Ex using youngest son to violate older son's NC request

[gfuertes]

My Antisocial PD/NPD ex and I have a 14-y-o son together.  I just recently began formal divorce proceedings, but we've lived separately for 4 yrs.  The 1st 2, Ex was in prison. The most recent 2, we've been sharing parenting time.

Ex has a son in his early 20's who lived with us during the marriage, and continued living with me after Ex went to prison, until he got an apartment with friends.  When Ex returned from prison, "S23" moved in and worked with him.  "S14" complained of Ex yelling at and insulting both him and his brother, and S23 moved out after only a few months.

Last fall, Ex began comparing notes and told me no one in the family had heard from S23 in a couple months, so he wanted S23's documents (birth certificate and Soc Sec card, which S23 had left with me,) in order to file a missing person report.  I immediately texted S23, who immediately responded.  He said Ex was lying - that S23 had stopped by his house just a couple weeks before, but Ex had been so rude to him that S23 had decided he wanted to go NC for a while.  I shared with Ex only that I had communicated with S23, that he was fine, and that the lack of contact was intentional, so he should not file a MP report.  S23 had a similar exchange with his even-older brother.

Between then and Christmas, Ex constructed what I look back on as a rather stunning fake drama, triangulating between a large number of people, including police, telling lies and partial truths, and using oversized emotional reactions to suck others into believing that things had bigger, more tragic meaning than they did.  (For example, S23's car was "found" parked at an unfamiliar apartment complex for several days.  Later I learned S23's GF lives there.  Their friends believed the two of them had taken a trip out of town in *her* car.  But Ex had a sobbing breakdown with S23's bio mom about something S23 had left in his car.  Ex claimed to know without a doubt that S23 would never have voluntarily left that in his car, so S23 must have been murdered or kidnapped, and his car abandoned.)

S23 got wind of the Missing posters, and his friends being pestered about his whereabouts.  He posted a public statement that he was fine and considered this harassment.  He even called a relative to say the same, so there was no doubt it was him speaking.  Despite this, Ex - and only Ex - maintained the storyline that S23 was dead or kidnapped; that everything S23 had written, posted, or said to the contrary was actually done by his murderer or kidnapper; and that no one but Ex cared enough to keep trying to find S23.  And S14 remained Ex's only captive audience.

Eventually S14 came home and informed me his dad had "finally found" S23.  This meant Ex got a friend of S23's to violate S23's wishes and tell Ex where S23 works.  Ex had gone there, and made eye contact with S23, who hadn't spoken to him.

I felt compelled to explain to S14 that while Ex must feel very upset, when someone has clearly said they want no contact, tracking them down and going to the place they work while they're working - and can't get away from you - is not being more loving and concerned about them than everyone else.  It's stalking.  If, for example, a woman breaks up with a man and says she doesn't want to see him, he could get in trouble for doing this, even if he might say it was because he loved her so much, or was worried about what was going on with her while she wasn't talking to him.  Adults have a right to be left alone.

S14 understandably expressed sadness that S23 wasn't talking to us, either.  I assured him it wasn't because S23 doesn't care or think about S14.  I believe S23 thinks he can't maintain the boundaries he wants to, with his parents, if he stays in contact with other family members.  I said *I* felt sad about not seeing/hearing from S23 lately, but I'm respecting his boundaries until he feels ready to change them.

This weekend, apparently Ex took S14 out to eat at the restaurant S23 manages.  S14 said they saw S23, but that S23 did not talk to them.

I feel so angry about this.  Ex has made no effort whatsoever to acknowledge he gave S23 reasons to cut off contact.  Instead, he tried to discredit S23 with anyone who would listen - claiming (with no proof) that S23 is on drugs, and not paying his bills - so others would believe it was urgent to find and "help" S23.  And Ex sneakily managed to get others to do the dirty work.  HE didn't bug S23's friends (at least initially) or post Missing flyers.  Ex got others worked up, who did that.  So it seemed less clear to S23 who was behind what S23 perceived as harassment.

And now Ex is parading S23's little brother in front of him, taunting, "If you refuse to come speak to me while I'm stalking you at work, your little brother will see that you're also not speaking to him.  He's with me.  He's on my side."  And Ex is also modeling for S14 that he'd better never try to set boundaries with Ex, or tell him no - because obviously Ex will never respect that, or allow it.

[Poison Ivy]

I recall you writing about your ex's behavior last year. It is very disturbing, and I can understand why you're distressed. Is the 14 year old in therapy? If not, could he be? This seems like a situation in which you and 14 year old would benefit from professional counseling. I think you're saying all the right things to him, but sometimes talking about things with a professional is even more effective.

[BefuddledClarity]

Hi gfuertes,

That's sounds like a really frustrating situation for everyone involved [you, S14, and S23].

In regards to S23, if you do get into contact with him again, I recommend that you suggest he get an order of protection or restraining order against his PDfather.
So, anytime that his PDfather comes into his work place, he can call the cops and have him arrested for violating the restraining order/order of protection.

As for S14, as Poison Ivy mentioned, I'd recommend your son see a therapist, so he knows his PDfather's behaviour is NOT okay. Also, have a 3rd party might help to provide an "unbiased" opinion. He might think that your opinion is biased[even though it's not...it's factual based on your PDex's behaviour...] since his PDfather is your ex...But having an outsider say "No, that behaviour is actually toxic" might make him recognize it better.

Furthermore, I think you're doing a good job of explaining to your son about the toxic behaviour. He might not get it now, but he will later. It's good that your talking to him and explaining that it is not okay. Please continue reassuring S14 that S23 still cares about him. It might take him some time, but I think you're doing a wonderful job as a parent, looking out for all of your sons and making sure they are okay.

As for you, maybe limit contact with PDex as well. He seems to be stressing you out as well. If you're not able to, I would grey rock him. [Which sounds like you did when ex tried to file a missing a person report, you let him know that sound is fine, but also didn't provide too much info, which is good!]

Lastly...I'm not sure if it's viable right now, but maybe have a sit-down with S14, S23, and yourself to talk about things going on. Or even go out on a little family vacay to destress.

**I would limit contact with your PDex if you're able to, I know it's hard when it comes to coparenting. I'm in a weird situation where I don't have ANY communication with PDex/son's dad at all...not yet...But that is due to my son being put into emporary custody by CPS with PDex's PDsis, so we don't have to talk to each other at all. However, I plan on putting an order of protection and restricting contact to ONLY email/text. If he calls, I'm going to record the call. If I see him in person, I'll videotape him. I'm not taking chances.  I'm getting close to getting custody back again, but I want FULL custody, so he doesn't go back into a violent/alcoholic environment. His grandpa is also a violent alcoholic wife beater, and has tried fighting my son's father...son's father currently lives with his PDgrandpa...


Anyhow, it sounds you're doing a good job!
I'm sorry you're going through all of this.
Keep strong mama, your kids really appreciate everything you do for them! ♡
Take some "me time" for you too, if you haven't!