Broaching sensitive subjects with emotionally unavailable elders

[bee well]

Hello,

I am considering opening up a conversation about a sensitive subject with a difficult, unemotionally available elder.
This conversation could help me to bring closure on some very important issues I have been dealing with in my healing journey.

The subject does not involve the elder directly. It is about someone who has had a very important role in both of our lives, though, so it is also very personal for the one I would be asking.

I thought about asking..."Do you feel comfortable talking a little about...x," and going from there.

But there is one other thing...

I do not know what this elder's health is like at the moment, and the elder is not close to me so it's hard for me to assess the situation indirectly. (There's no one, other than the person in question, that I can ask without it getting back to the elder.)

The other alternative would be first to ask "how is your health these days?" And then decide whether to proceed with the next question. (I don't want the conversation to have a negative effect on the person's health, even indirectly. There are no serious issues I know of, but this elder is at a point where that is a distinct possibility.)

What complicates it for me is that I think asking about health is a private issue, especially if someone has not been sharing details about it, it just seems a question that shouldn't be asked, unless we see a person struggling.

I do not know what this elder's health is like at the moment, and is not close to me so it's hard for me to assess the situation indirectly. (There's no one, other than the person in question, that I can ask without it getting back to them.)

I find myself asking, is there ever even an age where it's too risky to open up important, or emotionally charged conversations?

Part of me just wants to go ahead and ask "Are you comfortable talking about...x?"

(After the holidays of course, I'm not ready to start the conversation now, and I doubt the other person would be either. It's a delicate time for both us us due to history.)

It might be relevant to add that the elder has a pattern of stonewalling.

Is there anyone reading this who might want to share some thoughts about this, or experience in a similar situation?

[Call Me Cordelia]

I think it would be very fair to ask would you be comfortable talking about x. He or she can then decide if that’s something they would be ok with. It might be natural for them to ask why you want to discuss that, though. And put a bit of space between your asking and the actual discussion.

If you are disappointed, and this elderly person were to refuse to discuss your issue, or stonewall you indefinitely, or heck, die before you can get that closure, it doesn’t have to frustrate your healing. Sure it would be nice to have, but if it were that simple… it sort of begs the question of whether you would need this and if you would be feeling so apprehensive to even ask if you could broach the subject.

Only you can decide if asking is worth the risk to you. But if you do, I’m thinking you’ll want to be nice to yourself. It’s brave and somewhat fearsome to “go there” with someone even indirectly involved with what hurt you so deeply in the past that is still affecting you today.

[bee well]

Hi Call me Cordelia,

Thank you for your response.  I really appreciate it.

If I were to ask "Would you be comfortable talking about...X," I might get a stonewall which would then be interpreted by me as no, the person does not want to talk about it. In that case I would not continue the discussion.  If I get a yes, then things get more complicated.

The part where you wrote "Sure it would be nice to have, but if it were that simple... it sort of begs the question of whether you would need this and if you would be feeling so apprehensive to even ask if you could broach the subject" is very thought provoking.

That's something I plan to reflect on some more. The "whether I really need it" is at the core of things here.

I've already done some of the mapping out of pros and cons and potential after shock, but I think it might help to put the idea down for a while and then pick it up again if and when I feel it's a good time to do so. This to avoid rumination (!) and hopefully gain more clarity.

I'm not in danger and there is no need to force an issue that has existed for years.

Thank you again.

[Cat of the Canals]

I agree with Cordelia. Asking about their health is too indirect and leaves you trying to suss out whether "now is a good time." And if they're NOT in good health, then you're left wondering if/when you might broach the subject again.

I think you're better off allowing them to make the decision whether they want to have the discussion at all.

[moglow]

The "emotionally unavailable" part would give me pause, to be honest. If I already sense that's where they are I doubt I'd be willing to broach the basic subject at hand. All their security systems could well shut down and they might resort to hard defensiveness/blaming you for daring to bring it up. I'd have more of a tendency to open a screen door first with a few random, unobtrusive visits or conversations before bringing up anything more in depth. Get my feelers out there first, if you get me, see if it feels safe to continue into more. They might surprise you.

[Leonor]

Hello Bee,

You describe this person as difficult, emotionally unavailable, and older. This tells you all you need to know about the outcome of an emotionally fraught conversation: the person will react by a) distancing themselves emotionally and b) being uncooperative.

If the information you're looking for depends on this person telling you (a story, an acknowledgement, an explanation), then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. S/he cannot give you what s/he does not have: emotional intelligence.

If you are hoping that, even inadvertently, this person gives you information to confirm something you already suspect, or fill out a missing detail, you might get what you want, but you will torment yourself later with your own doubt: what if s/he is lying, or being manipulative, or forgetful, or remembering wrong- what if I put the idea into his/her head?

Bee, all of this comes from your own doubt. No one knows your story better than you. No one is more of an authority on your life than you. You are all you need to know about you.

However, if your healing comes from standing in the presence of a difficult, indifferent older family member, and speaking your truth, and feeling your own power in the face of whatever this person throws at you, then that is healing, that is empowering.

Instead of practicing how to ask this person a question, why not practice how you will respond, regardless of how they respond?

[bee well]

Good day All!

Thank you so much for reading and for your replies, Leonor, Cat of the Canals, Moglow, and again, to Call me Cordelia.

Leonor:
Just as I was about to post again, your response arrived. :=) :=) What you wrote is very important for me to remember, and I will put all of it in my mental working space/tool box.  Here is one of the things you wrote that stood out:  " Bee, all of this comes from your own doubt. No one knows your story better than you. No one is more of an authority on your life than you. You are all you need to know about you."

This is true, my own doubt has been one of my worst enemies, and I am getting so much better now that I recognize that what I know and observe is valid, in spite of what I have been told.  I am clear minded, and able to assess things with the information I have, and not have to ALWAYS feel like "Oh, maybe you are over reacting, they didn't really mean it, they really love you, they just don't know how to show it--that whole enabling script. I know what I know and I don't need to be told what and how to think.  Claiming my reality is what gave me the strength to break away from one uN family system. The other side is a walk in the park compared to what I broke away from, but still, healthy relational patterns, as you all have guessed, are not the "norm" there either. th history is what it is and I have no reason to think I will see change there. Ugh!

Cat of the Canals:
Yes, there may never be a good time. As Leonor said, it would be empowering to face this elder, but not sure if it will happen.  I would need to be coming from a place of deep strength.

I'm always looking for the "right time." I've realized that in my people pleasing I have done a lot of "looking for the right time" for other's sake. It's now time for me to "think about my right time."

I've definitely decided now, this moment, is not a good time.

If I had known what I knew now, and had been out of shrinking mode, I would have broached the subject years ago. Coulda, shoulda woulda, you know, but that doesn't get us very far now, does it?

Moglow:
If they haven't already brought up this extremely important discussion in past years (and also at one specific time, when many "emotionally available" people would have felt humanly prompted to do so) then the chances are zero to almost none there will be an opening. And I realize I have no power to change that.

As an example of what I would be dealing with: the elder once did not speak to me for years.  I had asked if something was wrong or if I had upset the person--for what I don't know--- and if so, could we clear things up?   I was told, the elder "just did not feel like communicating".

The "old me" let it pick up with no resolution as soon as the elder, years later, decided to start back with communication, I started fawning again and here I am, still dealing with the resulting double bind confusion. Not fawning anymore, thankfully, although at times I think I still give undue reverence.

But back to what you said, It's a good idea to put out feelers. (It's true, we never know what might happen) If at some time down the line it seems feasible, I might take their cue, or "ask if they are comfortable talking about x," without me having the idea in mind that it's something "that has to be done."

What I had been wanting to/had been thinking about doing is find out a piece of a puzzle, or a piece of information, that "could"  bring me some closure. After Call me Cordelia's response I thought a lot about "would I really need it" and what the effect could be.

Also what does closure really mean? I think it's like forgiveness, different for all of us, and often we are just expected to "get closure" prematurely and "get on with our lives" without fully going into the why and what really happened. Under that pressure it's easy to feel defective when we don't "get on with it" and so we archive the discussion about feelings, and the past.

Then a scab forms over a festering wound, so to speak.

When we start healing and certain people stonewall and are not emotionally available we can only do our best, and then eventually it comes time to radically accept the past, and that these people are not, were not, and will not be "present" for us. Perhaps that's what "closure" means for many of us.

I have already internalized the fact that, other than embracing radical acceptance, I won't have ever closure with one side of my family, now in NC with them. The other side with whom I am in LC/greyrocking are all emotionally distant and the issue is in an albeit prolonged, stage of resolution (in my mind, anyway).

Now in the process of accepting the realization that in order to protect my health I need to leave this alone for a while, maybe for ever. The fact is, knowing myself as I do, if the discussion takes place it will bring up a strong (stress) reaction inside me whatever the outcome is. I mean, what good is "closure" if I am falling apart at the seams?

I also realize I have been in the FOG on this one for a long time and I need to work on an internal resolution, and not worry about what they would think of me if I don't go seeking information about something that they, and society, might think I should be extremely interested in resolving.

There's this common idea that a good "child" of any age would do every thing in the power to know about the end times of absentee family members. (I'm obviously an adult now, though "child" seems to be the role I have been assigned.) It's been suggested implicitly that I have lack of interest in family, but "what it is" is that in the past I have been too afraid to ask about important matters. Now, their age is a consideration.

Around that there is a revisionist history once people in the family system are no longer with us, Strangely there is no mention of the damage that these people have caused, and how in spite of that, they are also casualties of the family system. There's zero accountability. It's so messed up. (And I accept that too. it's not my job or intention to fix or  change anyone or to shatter their fantasy.)

Call me Cordelia, what you said about healing is really important. Our healing journey can go on no matter what happens, no matter what life brings our way, once we decide to give ourselves the space to heal. Life will always happen but you can't un-ring the bell when you know what you know, and have decided once and for all to go a different way. I'm not going back.

I'm grateful for this forum, that we can express ourselves here and all of the thoughtful, respectful responses. It's such a great help. Thanks from the heart.

[daughter]

My BNM estranged us from her only sibling and sibling's own family over my grandparents' estate. (BNM acted badly.). Estrangement, and resulting absolute shunning aggressively enforced by BNM, meaning policed  "no contact" policy applied to my contacts too.  About 5 years into strict estrangement, my uncle called about my aunt's quickly declining health, and furtive contact resumed. My uncle had no idea I was NC with my parents, and upon hearing so, proceeded to disclose a great deal of FOO history I hadn't known. My parents had SG'ed this couple for decades, until split.  Though uncle was a strong personality himself, he quite accurately understood my parents' dynamics.  I came from a "Big Show" family, where outward appearance was super-important, where mental illness was shameful, where terrible behavior was tolerated within privacy of immediate family.  I'm glad my uncle disclosed his much older knowledge of NBM, my SG aunt, my enDad, and my NBM's own family. My aunt and uncle have now both died. I would encourage you to reach out to your relative. Very old people realize that their remaining time is very limited, and often far more willing to disclose and discuss  "family matters" even if formerly more reserved.

[bee well]

I've just seen this...You wrote: "Very old people realize that their remaining time is very limited, and often far more willing to disclose and discuss  "family matters" even if formerly more reserved." Thanks for your input, daughter. I appreciate it.  I hadn't thought of it that way...