno, to me it's different feeling like "a failure" than "nobody/nothing."

I am a huge failure. I am disabled, have not worked for a while, am nearly useless, and am almost certainly mocked when in public. I still feel like a person, with interests and values and ideas. Even ignoring my VALUE, I'm still UNIQUE and identifiable from others.

Depression seems to take personality and motivation away, maybe it's like that?

Is my H saying he feels like nobody a totally unrelated thing to the BPD flitting around with hobbies and styles and stories or is it a variation of that though he does not adopt the personas of others at all?

[Sapling]

Great thread Square. I'm also interested in the question as years ago I dated someone who I thought was uBPD. Like tragedy or hope said, I noticed that they observed and copied the behaviors of others. It took me a little while to see this. When I first met them, they seemed mature beyond their years, very together, very sure of who they were and what they wanted. But once I started meeting their friends, I realised they copied attitudes, gestures, phrases from the often older and more experienced friends they had. This was also why they couldn't really back up their opinions with corresponding action. It was also a bit disconcerting to see the way they mimicked other people's body language. But it makes sense that with no real sense of self to express, they simply watch and do what others do hoping to fit in enough to get some of their needs met.

[Lauren17]

Square, you are not a failure.  You are not useless.  I've seen from  your posts that you are a loving and caring mother.  Your words and insights here have helped me more than once.

From what I've observed, I don't think that H doesn't have his own identity so much as lack of self esteem.  If he doesn't like himself, why would any body else?  So he picks up and copies behaviors of people who are liked.

The blueberry pancakes thing that TOH describes is a common theme with uBPDh.  Most of his personality is copied from TV and movies.  In the past, I've called him on it.  "But, honey, you don't even like blueberries"  Oh, the outrage!  He loves blueberries, always has!  How could his wife of so many years not know that?!  This is one of many things that I just let pass without comment.

[Rose1]

Exbpdh took on the values,  mannerisms of people he was around. When he was with me we agreed on a lot of issues for years including child rearing.  When he left it was like none of these values were ever part of his personality.

After he left it got worse and varied with whoever he was dating.  It got to the stage i think of his "dancer period", "lawyer period" "uni student period" and since he remarried his "biker period ". None of these were even remotely close to the image he presented during the first 10 years or so of our marriage, or to each other period for that matter. His beliefs changed. His attitudes to law etc. Quite fundamental.

He told me once that he watches what people do so as not to make mistakes in public at restaurants etc because his parents didn't teach him this stuff. Which was true, but it was a lot deeper than that.

[Hazy111]

I think the false self or selves is completely adaptable to the immediate environment and who they are in contact with. So they can become all things to all people and back again.

I know a guy and he is really nice and warm and engaging and i dont know anyone who doesnt like him. He smiles , flatters , extremely polite. etc. The renowned fake charm of the narcissist??

But ive observed him bend like bamboo in particular situations with certain people. Hes like a human cushion, reflecting the last person who sat on him.  Some leave a large indentation others barely a mark.

He agrees with one person on a certain subject and the next thing hes agreeing with someone with polar opposite views. I  think he really wants the person hes talking to think hes authoritative, but often makes stuff up or contradicts himself. You can see hes out of his depth on some subjects but he ploughs on. Its like a desperation to be liked or admired.

With others he can relax more knowing the people hes now talking to hes on firmer ground. 

I  think he does this to garner "narcissistic supply" attention of any sort. I think he fears that if he disagrees the person will ignore/reject him.

Like previously said such a person lacks true self esteem and is insecure because they dont know their "real selves" . Their fragile ego relies on "others" view of themselves and not their "own" view of themselves. They dont have a stable inner core, its fragmented and unstable.

Who am i  ? I am whatever others think of me.

[Rose1]

This could also explain sudden bursts of anger and sudden rejection of people. With vague "they did me wrong" but nothing concrete as a reason.

[1footouttadefog]

I had problems with the BPD thing regarding PDH.  He shares many traights.

However some don't line up as much.  When I doscovered covert narcissism things began to mKe more sense.

I think true cluster B pds have a lot of overlaps