Partners just don't understand

[frogjumpsout]

Hi everyone,

So, I'm getting close to a year of NC with my abusive NM and although my partner said he thought it was a "legit" decision at the time, we keep having little exchanges that reveal he actually doesn't understand the permanence or the seriousness of that decision -- or maybe that he considers it an un-generous one. 

Recently, she tried to communicate with me in several ways and he seemed surprised that I wasn't going to respond at all, not even to decline an invitation. This threw me into some self-doubt and I'm frustrated with our dynamic here.

He's said a few times that although he supports the decision, he wouldn't have made it himself, instead relying on strong boundaries and "not caring." Of course, as he also has said, he can't imagine himself into a situation of actually being me -- with the effects of the abuse, which might make his preferred approach impossible.

I definitely don't want to once again explain to him my reasons or go through the things she did that led me to NC (some of which he saw but didn't understand -- she's very covert.) He would say that he knows and understands all that.

But I wonder how other people in similar situations -- with a partner who had more typical parents and cannot bring himself to understand, move forward as FOO continues to try to re-establish contact, sometimes reaching out to the partner, too. Do you avoid the subject? Find affirmation elsewhere? Let go of the expectation of full understanding?

Thanks very much for reading!

(The title of this post is a reference to a very old, corny hip-hop song which I thought was the bee's knees in middle school.)

[notrightinthehead]

I understand your frustration. Having grown up in a toxic environment, we might not have learned that it is ok not to agree with people close to us. It is in the nature of toxic relationships that we become enmeshed.
The way I would handle your situation - I would look at my own need for my partner to agree with my stance. I would look at my uncomfortable feeling because of  his different opinion. In my case, being faced with a differing opinion from my partner would make me doubt my own view. I would want to convince him in order to make sure I am right - needing this external validation because my opinion alone is not good enough. I might feel rejected and abandoned because of his differing opinion.
The work: Telling myself that I have a right to my own opinion, even if my partner disagrees. Telling myself that he has a right to his opinion, even if I disagree. Learning to tolerate/endure the uncomfortableness that comes with this disagreement while sticking to my opinion. Validating myself and believing myself that my decision is right for me and that I need nobody's approval because nobody knows better than me, what I need in this very moment.

[nanotech]

My partner is supportive of my LC/NC but he didn't see it for decades. Then when he saw it he still thought I had a duty to the abusers.
I think the overfunctioning both of us were previously doing also fulfilled some of the emotional needs he had. His large and pretty functional family all live halfway round the world, and so the contact is limited by that. Has been for decades. So he threw everything into my family, who of course lapped that up.
Then something happened. An illness, a death, ( BODmum) and all of the masks came off.
Hubby is now on side!
And yet......
UNPDsis was ill a few months ago. I was amazed to hear him ask me to contact her. My  grown son said so too.
' She's your sister.'
I just said ' I hear you '
Then I passed the salt, changed the topic to admiring the food in front of us ( hubby had cooked it !)  and then I quietly got on with my NC.
So.... It sort of gets better, but it may  always be a work in progress.

If they haven't had to it happen to them, they'll never fully get it.  Not in my view.

But if it's mostly okay, then just hear them out a little......
and then calmly get on with not contacting them. It's your life and your recovery and  YOUR healing process.

[nanotech]

I understand your frustration. Having grown up in a toxic environment, we might not have learned that it is ok not to agree with people close to us. It is in the nature of toxic relationships that we become enmeshed.
The way I would handle your situation - I would look at my own need for my partner to agree with my stance. I would look at my uncomfortable feeling because of  his different opinion. In my case, being faced with a differing opinion from my partner would make me doubt my own view. I would want to convince him in order to make sure I am right - needing this external validation because my opinion alone is not good enough. I might feel rejected and abandoned because of his differing opinion.
The work: Telling myself that I have a right to my own opinion, even if my partner disagrees. Telling myself that he has a right to his opinion, even if I disagree. Learning to tolerate/endure the uncomfortableness that comes with this disagreement while sticking to my opinion. Validating myself and believing myself that my decision is right for me and that I need nobody's approval because nobody knows better than me, what I need in this very moment.

I love these comments nrith , especially about our having been conditioned to agree with the people we were close to. Then yes we may well apply that to our chosen relationship's in order to feel that 'safety' .
I'd never thought about that, but of course! 

[blacksheep7]

My dh also had approved my decision of  going nc with NM which entailed my sibs to avoid me, nc.

After one year he had mentionned that maybe I could have a relationship with boundaries, just like your partner.  It shocked me and I told him so.  I felt that I didn't have his support.

Long story short, I explained that he hadn't lived in my shoes for the last forty years of the emotional abuse added to NF's.  I had to process the anger that I had towards dh telling myself exactly what I had said.....he didn't walk in my shoes.  He could not understand how I felt.  Today, after 4.5 yrs nc, it's not a conversation anymore.
It's just like this forum, we understand each other because of our similar experiences.

We have to trust how we feel, how other people make us feel and accept that we can't make everyone understand.

If you decided to go nc, it is because you had no other option for you mental health and happiness.

[frogjumpsout]

Thanks so much, blacksheep, nanotech, and notrightinthehead! I've been reading and re-reading your comments all day. It's very comforting to hear from people who understand.

[nanotech]

 



❤️😊🥰xxxxx

[DistanceNotDefense]

I'm late to this but wanted to jump in and say that this has very much been the case for me and my marriage, frogjumpsout. (I've been NC just over a year).

Our partners don't understand because their whole lives, they have been *properly* conditioned that loved ones return generosity with more generosity and understanding in kind. That it eventually gets you "somewhere." That is the healthy way people are raised and how healthy human relationships work.

But that's not the case for us - our generosity is lapped up, felt entitled to, and then we are abandoned afterwards. Generosity leads us nowhere, only to hurt.

"Relying on boundaries and just 'not caring' " - Wow! I will just not care, and now I am cured. Abuse goes beyond the ability to "not care." It wreaks havoc and damage at very deep psychological levels we're not aware of. It gets through our intellectual defenses. If that was a switch we could all flip, to just not care about how we were hurt or what people did to us, then we would see no abused or damaged people walking around if the ability to "not care" was that easy - the psychotherapy/psychopharmacology industry would go broke and shut down.

No one would choose to care! What a fantasy.

Also, what is the point of having a relationship with someone who you have to do exhaustive boundary work with when you know they don't care about you anyway? What's the payoff? You're NC for a good reason!

My DH took this stance ("not caring") and it backfired on him in the worst way. Because he was being abused by my FOO too - it wasn't just me.

And that abuse got through to him even though he claimed he didn't care. His mental health has avalanched into an impasse this last year and he's finally starting to realize how horrific gaslighting is.

I think others' opinions here are gold. He has a right to his opinion and you to yours, so the most you can do is agree to disagree and change the subject. Find affirmation elsewhere....like here. This is the only place for me that had helped.

But don't worry and also know that the truth will always out. At some point your partner will probably see or notice something that makes him realize that this is more hurtful and painful than he ever realized and beyond his understanding....it may come at a moment where he gets hurt by your FOO, possibly, as in the case with my DH.

[Sidney37]

My DH sees why I should be NC with my PDm and maybe my enD, but thinks that I should be keeping in contact with my enabling cousins who are definitely flying monkeys and have sharply criticized my decisions well before my NC - my parenting, cooking, clothing choices, music choices, etc.  The other cousin has ignored my attempts to be in contact.  DH thinks I should just try harder.   

[JustKathy]

My husband doesn't get it at all. He was okay with my decision to go NC with my mother because, honestly, I don't think he wanted to be around my family. The only interaction he ever had with my parents were holiday visits, which were basically a day of my mother literally screaming for attention.

The problem I've had is his inability to understand the trauma aspect of it. There are a lot of horrific things that happened to me as a child that I haven't discussed with him because he won't be able to relate to the lasting impact those events have had on me. Someone who isn't suffering from trauma themselves doesn't know what it's like. I have severe anxiety, and he also doesn't understand what that's like, especially since I look just fine on the outside. I also think that a lot of people who haven't experienced emotional abuse believe that it's possible to get over it with time and why are we still upset thirty or forty years later?

After I went NC with my enFather he made a lot of hoovering attempts that really upset me. My emotions were all over the place because, while I had walked away, I still wanted my father's love. My husband didn't get that at all. He'd say things like, "Why are you letting that a-hole get to you," not understanding that "the a-hole" was still my dad, no matter how badly he had treated me. My husband acted like the whole thing should have been very black-and-white. I was either hurt or I wasn't.

I recently found out that my enFather passed away and have not yet told my husband because I'm afraid he'll blurt out some insensitive thing that will make the situation more painful. That's been really hard for me. Sometimes I'm furious that my husband isn't supporting me the way my therapist does, but I flip-flop from being angry with him to realizing that he just doesn't understand any of it. I don't get the appropriate response from him because he really doesn't know what the appropriate response should be. If I had grown up in a perfect little "Leave It To Beaver" household I suppose I wouldn't get it either. 

On a lighter note, I do appreciate the shout-out to DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince. 

[Pepin]

At the beginning my husband kept telling me to take the high road: oh, but he's your dad.   

What my husband does not understand is what I have been through and what it took for me to SURVIVE. 

Why does my husband not understand?  Because he has unresolved trauma in his life as well.  I won't rehash everything about DH and his upbringing but I will say that he grew up poor and money is a driving factor for him.  My father has money.  DH wants me to have a relationship with an abuser for the sole purpose of inheriting.  NO.

DH uses his being poor in the past as the story he shares with everyone.  He doesn't acknowledge all the dysfunction that went along with being poor and why they were poor.  He doesn't share the fact that he was a significant driving force as a young man who helped pull his parents out of poverty.  He was groomed to be a massive enabler...and that is why he also cannot see why I went no contact with my father.   

I recently made a sad discovery about my mother as well.  I have not told DH about this.  I might tell him some day.  And he will finally understand why I operate the way that I do.  I am a lone wolf for all he cares.

[Happypants]

Something that's come up in a few youtube videos is the concept of "cognitive empathy".  It's written in the context of a narcissist being able to understand the logical "why" of emotional reactions on an intellectual level but not being able to experience it on an actual emotional level.  To me, this concept of "cognitive empathy" could be flipped around to describe a non-pd trying to understand trauma inflicted by pds - the effects of such abuse can't be "learnt" on an emotional level so must be difficult to understand on an emotional level.  I guess as long as there's a willingness to listen on their part, and a willingness to accept (on my part) that they'll never truly feel what I feel about certain people, then I can still progress on the journey.  And obviously, this forum is a lifesaver......

[Amedee]

I can relate to each one of these posts.

Notrightinthehead, what you write about doubting your own views in the face of your partner's differing opinion .... that continues to be a big learning curve for me.  For decades I wholeheartedly bought into the "fact" of my own defectiveness and personal deficiencies as compared to the rest of my very "nice" family.  It was just a given, as long as I can remember.  Although I couldn't have told you for sure what these contemptible traits were.  I was always trying to figure out what it was, so I could fix it.  It's a hard habit to break.  My self doubt is a weak spot. 

The fact is, I'm super responsible and conscientious and  have always been rather well liked and valued - outside of my family - but the brain washing is hard to shake.  As part of my healing journey I had to cut off my family a few years ago - to literally preserve my sanity.  It's a lonely road, with almost no validation and support IRL.  My H means well, but simply has no idea of how incredibly hard and sad this is.  Like some of the others here, I won't discuss anything regarding my family with him because it's too triggering.  It's not an ideal solution ... cutting off my feelings for family is causing my other emotions to become dampened too.  I'm aware of an overall emotional numbness that is due to this.  Part of the journey, I suppose.  Still preferable to what was before.

[nanotech]

Something that's come up in a few youtube videos is the concept of "cognitive empathy".  It's written in the context of a narcissist being able to understand the logical "why" of emotional reactions on an intellectual level but not being able to experience it on an actual emotional level.  To me, this concept of "cognitive empathy" could be flipped around to describe a non-pd trying to understand trauma inflicted by pds - the effects of such abuse can't be "learnt" on an emotional level so must be difficult to understand on an emotional level.  I guess as long as there's a willingness to listen on their part, and a willingness to accept (on my part) that they'll never truly feel what I feel about certain people, then I can still progress on the journey.  And obviously, this forum is a lifesaver......

Love this about cognitive empathy. How well described!
Yep in terms of my dad- I've seen it so often.  He knows when society expects him to be empathic, and he obliges as far as he can. He's often late to the party with it. It often has to be  prompted by someone else's true expression of empathy, 
Yet his gut responses and the long lasting reactions too, to family illness/ death/ misfortune are always in regard to his own interests/ safety.
Coming somewhere in between slides the cognitive empathy.
It's enough sometimes, unfortunately, to persuade our partners into believing they really do care, and that we are being disengenous to think/ say otherwise.

Words are powerful, and PDs know how to use them. Also, gestures of caring sometimes can be a vehicle for ' caring '  -cards, flowers, public family get -togethers with gushing hugs etc. AllFake Fake fake as far as my lot are concerned.

Since I've put up my boundaries
( I stopped providing  nsupply during calls and/ or on social media) and stopped over functioning in general, it's they who have dropped contact to zero. Phonecalls from Nsis went from several a week to none.  I had to realise with shock that my expected fawning / fixing was the only thing keeping the relationships going.
I stopped providing Nsupply, I actually didn't stop offering contact.
They know they can ring me, but I've woken up to the dysfunction and it's no longer a blast if they do.
They knew this so well that they never even tried.
It's hard when you realise your family don't want to speak to you as loving family, just to see how you are?
For a while I still half hoped they would change.
  But they don't want the kind of contact where I'm treated with equal respect and shown unconditional love by them.
When a flying monkey pops up it's to challenge my lack of contact and of course, remind me how it's 'natural' to want to be in touch with my siblings. ( two toxic, one enabler).
I grey rock that.

We have to go through all of this realisation and hurt, and then we finally have to accept it and begin to move forward, putting things in place to rebuild our identity and our self esteem. It's really really hard for us. It takes us a long time.

Then some bright spark  will say,

'But it's your mum/ dad/ sister/ brother !'

You've gotta live it to understand it!

[frogjumpsout]

Oh my goodness, DND, thanks so much! I love your entire post, which offers so much understanding and hope. And especially this part, which affirms my rather persnickety feelings about his comments:

"Relying on boundaries and just 'not caring' " - Wow! I will just not care, and now I am cured. Abuse goes beyond the ability to "not care." It wreaks havoc and damage at very deep psychological levels we're not aware of. It gets through our intellectual defenses. If that was a switch we could all flip, to just not care about how we were hurt or what people did to us, then we would see no abused or damaged people walking around if the ability to "not care" was that easy - the psychotherapy/psychopharmacology industry would go broke and shut down.
. . .
Also, what is the point of having a relationship with someone who you have to do exhaustive boundary work with when you know they don't care about you anyway? What's the payoff? You're NC for a good reason!

I'm sorry that your husband had to go through the "family's" smear campaign in order to understand. It sounds horrible (and I've read about it when you're described it elsewhere.) But I'm also glad you have someone close to you who now gets it. Wishing him speedy healing (with your invaluable help!)

[frogjumpsout]

Sidney, how frustrating --  "just try harder" -- I won't speak for you, but I've been hearing and telling myself that my whole life!   

Thanks to everyone who responded -- just checking back now and really appreciating the recent comments!

[frogjumpsout]

JustKathy, thank you! And I'm so sorry to hear about enF's passing.

This is so wise:

The problem I've had is his inability to understand the trauma aspect of it. There are a lot of horrific things that happened to me as a child that I haven't discussed with him because he won't be able to relate to the lasting impact those events have had on me. Someone who isn't suffering from trauma themselves doesn't know what it's like. I have severe anxiety, and he also doesn't understand what that's like, especially since I look just fine on the outside. I also think that a lot of people who haven't experienced emotional abuse believe that it's possible to get over it with time and why are we still upset thirty or forty years later?

I wish a friend of mine, with a similar background and husband with a similar perspective, could read it. But his ideas have seeped into her so that she thinks she should be "over it," too, and won't visit forums like this one.

[My New Life]

I have been NC for 2 1/2 yrs with my NM.  Going NC with a parent is very difficult. Like most people on this site, I had exhausted all other options before going NC.  At the end of a life-time of struggle was the simple decision, would I continue to take the ongoing onslaught of emotional abuse?  After my father died, the answer to that question was no, I would not.  The decision was not made in anger - just sad resolve.  My last words to my mom were "I love you, Mom," and then I walked out of the door forever. 

I thought my husband understood, however the first time I began making Christmas plans without my NM, he seemed surprised.  He assumed I would still allow holiday visitation.  I am not sure how he thought that could happen.  Her anger is so violent and she was beyond angry with me for going NC, how did he think Christmas would work exactly?

My husband has been on the receiving end of her rages, but he never experienced them from the perspective of a child.  He was a full-grown man when he first witnessed them.  And my mother was just a crazy in-law.  The experience is crucially different.  While he might wish to avoid the rages because they were unpleasant; I was obsessed with avoiding them because my memory of them as a child, was terrifying.  I learned to do whatever was necessary to avoid them; then pretend like they had not happened.  It was survival. 

How does anyone understand that, who has not lived it?  Spouses may see what you are talking about, but I don't know that they will ever experience the rages, the manipulations, and the crazy-making, the way the child of a NM experiences them.  The fact that the hateful things are being said by your mother - in the voice you knew before you were even born - how could anyone understand how devastating that is?  Therefore, I don't know that they can truly understand. 
At first this made me feel more isolated, like even my husband couldn't understand.  But now I just ask that he respect my decision.  Which he does.
You Can't Always Get What You Want But...You Get What You Need  (my song title in answer to your song title:)

[frogjumpsout]

Just popping back in to thank everyone who's commented here since I last checked: Pepin, Amedee, nanotech, and My New Life. I really appreciate your comments and am just too brain-fried to respond in any intelligible way! (Family and house stuff.)

[frogjumpsout]

Oh, and HappyPants!