Awareness of PD people

[GentleSoul]

Hello all

(Back story uNPD/alcoholic parents.  uNPD/alcoholic spouse who died nearly a year ago.  All covert narcs, imo)

I am pleased to notice that now when I encounter a PD person my gut instinct responds in what I believe is a healthy way.

A few days ago I was chatting to an elderly man.  On the surface all pleasant.  Then I noticed an unease in my tummy, I then realised the man (in my opinion) had covert narc traits, was playing the poor me victim role. Trying to evoke sympathy in me which would then be used to manipulate me.   

I saw it, or rather I felt it, and took self care action and removed myself.

What prompted me to post about this today was seeing a talk on You Tube by Sam Vakin (a self declared narc) and he mentioned that when people encounter narcs, Nature makes their body react and be repelled by them.  This is exactly what I experienced. 

I feel my natural response had been overridden by childhood conditioning.  Hopefully it is now working as it should.

[palmtreeparadise]

That is very very interesting! I will have to check out the youtube video. I think at times even just feeling uncomfortable, or "off" like that weird uneasy feeling in your stomach is a huge sign. Trust your gut and trust your instincts! I know some family members that definitely play victim - or they get you comfortable enough and listen to you vent.. then use it against you. Good on you for learning and trusting your natural instincts.

[Starboard Song]

It is so important that we learn to spot the patterns and learn to have healthy reactions.

This is also true: there are people who've never been scarred by a PD, so they don't recognize any of these patterns in the people around them, and yet they also never fall prey to such people because they are confident and maintain healthy boundaries.

The caution is that we must try not to over-diagnose PD around us, and at our best we find a way to not be manipulated. This allows us to maintain many healthy relationships, and even with some difficult people, rather than filter out all the difficult people in our world.

The world is in regrettable over-supply of difficult people.  :-)

You keep being strong!

[GentleSoul]

That is very very interesting! I will have to check out the youtube video. I think at times even just feeling uncomfortable, or "off" like that weird uneasy feeling in your stomach is a huge sign. Trust your gut and trust your instincts! I know some family members that definitely play victim - or they get you comfortable enough and listen to you vent.. then use it against you. Good on you for learning and trusting your natural instincts.

Many thanks for your reply, Palm Tree Paradise.  It is all such a learning journey for me.

I now know when I met late covert narc  alcoholic husband, what I thought were butterflies inn my tummy of attraction to him was actually anxiety.  My body telling me to run away fast! 

Our bodies do know, that is for sure.  My body recognised the same behaviours in him as my covert narc alcoholic parents. 

The biggest trait that was them all playing the victim.  I can see now that was the magnet to me.  I have deep ingrained conditioning that I am meant to help them!   With education now, I don't feel this at all.   In fact, I see an adult playing the victim, it feels pathetic and cringe making to me.  As Nature intended!

[GentleSoul]

It is so important that we learn to spot the patterns and learn to have healthy reactions.

This is also true: there are people who've never been scarred by a PD, so they don't recognize any of these patterns in the people around them, and yet they also never fall prey to such people because they are confident and maintain healthy boundaries.

The caution is that we must try not to over-diagnose PD around us, and at our best we find a way to not be manipulated. This allows us to maintain many healthy relationships, and even with some difficult people, rather than filter out all the difficult people in our world.

The world is in regrettable over-supply of difficult people.  :-)

You keep being strong!

Many thanks for your reply, Starboard Song.   Interesting to hear your view point, thanks. I politely disagree with part of it.  I will not be having any other PD person or difficult person in my life.  There is no need, there are millions of healthy people I can interact with. 

My life is such that I can choose who I spend time with.   I am not tied by any obligation to anyone.  I can choose only healthy, well balanced people to spend my life with.

I have spend far too long catering to toxic people.  That is over. 

[notrightinthehead]

Interesting that you wrote "....what I thought were butterflies inn my tummy of attraction to him was actually anxiety. " Looking back I had a similar experience. When I met my NPDh my legs almost gave and I had to hold on to something to steady myself. A massive reaction from my body. Which I mistook for attraction.
I am with you on letting only balanced people into my life from now on. However, I still have a few childhood friends whom I keep in my life even though they are difficult. The contact is reduced to a phone call every few months though. That works for me. And I am very sensitive to my caretaking needs. Whenever I feel the need to jump in and help, I watch myself very carefully. Most of the time others are well capable to solve their own problems and all they need is a smpathetic ear and some encouragement.

[GentleSoul]

Interesting that you wrote "....what I thought were butterflies inn my tummy of attraction to him was actually anxiety. " Looking back I had a similar experience. When I met my NPDh my legs almost gave and I had to hold on to something to steady myself. A massive reaction from my body. Which I mistook for attraction.
I am with you on letting only balanced people into my life from now on. However, I still have a few childhood friends whom I keep in my life even though they are difficult. The contact is reduced to a phone call every few months though. That works for me. And I am very sensitive to my caretaking needs. Whenever I feel the need to jump in and help, I watch myself very carefully. Most of the time others are well capable to solve their own problems and all they need is a smpathetic ear and some encouragement.

Many thanks for your reply. Not Right in the Head.  Interesting that you had a similar reaction.   

I had a few "difficult" people still in my life but what I found is that as I changed while working my recovery, without me even thinking about I gradually stopped enabling and giving them what they needed. 

Sure, I would listen and empathise but not enable.  Big difference in that.   These people just gradually faded out of my life.   

I see now that I was no longer feeding them with what they wanted, so they just move on.  No big deal or fuss or any unpleasant words.  They just move on to someone else who does provide what what they want. So that took care of itself. 

Of course now, the healed me doesn't attract PD's anyway because again, the personality I am now does not offer them with what they would be looking. 

So I know we can't change other people but by changing ourselves, our whole world changes.  We attract different things. 

Exciting journey.

[Pepin]

I feel my natural response had been overridden by childhood conditioning.  Hopefully it is now working as it should.

This is exactly how I felt.  I had been raised in an environment where I was compared to others around me and that I was inferior to others but as a family, others were inferior to us.  Terribly confusing.  Essentially it came down to me just feeling like I was garbage to everyone and that anything was better. *sigh*. Much of my life has been consumed by anxiety and knots in my stomach -- thinking that that was normal and that I just didn't know how to respond.  I had been raised NOT to respond to what my gut was telling me.  Now I know.  Similar to you but I used to run into this elderly lady from time to time and yeah I'd let her engage in some conversation with me....but then I realized that she had a problem: she was a PD.  Now I am vigilant and if I see her in the distance, I go a different way because I'm not interested in listening to her unload anymore.  I just don't want people like that in my life anymore.

And now that DPD CN MIL has passed, I technically have no one else in my life to tip toe around.  I can speak my mind and set boundaries left and right with anyone I choose.  No one gets a pass anymore if I sense that they are behaving badly.  DPD CN MIL was the last person I have had to put up with for the sake of DH.  Since she is finally out of the picture, other family members and their PD behavior are meaningless to me.  Now it is time to coax DH Out of the FOG by my own example. 

[GentleSoul]

I feel my natural response had been overridden by childhood conditioning.  Hopefully it is now working as it should.

This is exactly how I felt.  I had been raised in an environment where I was compared to others around me and that I was inferior to others but as a family, others were inferior to us.  Terribly confusing.  Essentially it came down to me just feeling like I was garbage to everyone and that anything was better. *sigh*. Much of my life has been consumed by anxiety and knots in my stomach -- thinking that that was normal and that I just didn't know how to respond.  I had been raised NOT to respond to what my gut was telling me.  Now I know.  Similar to you but I used to run into this elderly lady from time to time and yeah I'd let her engage in some conversation with me....but then I realized that she had a problem: she was a PD.  Now I am vigilant and if I see her in the distance, I go a different way because I'm not interested in listening to her unload anymore.  I just don't want people like that in my life anymore.

And now that DPD CN MIL has passed, I technically have no one else in my life to tip toe around.  I can speak my mind and set boundaries left and right with anyone I choose.  No one gets a pass anymore if I sense that they are behaving badly.  DPD CN MIL was the last person I have had to put up with for the sake of DH.  Since she is finally out of the picture, other family members and their PD behavior are meaningless to me.  Now it is time to coax DH Out of the FOG by my own example.

Thank you, Pepin.

So much in your sharing that I relate to.    My role growing as eldest child growing up in chaotic, PD, violent, screaming alcoholic household was to be the soother.  The parent in a childs body who managed everyone's emotions and smoothed things over.

Exhausting and utterly soul destroying.

We are sharing about gut instincts, also in my childhood I was often surrounded by dangerous, predator men.  Men who my parents didn't view as dangerous. They were just "good old Fred".  No, they weren't they were drunk, out of control sexual predators.  My gut instincts would SCREAM at me to move away from these drunks.  Yet "family values" meant me having to be around them and they groping hands.

No wonder our poor insides get all messed up.

Like you Pepin, I have no close family PD's or spouse now.  Just any that happen to pass by my life which I can quite easily spot and step away from.

Interesting to me that you mention the elderly lady you dodge!  I smiled at this.  Me too!  I love myself enough now not to stand and listen to the negative moaning and bitterness as it seeps all the goodness out of my body!    I see t his lady in the distance and dance side step out of her way! 

I hope you are able to help your DH Out of the FOG by your example.

Living as an example is a very self empowering, I feel.