Does this sound like PPD? Ticks many boxes

[gazmund]

Hi everyone, first post. I've been dealing with my elderly parents' behaviour and strong irrational beliefs for many decades, and I really want to learn how I can better deal with it myself - not to change them, I know that will not happen. I minimise contact, but every phone or personal interaction leads to pushing beliefs, accusing, including onto my young kids which really gets to me.

The opinions, beliefs and lifestyle are so ingrained and core to their lives that they will not change, which started me researching a bit that this may actually be some sort of disorder - and for me being a logical thinker I think this would help me understand what they are thinking, and also that I am dealing with a disorder and that they don't actually mean any harm; in fact probably the opposite that it's their way of showing concern, protection, and dealing with the unknown/not understood and fear.

So I suspected a form of paranoia, and from a bunch of reading, Paranoid Personality Disorder descriptions fit extremely well. These are some key points I've found across various psychology and mental health sites (and this site)... I'm wondering if I'm on the right track:

   - Being refugees and immigrants from a communist country
   - Restarting life and dealing with language and cultural barriers, discrimination and bullying in the workplace
   - Believing in many unfounded conspiracy theories
   - Function well despite their general mistrust of the world, governments, and health systems
   - Not able to discuss or acknowledge another point of view, easily insulted
   - Reduced to no social interaction, only with me (no siblings)
   - Eager believers - constantly looking for new answers to the unknown, as if they are on a special mission
   - They think they are in danger and look for signs and threats of that danger, not appreciating other interpretations or evidence
   - Blaming - identifying a person or people responsible for creating a problem, rather than identifying ways of dealing with the problem
   - Especially on the internet, Confirmation Bias - pay more attention to things which reinforce your beliefs than to things which contradict them.
   - Strong obsession with things being "poisonous" with no proof - tap water, suncream, toothpaste, wifi, television screens, certain foods like eggs, vaccines, hospitals, any form of modern medicine, antibiotics
   - Strong obsession with things being "medicine" with contrary proof - strong alkaline foods, colloidal silver water, magnets
   - I think they believe I am part of a conspiracy which I why I don't believe the same as them - because I have worked for the government, my partner works in a hospital, we are poisoned
   - Taking offense, disbelief, and offering constant suggestions and opinions to me, even after calmly explaining I know these things are important to them, but I don't share the same view

The above goes to the extent that one of my parents is disabled for 10 years and cannot walk - they refuse to seek/accept any help - financial help, home help like cleaning, pain relief, physio, treatment, mobility like wheelchairs and electric beds.
   
So I started viewing our interactions as me dealing with someone with this disorder, and I immediately felt better, and not as attacked. Wondering if I am on the right track and if others have experienced something along these lines...

[SunnyMeadow]

Hi gazmund 

My uNPD mother has many of these same beliefs. I've never thought about her having PPD. I would put big money on my mother being a covert narcissist but am now going to do some reading on PPD. Interesting!

My mother falls right into conspiracy theories, distrust of everything, easily insulted, feels slighted constantly, very little social interaction with others and more. The way I deal with this is to listen to her for a while and then change the subject. I think up a few topics before I have to listen to her and whip them out as soon as I can.

Look up Medium Chill and Gray Rock techniques of communication. It's been very helpful for me. Another one is Observe don't Absorb. Imagine you sitting with a clipboard while listening to them go on and on. You are observing but not absorbing any of their nonsense. You know before you get there that they are going to say nonsense but you don't have to say anything in reply. I'd say you're doing well dealing with them as having a disorder. I do the same. They can't change so we have to change how we interact with them.

My visits with my very elderly mother consist of me listening, shaking my head YES because she's always right, changing the subject, talking about the weather or a neighbor's new puppy which turns into how well my mother trained all of our dogs, me changing the topic into something I saw on the drive on the way to her house. Then she brings up her excellent driving skills, me dragging the topic back to a new recipe I tried that she might like, to her quivering chin that NO ONE makes her any recipes ..... visits are painful but I keep it short, change the subject often and try to get out in record time.

The thing is if they were nicer, visits would be longer. Being talked at during a visit isn't fun. It's too bad they can't see it.

[Cat of the Canals]

Much of what you describe sounds like a PD, which one can be tricky to "diagnose" because there's often overlap between the various types. For example, there is a subtype of Borderline PD called the "hermit" which is essentially BPD crossed with PPD. The oft-repeated advice on this board is that the diagnosis or lack there of doesn't really matter. The behavior and how it effects you does.

You're definitely on the right track with your acceptance that they won't/can't change (and that trying to get the to change isn't your responsibility) and not taking their behavior and words as a personal attack on you.

As for the phone calls and visits, I'd highly recommend checking out the Toolbox, especially the Medium Chill guide: https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/medium-chill

With my own PDmom, I have taken to limiting the time of our phone calls to once a month, 20-25 minutes. I actually set a timer and have an excuse lined up to end the call such as, I need to start cooking dinner or I have to take the dog out or I have to leave to run an errand. If she brings up a subject I'm not interesting in discussing, I let it pass with a, "Hm." or I say nothing at all. If she continues, I change the subject. If she really pushes it, the call/visit is over (haven't gotten to this point, so far). With some PDs, it's probably more necessary to set a strict boundary. "I understand your concern, but I'm not going to discuss this further."  If and when they ramp up the behavior (which is often what happens in response to boundaries of any kind), you end the call or leave. "You sound very upset, so I think we'd better talk another time."

[gazmund]

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply 

One of the most frustrating things I've found is that I confuse and second guess how I should have reacted, or fantasize about how I should in the future. Should I be defensive? Corrective? Logical? Agree? Ignore? Aggressive?

Observe don't Absorb

is a great analogy - this is what I would like to get to; ok to interact with them, but change how I view the situation so I don't absorb and dwell on every word. Similar to what you mention even the anticipation of the behaviour I find hard to deal with - I guess need to accept it's going to happen and approach it differently to before.

The oft-repeated advice on this board is that the diagnosis or lack there of doesn't really matter. The behavior and how it effects you does.

100% right - the diagnosis or lack doesn't matter at all, if there is information which helps me communicate and deal with it is the best outcome. Which is why I looked for a forum like this. I've recently tried what you mention saying "I don't want to discuss this further" which lead to them being insulted and offended, but it's an interesting twist to acknowledge "I know this is important to you" or "I know you are trying to look out for us"... I'll try this.

Thx for the pointers to Medium Chill  The overview sounds perfect, I love "disengaging from their drama". I don't think the examples will work and can cause confrontation, but the description has given me very good ideas for the approach.

[Cat of the Canals]

One of the most frustrating things I've found is that I confuse and second guess how I should have reacted, or fantasize about how I should in the future. Should I be defensive? Corrective? Logical? Agree? Ignore? Aggressive?

Thx for the pointers to Medium Chill  The overview sounds perfect, I love "disengaging from their drama". I don't think the examples will work and can cause confrontation, but the description has given me very good ideas for the approach.

In some ways, I think there are really only three ways to handle most situations with PDs (at least in a practical, healthy manner).
1. Ignore and don't react, which is really Grey Rock - I think this is best in scenarios where you simply can't get away from the PD and have decided the best course of action is to white-knuckle through it. For example, if you're at a family wedding and an outburst from the PD would be embarrassing/disruptive or if the PD is driving a car and you're literally worried for your safety.

2. Setting firm boundaries - In normal scenarios, I think the goal is to state/reinforce your values without being defensive or aggressive. Again, I usually try to come up with a Medium Chill way to set the boundary. As I said before, setting boundaries with PDs usually doesn't go over well, no matter how much you try to concoct a way of saying it without "setting them off." That's not really your problem. You're an adult. You are allowed to say "no" or "I don't want to discuss this." If they react poorly, that's often the signal to end the conversation and leave. Also, one of my favorite MC techniques is simply not responding at all.

Here's an example with my own PDmil:

PDmil: So do you think you'll come to my house for Thanksgiving and Christmas?
Me: No, we actually already have plans.
PDmil: Are you going to your parents' house?
Me: No, we're staying home.
PDmil: Oh. I just thought you'd want to come to my house...
Me: [looooooong silence, because I've already said no, which requires no explanation, and her pushing the issue is actually kind of rude.] So have you watched any good TV lately?