NMum cut me off for 4 months, now shes back...

[wesorya]

Hi there all
Four months ago, after 18 months of increasingly awful behaviour, as I began to set boundaries and move from LC to VLC with my uPD Mum, I got a message which seemed to actually get me off the hook.

The paraphrased version is that (in response to me asking her to communicate with me directly if there was something that upset her, rather than getting eDad involved in it) since I was 14, she and I have not had a relationship, and that she had hoped until recently that it may be possible. Also that if I insist on having a positive relationship with her in order for her to spend time with my kids, that she supposes that will just not be possible. She then also said that she sees me as suspicious of even close family members, relishing my victimhood, and controlling in all that I do.

AFter reading a bit on here, I can see that the message was actually meant to be a final prod and attempt to provoke an angry/emotional reaction from me, to have me argue all her ridiculous statements - to show how upset and hurt I am that she would state that all of our interactions over the past 25 years have meant nothing to her - or to bolster her ego and toe the line by attempting to convince her that our interactions over the past 25 years have been meaningful and that she is special and important.
I have learnt from endless experience that either of the reaction options are utterly pointless. If I show sadness, she just uses my "weakness" against me, If I show anger/frustration, it is evidence that she is the victim, if I bolster her ego, I buy myself an unknown amount of time in her good books, before being turned on/ignored/dismissed/belittled/held up to ridiculous standards etc again.

So I did none of those things. I replied that I noted her accusations and hostility, and that although I had communicated with her in an attempt to maintain a relationship, that I understood that she was saying that her perception was that we do not have a relationship, and that I was sorry she felt that way.

I've heard nothing from her in the past 4 months. A week ago, she dropped a bag of fruit from one of her fruit trees on our front porch, and sent a text saying that it was for the kids. A few days ago, I spoke to my enDad, who asked, quite pointedly, if "we" are invited to child #3's birthday. I don't know if he was putting on an act or not, but he made out as if he didn't even know the exact date of child 3's birthday, and needed to ask me - it seemed more like feigned confusion or a test though, to try to get the correct date for when we are having a celebration, to get me to give away details, without officially inviting them, so that they could just turn up.

I told him child 3's birth date, and said that I had not made any plans. We are still under restrictions, no visitors permitted in the home, and it's very cold, so he accepted this without too much fuss, but suggested a facetime call. I'm fine with him doing a facetime call with child 3, I'm sure uPD Mum will believe she can join in with. Having her join in is very weird, given she hasn't had any contact with the kids for over 6 months, since I last took them to my parents house. My enDad has come to child 3's swimming classes, has spoken to child 1 on the phone, and mostly respects my boundary regarding not discussing Mum's issues with me.

My concern is that this will open the floodgates again. We have had a peaceful 4 months, but child 1 and 2 have their birthdays coming up next month, and the fruit on the doorstep tells me that she thinks that I should now know that she has made an effort to get over my awfulness. Which of course means that I am supposed to get over it and go back to the way things were "before" (ie. before boundaries).

I am dreading dealing with this again. She hates that enDad is speaking to me. She hates that I am "making her look bad" by not fawning over her and allowing her access to the kids whenever it suits her (she has never looked after them or spent quality time with them, she would just randomly drop in at our house and could then talk to her friends about what an amazing grandmother she is). She maintains a relationship with my abusive ex-husband and his family, and has destroyed the relationship between my sisters and I. Yet I still struggle to define or explain/justify what is so awful about her, as she is so covert in her behaviours. How do I get to a point where I am able to feel justified in not wanting to be around her? How to manage the situation with my Dad? Just keep insisting on no discussion of Mum? I think she is going to push it to a point that he is going to feel he needs to give me an ultimatum. But I know I can't control that. It's just scary and hurtful and sad.

[SunnyMeadow]

Yet I still struggle to define or explain/justify what is so awful about her, as she is so covert in her behaviours. How do I get to a point where I am able to feel justified in not wanting to be around her? How to manage the situation with my Dad? Just keep insisting on no discussion of Mum? I think she is going to push it to a point that he is going to feel he needs to give me an ultimatum. But I know I can't control that. It's just scary and hurtful and sad.

Hi wesayro,

Good for you in setting boundaries. If you didn't, she'd still be walking all over you. I have a covert mother too, we are LC. I got to a point feeling justified in not wanting to be around mine so much because of her continued awful treatment of others. One day it sort of slapped me in the head that it's her!! It's not everyone else she complains about. She is the common denominator in all her failed relationships. I've read emails and letters that she sends to people (she likes to share them with me) telling them how awful they've been to her. She 100% believes it.

I would tell your dad that you won't have a discussion with her and to stop asking. I'd tell him it's damaging the relationship between you two. If your dad is like mine, he will dump you just to keep the peace in his house with her. My dad has discarded everyone that she has. It's easier for him or he'd feel the wrath! This whole situation is scary, hurtful and sad. I'm sorry. 

[Leonor]

Hi Wesayro,

I really feel for you, this is such a similar situation with my own pd mom and now ILs - down to the doorstep fruit delivery  !

My m ended our relationship too, because if I'm going to insist that I was abused growing up, then there's nothing else left for us to talk about. My response was the same as yours: Sorry you feel that way. She is an exemplary grandiose narc, so that was about oh, 13 years ago now.

My mil and enfil are also major five star narcs but covert. The grandkids were entertaining little toys, like part time pets. Of course, we didn't really understand this until their delusions butted up against our reality. Then the mask dropped.

I wanted NC pretty damn quick but my dh still was in the FOG. Until his mom, who is not talking to him for whatever, ran into my 12 yo on the street. "I went up to say hi to her," he told us. "But I guess she's still depressed, because she didn't really seem like she wanted to talk to me."

I was ready to go over to mil's house and give her a good whack with the cane she never uses unless she thinks it'll buy her some sympathy. But dh finally dropped the rope, and her, too.

They're disordered. There's no "mean mom" for you and a "nice grandma" in there somewhere for your kids, and endad is engrandpa. I was it weren't so; I bet for decades that it was different. That they would realize. That we could manage it. It didn't happen.

So don't feel bad about drawing the line, even if your endad insists you're "killing" your mother. You're protecting your children. And that's most important, and that's what will finally end the cycle.

Stay strong, mama 🐻!

[wesorya]

Thanks so much for your words of support Leonor and Sunny.
Ongoing lockdowns helped out! I'm trying to accept that my Dad is making his choices, even though I know it is directed by Nmum.
EDad called a few days before my youngest childs birthday and asked in an uncharacteristic manner for him alone - but typical for when he is in co-operation with Nmum - if "we" are invited to DS5's birthday. I said I didn't know what was happening due to changes in lockdown. Tighter lockdown announced the next day.
He called and asked in "we" could come and drop a present off from the MIL.
He and Nmum came over (just to the front door, no visitors allowed in house) and Nmum presented the gift to DS5 as if it was from her. She and Edad didn't give him a gift or card, she hasn't seen or spoken to him, by her own choice, for about 6 months. Edad comes and watches his swimming lessons most weeks.
The next swimming lesson, they were both there, they said hello to him as we arrived, and then left, without staying to watch him swim. Next lesson, neither of them were there.
I want to ask my Dad why he didn't stay for the swimming lesson, but am not sure if it will just be interpreted as controlling, or actually is an attempt at control. What do you think?
I've also received an email from my sister asking if I would like to attend a family therapist with her. She has diagnosed BPD and is very enmeshed with parents, many distressing behaviours. I don't want to do it, but feel like I should ask some questions of her...any thoughts?

[Leonor]

Hey Wesayro!

You're doing great and I hope you and your family are enjoying the birthdays of your lovely little ones!

My thoughts, and they are just that, some thinking of me, that all of this irregular behavior by your endad and s, is engineered by m and designed to get you back into the fray. They're acting "as if" there might be some hope of relationship (going to a child's swim lessons, talking about therapy), but upon closer inspection, it makes no real sense: the weird disappearing acts, the therapy blah blah blah.

The more you engage, either by confronting or pleading or arguing or negotiating, the more power your mom has to mess stuff up for you and your babies. I mean, she's even using your children's birthdays to "get back at you" for setting very reasonable, health-centered boundaries.

Wish s the best in her therapy journey. Decline to engage in m convos. And no more swimming lesson visits, because it's a time for your lovelies to splash and play and frolick, not an opportunity for your mom and dad to stir up stoopid drama.

Geesh, these people!

[wesorya]

I have no idea how much NM has been involved in planting seeds in ED's head in regards to him reinstating contact with me, but it would definitely be naive of me to think that she was not involved.

About an hour after I posted  my last message about my sister's request, I received an email from a family dispute resolution centre, requesting that I contact them about a request for mediation that has been made by my sister regarding parenting/contact arrangements for my children. I replied to her email asking me about family therapy asking if she was referring to the mediation session that she has arranged, she has replied that no, she would like to know if I would attend the family therapy in addition.

What I want to ask is (but won't), why would I want to attend family therapy when you did not even ask if I wanted to discuss contact arrangements? Why would you have not discussed attending family therapy with me first in an attempt to reach a resolution there, before trying to coerce me into dispute resolution? Why would I believe that you have any sincere intentions regarding restoring your relationship with me, when your first action was to secretly arrange mediation? Why when I ask you to clarify if you are talking about the mediation you have organised without my knowledge, would  you simply respond that you want to attend both mediation and family therapy?
Why would you not comprehend how bizarre it is to arrange mediation without my consent or knowledge, and then after doing that, contact me to ask me to attend family therapy with you?

I am struggling with feeling made invisible once again, feeling frustrated just like the whole thing is so ridiculous, but that no one (outside of here) could understand why it is upsetting and belittling to be constantly treated as if my thoughts and feelings are completely irrelevant.

[Leonor]

Wait - your sister is trying to drag you into mediation to get access to YOUR children?



No mediation. No therapy. No bday invites. No half-assed swim lesson visits. No fruit drive-bys.

[wesorya]

Wait - your sister is trying to drag you into mediation to get access to YOUR children?

Yes.  AND wants me to take time out of my unfathomably busy life as a single parent of 3 kids, with sole custody and no family support, to sit down and talk to her with a family therapist.
I've left a message for the mediator to call me back to ask them why exactly this is being arranged and if there are any legal considerations. I very much doubt there could be though, given her very minimal involvement in the kids lives.

Interesting to note the timing of this too, just after NMum has been stirring up the pot again. She hasn't been able to get enough mileage out of eDad, so my sister has been sent into action.

[Leonor]

Right.

And they have absolutely no right to your children.

I don't mean "they don't deserve it."

I mean there is no legal justification for it.

So no response to any mediator. But maybe a legal consult to get these people into the cease and desist zone!

[Tribe16]

Wesayro,

You said, "Yet I still struggle to define or explain/justify what is so awful about her, as she is so covert in her behaviours. How do I get to a point where I am able to feel justified in not wanting to be around her? "

I found it helpful to write out each separate behavior incident. You are right, on each one off, I feel like the covert narc's behavior is petty, not monumental. But when you look at a timeline and the amount of crap, it's amazing. I was listening to a podcast that likened covert behavior to "death by a thousand beestings". You can survive one bee sting just fine - it's when they keep happening over and over again - collectively you think to yourself "Holy Crap" when you can see them all lined up next to each other.

My mother is ghosting me right now. It's hard. But when I am feeling lonely or sad about it, I know right where to find that journal page where I wrote each "deed" out. I remind myself, "See, you haven't had to listen to that now, have you?". Then I'm ok after that. BTW, my mother has never to my memory ever offered a sincere apology to me in my 60+ years. She has also offered peace offerings in the form of gifts as a means to sweep everything under the rug as if it never happened. As a little kid, I realized that after 3 days of silent treatment, Mother's way of letting me know it was ok to communicate again was, "Would you like a popsicle?" This is an example of the closest I ever got to any sort of apology.

[Sheppane]

" If I show sadness, she just uses my "weakness" against me, If I show anger/frustration, it is evidence that she is the victim, if I bolster her ego, I buy myself an unknown amount of time in her good books, before being turned on/ignored/dismissed/belittled/held up to ridiculous standards etc again."

All sounds like gaslighting/ abuse to me.  You are being punished with this latest mediation thing for having set healthy boundaries or at least that's what it sounds like to me.  They are also not " entitled " to see your children. No need to feel any shred of guilt for protecting your kids from this toxicity. You are doing great.

I would be VERY wary of the mediation. It probably won't be mediation but likely an assault on you and all the ways they say you have wronged them.
I would stay well away if it were me.
Sounds like a trap !

[Leonor]

Mediation is a way for people to sue each other for a division of jointly-held assets without paying hefty legal fees or acrimonious, lengthy arguing in a court of law.

It's not family therapy, or working it out  or getting an outside opinion, as if ANY opinion but your own mattered when it comes to your children.

Basically, your sister is suing you to get her and your parents access to your precious children. I mean, she can threaten that (you might hear some nonsense about "grandparents rights," which is a made up term used by abusive parents to harass their adult children - grandparents do not have visitation or custody rights of other people's children) but no mediator, who is a lawyer with a specialization, is going to take that on.

Neither, btw, will any competent therapist think it's a great idea to start therapy with adult siblings about one of the sibling's children.

So don't pay attention to this nonsense. It's noise.