I'm Feeling Lost and Confused

makingachange · February 21, 2022, 12:25:24 PM

Hi Everyone,

I have been no contact with my parents now for about 9 months to a year. I had went gray rock because I couldn't stand to continue on with how things had been...The last straw was when my mother went off into a rage. I basically decided to put up a boundary with her, she didn't like it, went off on me...and then acted like something was wrong with me? I warned her and told her that if she kept saying mean things to me (through text), that I would have to go no contact. She only responded with..."Well, this doesn't sound anything like my daughter." She only continued to threaten and guilt me for months...until I just quit responding and went no contact.

My mother has apologized through text, saying things like..."Sorry for what I did that offended you." "Sorry for being mean to you. I love you and I had so many stressful things going on in my life." "I have apologized over and over...even people in jail get another chance."

Mostly every time she has said she is sorry, she follows it right up with another thing that makes me feel like she is not being sincere...I feel like something is off with this...

Anyways, the flying monkey my aunt sent me a text around Christmas about how I need to make things right with my parents before it is too late...

My mother's brother passed away a few weeks ago...she texted my husband (not me)...and then when he didn't respond ...she texted my sister in law that she doesn't even really know to ask if I had gotten her text about her brother...So, my sister in law has to text my husband ...absolutely ridiculous to text everyone else expect the person you want to get a message to...especially when she already sends texts to me?

My mother called with a (fake sounding cry) saying she wants to talk to me the other day....and left a text saying that "Maybe one day she will be forgiven and how she prays that will happen.

I know that my relationship with my parents for the last several years and even into childhood have been unhealthy...but, I feel really bothered by this. Do I really think going back and having contact with them would help? No. I feel that even if I went back and even texted them/that be our relationship (no in person contact as I feel very uncomfortable around them)...it wouldn't be enough or right for them. I am afraid of setting boundaries as when I did in the past, it blew up in my face. I get cold sweats/heart racing/panic when I get a text from them...

Will this guilt ever pass? Will I ever feel at peace about this...any thoughts about this or guidance from anyone else that feels this way, I'd love to hear what you have to say! =) I feel torn ...if I go back, I am terrified that my boundaries will be run over and not listened to...or that they will blow up to my boundaries....but, I am concerned as well if I don't go back if I'll feel guilty the rest of my life and feel heavy regret.

~MakingAChange

Starboard Song · February 21, 2022, 03:14:48 PM

Quote from: makingachange on February 21, 2022, 12:25:24 PM
Will this guilt ever pass? Will I ever feel at peace about this...any thoughts about this or guidance from anyone else that feels this way, I'd love to hear what you have to say! =) I feel torn ...if I go back, I am terrified that my boundaries will be run over and not listened to...or that they will blow up to my boundaries....but, I am concerned as well if I don't go back if I'll feel guilty the rest of my life and feel heavy regret.

We had a story like yours. Outrageous mean things said, MIL called for an end to our relationship, and this time we decided not to normalize or accept the treatment. We set a couple of boundaries, those were ignored viciously, so we pulled the mic. Various things happened in the first couple years that drove some interactions, but that was almost 7 years ago.

I'll be honest, I don't exactly feel guilt anymore, but the desire to justify, argue, defend and explain has stuck with me. Frankly, I am probably addicted to it. But you know what? My frustrated desire for closure, any residual guilt, those are just two ways a person can suffer. Endlessly putting up with crap from those who don't reliably love us, getting our boundaries stomped, being spoken to rudely -- those are also easy ways to suffer in this world. So you really have to pick which flavor of annoyance you prefer.

For us, I just don't see how we could ever re-build the bridge. And I think of this: given what has gone on, what boundaries would I insist upon if we did open back up? Well, I don't believe I'd ever let them communicate via email ever again. I will never again tolerate anything remotely false. I will never again even engage with something mean and critical. And then I think, so how long would this last with such standards? Not long, my friend. Not long.

So I accept that I have not gotten over it, even after 7 years. Not entirely. But neither has my wife had mean, destructive things said to her or written to her. We haven't walked on eggshells in 7 years. It is permanently sad to lose a loving parent and grandparent. That is not what happened to us. We unmoored ourselves from people who couldn't resist hating on us.

The pain you feel, I believe, is inescapable: it is the pain of having been assigned these PD folks in the role of parent. Your decision does not have as an option No Bad. Your choices are between ongoing pain of interaction, or residual guilt of non-interaction.

That said.........it is important to respect process. If -- I mean it, ONLY IF -- you think your heart requires it, some people feel the need to go slowly and step-wise carefully through boundaries and tactics before acquiescing to NC. It sounds to me like you took good care. But if your heart demands it, it is always respectable to give it ONE MORE shot (not two more -- not three).

Be good. Be strong.

Liketheducks · February 21, 2022, 05:12:53 PM

I've had a similar story. In offering "another shot".... I'm maintain that I would be open to a relationship, but in a changed state. I'm more VLC. Mostly we put in a dutiful holiday meal....and then text messages the rest of the year for holidays and birthdays. Mom did apologize to me over text. But, like you, it was followed by stuff that made me feel it was insincere. It wasn't a real apology. And, our interactions and her behavior confirm that. I'm ok with that.
It takes time to grieve what you deserved. You deserved a parent who put your needs first. It is enormously sad, but the reality is that you don't have that. Take time to acknowledge how sad that is. You are a survivor. You are learning to put yourself and your needs first. Crikey, a lot of people never get that. Way to go you! I wish I had learned that so much earlier. All my best decisions for me have come about my recognizing my feelings and putting them first. No one else is going to do that. You shouldn't put up with abuse, just because you're related. It is unhealthy for you and perpetuates the abuse. I have so many good friends that are more like family to me. (They don't understand any of this, but they're supportive)

I'm about 4 years out from the shift in my relationship with my mom. I no longer feel guilt. It did take me awhile to recognize that I was a really great daughter. I had to make lists of the good things I did for my mom, that were poopoo-ed by her. I made lists of all the great things about me as a person. I'm not the demon they make me out to be. I am actually a pretty stellar daughter to have put up with the crap for as long as I did. Funnily enough, I started to gray rock, and mom told the rest of my family that I had cut her off. I hadn't. I had made sure she understood that there was a hierarchy for my energy and she was not in the #1 spot. Me, my husband, my child....came first. There were LOTS of flying monkeys. My siblings until they reached the same conclusion, because I was no longer her source. Every once in a blue moon there is a distant cousin who writes me something scathing on social media. (Good God, thank you for the ability to block)
I have to acknowledge, that from her perspective, I'm doing wrong. She stayed in there with her mother in ways she shouldn't. I have some empathy for her for that. I'm not living up to the expectations she set. And, now, I'm ok with that. It took a lot of time. I don't need to live up to anyone's expectations but my own. I am not breaking any vows or committing any crimes by prioritizing my mental health and minimizing the FOO for my FOC. I'm adulting.

Now when we do interact, which is rare, I can see the ick coming from a mile away. And, sometimes, it just makes me sad.....sometimes it makes me laugh.

I know I will feel sad when she passes. But, not because of my choice to put myself first. Rather, that her dysfunction didn't allow us to have a closer relationship.

Hang in there. This absolutely sucks. It does get better though. I liken this to mourning someone who is still here. You have to mourn the parent who you needed, but that you've discovered was never really there in that role. Whatever path you choose, you're going to be ok.

moglow · February 22, 2022, 01:47:28 PM

I've been battling this for years. Too many. fauxpologies and guilt trips and flying monkeys, and me feeling I had to try just once more. Again and again, all my life.

I've had to face some pretty painful realities about myself, her and this relationship I clung to. Why? Because she's mother. I don't like her, can't trust her, lost all respect for her long ago but still. Mother.

Let's talk about those boundaries though - those are yours. Its your separation between yourself and others, any/all others and every relationship. It may vary somewhat depending on the person but we still need them. Sounds like you're like me, that simply wasn't allowed and you're not real sure how it works.

She tramples a boundary? You back off and shore it up. She disregards, you decide what to do going forward. You don't want to be around it? Don't be. Make no excuses and tell no lies, just go live your life. Find other peoples company you enjoy and places youd rather be. Responses like "I asked you to/to not do/say xyz and you did it anyway, knowing how I feel about it. So no, I'm not available." are pointed and sometimes help if you refuse to listen to their excuses.

Boundaries do no good if we can't defend them. It's all on us and that's hard to accept sometimes, harder when we know we're not heard. And that makes us step further away. I tried speaking up only to be talked over, louder and angrier than before. So I backed away even more.

I came out of six months NC feeling more peaceful and clear headed than ever before. She melted that down within six weeks, and I don't see me going back this time. I'm working on removing her voice, views and rages from my head and it's hard. Nonstop ruminating is wearing me down and making me cranky as hell. I have no desire to start all that back up with her.

I wish you peace on this journey, it's not easy.

makingachange · February 24, 2022, 02:11:59 PM

Quote from: Starboard Song on February 21, 2022, 03:14:48 PM
Quote from: makingachange on February 21, 2022, 12:25:24 PM
Will this guilt ever pass? Will I ever feel at peace about this...any thoughts about this or guidance from anyone else that feels this way, I'd love to hear what you have to say! =) I feel torn ...if I go back, I am terrified that my boundaries will be run over and not listened to...or that they will blow up to my boundaries....but, I am concerned as well if I don't go back if I'll feel guilty the rest of my life and feel heavy regret.

We had a story like yours. Outrageous mean things said, MIL called for an end to our relationship, and this time we decided not to normalize or accept the treatment. We set a couple of boundaries, those were ignored viciously, so we pulled the mic. Various things happened in the first couple years that drove some interactions, but that was almost 7 years ago.

I'll be honest, I don't exactly feel guilt anymore, but the desire to justify, argue, defend and explain has stuck with me. Frankly, I am probably addicted to it. But you know what? My frustrated desire for closure, any residual guilt, those are just two ways a person can suffer. Endlessly putting up with crap from those who don't reliably love us, getting our boundaries stomped, being spoken to rudely -- those are also easy ways to suffer in this world. So you really have to pick which flavor of annoyance you prefer.

For us, I just don't see how we could ever re-build the bridge. And I think of this: given what has gone on, what boundaries would I insist upon if we did open back up? Well, I don't believe I'd ever let them communicate via email ever again. I will never again tolerate anything remotely false. I will never again even engage with something mean and critical. And then I think, so how long would this last with such standards? Not long, my friend. Not long.

So I accept that I have not gotten over it, even after 7 years. Not entirely. But neither has my wife had mean, destructive things said to her or written to her. We haven't walked on eggshells in 7 years. It is permanently sad to lose a loving parent and grandparent. That is not what happened to us. We unmoored ourselves from people who couldn't resist hating on us.

The pain you feel, I believe, is inescapable: it is the pain of having been assigned these PD folks in the role of parent. Your decision does not have as an option No Bad. Your choices are between ongoing pain of interaction, or residual guilt of non-interaction.

That said.........it is important to respect process. If -- I mean it, ONLY IF -- you think your heart requires it, some people feel the need to go slowly and step-wise carefully through boundaries and tactics before acquiescing to NC. It sounds to me like you took good care. But if your heart demands it, it is always respectable to give it ONE MORE shot (not two more -- not three).

Be good. Be strong.

Thank you so much for responding and sharing your experiences with me! I have thought long and hard about this, the struggle between going back/trying to make this work...or breaking apart and staying on the same track as I have been now for some time...

I think right now, and what I choose to continue to do is keep NC. This is not the first time that this has happened with my mother and father...I have always seemed to just go back when things went chaotic. I would just bury all of it under the rug the best way I knew how and went at it again.

I just can't do it again. I feel in my heart this is what is best for me...I know if I went at them with boundaries it wouldn't last. I know that they wouldn't accept them or even want to try....maybe for a couple weeks, but then I feel it would lead to another angry outburst eventually, and this isn't something I want to experience again.

I completely understand what you mean that the pain is inescapable...it feels like since this has happened, I've wanted to move far away...I've wanted to travel...I wanted to "run"...and so, my family and I have travelled ....but, did it make the pain go away, no. It was nice to get away to clear my mind a bit...but it always is a dark cloud hovering near by...

I guess I have to say that I feel I am doing what is best for me...and if that makes me look like a "bad" person in their eyes...then so be it. I just know I can't do it again right now, and especially because this isn't the first time...

Again, I thank you SO much for your insights! I feel like your response has helped to clear my mind and help me to get on track, and I thank you for that!!

makingachange · February 24, 2022, 02:19:13 PM

Quote from: Liketheducks on February 21, 2022, 05:12:53 PM
I've had a similar story. In offering "another shot".... I'm maintain that I would be open to a relationship, but in a changed state. I'm more VLC. Mostly we put in a dutiful holiday meal....and then text messages the rest of the year for holidays and birthdays. Mom did apologize to me over text. But, like you, it was followed by stuff that made me feel it was insincere. It wasn't a real apology. And, our interactions and her behavior confirm that. I'm ok with that.
It takes time to grieve what you deserved. You deserved a parent who put your needs first. It is enormously sad, but the reality is that you don't have that. Take time to acknowledge how sad that is. You are a survivor. You are learning to put yourself and your needs first. Crikey, a lot of people never get that. Way to go you! I wish I had learned that so much earlier. All my best decisions for me have come about my recognizing my feelings and putting them first. No one else is going to do that. You shouldn't put up with abuse, just because you're related. It is unhealthy for you and perpetuates the abuse. I have so many good friends that are more like family to me. (They don't understand any of this, but they're supportive)

I'm about 4 years out from the shift in my relationship with my mom. I no longer feel guilt. It did take me awhile to recognize that I was a really great daughter. I had to make lists of the good things I did for my mom, that were poopoo-ed by her. I made lists of all the great things about me as a person. I'm not the demon they make me out to be. I am actually a pretty stellar daughter to have put up with the crap for as long as I did. Funnily enough, I started to gray rock, and mom told the rest of my family that I had cut her off. I hadn't. I had made sure she understood that there was a hierarchy for my energy and she was not in the #1 spot. Me, my husband, my child....came first. There were LOTS of flying monkeys. My siblings until they reached the same conclusion, because I was no longer her source. Every once in a blue moon there is a distant cousin who writes me something scathing on social media. (Good God, thank you for the ability to block)
I have to acknowledge, that from her perspective, I'm doing wrong. She stayed in there with her mother in ways she shouldn't. I have some empathy for her for that. I'm not living up to the expectations she set. And, now, I'm ok with that. It took a lot of time. I don't need to live up to anyone's expectations but my own. I am not breaking any vows or committing any crimes by prioritizing my mental health and minimizing the FOO for my FOC. I'm adulting.

Now when we do interact, which is rare, I can see the ick coming from a mile away. And, sometimes, it just makes me sad.....sometimes it makes me laugh.

I know I will feel sad when she passes. But, not because of my choice to put myself first. Rather, that her dysfunction didn't allow us to have a closer relationship.

Hang in there. This absolutely sucks. It does get better though. I liken this to mourning someone who is still here. You have to mourn the parent who you needed, but that you've discovered was never really there in that role. Whatever path you choose, you're going to be ok.

Thank you so much for your reply....I can relate with so much that you said. =) I am glad that you have figured out to a certain degree what works best for you and your mother. I know that it will get better at some point or at least some better...but it feels so uncomfortable at times right now. I think it is great that you decided to put yourself first in this and what is best for you on all levels.

I feel like I have done the same to a certain degree...and I think in their minds I'm just being "cruel"...

This is not the first time my parents have had this outrageous anger...this is not the first time at all...it has been an ongoing thing for so many years... I had just always went with it...but now, I feel like I can't do it anymore. I know that keep thinking there is something wrong with me, because they never in a million years thought I would stand up for myself...they always knew I'd come back. This time, I can't...I have allowed them to run all over my boundaries even when I tried to speak up. I know for my own mental health and well being, I need to stand firm in this.

It is funny when you are a child and only surrounded by your family and parents that you think it is normal...because you have never been exposed to other families...and you think "this must be how everyone is..." Until you move out, you expand, grow, and are exposed to others, you start to see the reality and what you thought was normal wasn't ever normal at all...

I feel like it has taken me a little while to get this, but I am seeing it clearly now...and I can't pretend, I can't put it under the rug anymore....I've tried to tell them that they were being mean/rude, but they turned it on me, like I'm the one not acting "normal"...

Thank you again SO much for sharing with me your story. It has helped me in the last couple days to understand what I want, and feel better, and I can't thank you enough for this! =)

makingachange · February 24, 2022, 02:27:18 PM

Quote from: moglow on February 22, 2022, 01:47:28 PM
I've been battling this for years. Too many. fauxpologies and guilt trips and flying monkeys, and me feeling I had to try just once more. Again and again, all my life.

I've had to face some pretty painful realities about myself, her and this relationship I clung to. Why? Because she's mother. I don't like her, can't trust her, lost all respect for her long ago but still. Mother.

Let's talk about those boundaries though - those are yours. Its your separation between yourself and others, any/all others and every relationship. It may vary somewhat depending on the person but we still need them. Sounds like you're like me, that simply wasn't allowed and you're not real sure how it works.

She tramples a boundary? You back off and shore it up. She disregards, you decide what to do going forward. You don't want to be around it? Don't be. Make no excuses and tell no lies, just go live your life. Find other peoples company you enjoy and places youd rather be. Responses like "I asked you to/to not do/say xyz and you did it anyway, knowing how I feel about it. So no, I'm not available." are pointed and sometimes help if you refuse to listen to their excuses.

Boundaries do no good if we can't defend them. It's all on us and that's hard to accept sometimes, harder when we know we're not heard. And that makes us step further away. I tried speaking up only to be talked over, louder and angrier than before. So I backed away even more.

I came out of six months NC feeling more peaceful and clear headed than ever before. She melted that down within six weeks, and I don't see me going back this time. I'm working on removing her voice, views and rages from my head and it's hard. Nonstop ruminating is wearing me down and making me cranky as hell. I have no desire to start all that back up with her.

I wish you peace on this journey, it's not easy.

First off, thank you so much for sharing this with me! I thank you for that!!

Yes, I completely agree with you about the boundaries...I have tried over the years to make boundaries in my own way, but they were ignored...nothing I had to say mattered...and at times my opinion, and what I had chosen to do with my own family, was ignored by her. It was like she would just ignore what I had even said acting like she never heard it...when I would say what I thought, or tell her no, I'm not doing that, she would come at me at times with a weird remark about something else that she knew would maybe cause me anxiety? It felt like she purposely did things to try to bother me...or hurt me...?

I know if I were to go back to her and my father and say, this is what I am willing to do...these are my boundaries...it would be laughed at...criticized...and most likely not accepted.

Our relationship has been mostly text messages....and when I was in the process of gray rocking her, I told her Happy Birthday or something like that....she wrote back 2 days later and said, "If I don't hear from you I am coming over to your house and check on you." I said, "I just told you Happy Birthday 2 days ago..." She said...."Ha, I need more"....(At the time that didn't make a lot of sense...but now that I am seeing ALL of this here, it makes me feel like she was openly saying...I need more supply?)

I think at the end of the day, it has to be about what makes "us" feel comfortable...and what is best for us and our own health. I know this interaction with them for me isn't healthy...heart pounding/cold sweats/fear they'll show up at my house....this is not good.

I know right now you are feeling a lot of this too...and I feel for you as well! I know that you will find peace too...stay strong in this...and do what is right for you, my friend. I know right now feels tough...but, I am sending you big hugs...I hope things get better for you soon!

Thank you again so much, I appreciate you deeply!