What is friendship supposed to be about?

[pianissimo]

These days, I'm in the process of evaluating my friendship with yet another person in my life. My current situation is that, there are people I'm in touch with, I have cordial relationships with them. I used to be friends with a couple of them, but friendships didn't work out for me.

During this time, another thing that happened with me is that, I stopped talking about things if I felt like I had unprocessed emotions around them. These include anger, resentment, fear, despair, sadness... The vulnerable stuff. And, it kind of works for me. At least, for now.

Again, something I'm trying to do is to sit with people's feelings. When the person is sad or upset, I refrain myself from managing their mood. As I write this, I wonder if I'm being cruel or something, but, in one occasion I did this, it felt like it worked for both sides. 

Now, I'm at this point, I'm realizing, a person I thought I was friends with is probably not a friend in a way I define it. I guess, I consider a person friend when they know me in a meaningful way. I'm now realizing, she is not able to know me, understand what I'm about, despite my efforts to explain myself to her, and be transparent with her (she possiply doesn't have the concept). What I mean here is, when she does something, I kind of understand where she's coming from. I guess, to some extent, this applies to everybody I meet. Even if I don't know somebody too well, if I'm interacting with them regularly, with some background info, I kind of understand why they are behaving in a certain way. So, the more I know about a person, the more I'm able to see their perspective. But with this friend, when I look at myself from her perspective, I can see that I'm a big question mark for her. For me, this means, she's not my friend, and she's not able to be my friend.

Here, I'm wondering your thoughts about this. I'm also aware of this perspective to expect from people what they can give, but, in my case, even these kinds of friendships become one-sided quite quickly. Sometimes, people don't understand the bond we have is superficial, and they become dissappointed when they discover something they don't like about me (when they see me) . Sometimes, people don't realise I understand when they are bullshitting, and they become disappointed when I don't fall for their garbage. Sometimes, I draw boundaries, and people cross them to feel like they are familiar with me. I do ask myself if it's me who is triggered in these kinds of situations. There always comes a point that makes me feel like, to people, I'm a thing that does a trick for them. Everytime, this makes me suffer, it comes as a big disappointment, it makes me feel lonely.

Is what I'm expecting (to be known in a meaningful way) too much? Is this something in my head that cannot be attained? Is this the need of the child in me? Am I supposed to have a different emotional need as an adult?  I kind of feel starved these days.

[1footouttadefog]

It seems to me that you have a struggle I myself and so many on this website have had regarding friendships. 

My take on it is this.  Empathic people are targets for PD people.  Therefore empathic folks are over represented among the nons that narcs and other pds select to present their false selves to for relationships.

When it's parents and children or other assymetrical relationships the empaths are often targeted for abuse and exploitation from among the group of potential targets.

All these situations are very apt to leave the empaths with an expectation of becoming enmeshed when they need friend outside of the pd relationships.

Because the pd relationships have no real intimacy, at least no two way exchange of real selves the empathic non is left empty and seeking connection.

This causes the non to want to enmesh and over share and over connect, or become emotionally intimate too quickly in the friendships they make.

For normal average folks we meet  there are different friendships at different levels.  A closely connected best friend is considered a rare thing.  That level of intamacy is reserved for a very few relationships in most people's lives if they are lucky this includes their spouse.

Empaths who are impacted, or trained up and developed by pds in their lives often find themselves unsatisfied with what seems like "superficiality" in many interactions. 

It may very well be that this friend you discuss just does not desire to be more connected with you. She might be happy with the level of the relationship where it is and find it awkward when you try to increase the connection emotionally. 

I found it's best to make friends and accept that most will be at a more superficial level of merely socializing and being company for a given cause.  Among these I will find deeper friendships but those will be few and precious.  It will take time and trust for these to grow into a deeper level of connection.  If I accept the level I will likely have in advance these friendships don't seem frustrated or disappointing and when one develops further it will be a pleasant surprise not an expectation or an entitlement. 

I have a friend I meet to drink a couple beers and eat wings with. We discuss politics and conspiracy theories.  We catch up in home repairs and garden steuggles as well.  This is it.  Not very emotionally connected, just social company for the most part.  And we share an interest in these topics  whereas my other friends would sit with eyes glazed over if I brought them up.  Instead of expecting the other friends to engage in this, I accept their  lack of interest.  They don't need to be everything, one size fits all, they are unique individuals. 

I have friends in a hobby group.  We talk hobby.  A little outside of that but mostly the hobby.  There are a couple among them I am a bit closer to, but mostly It's about the hobby and intensely so.  We're I to discuss the hobby with other friends they would be bored after the first few sentences.  They will ask, How are the _________? They might mention something they saw on the news related to it and ask a question or two.  Beyond that is not interesting to them.  I don't expect them to be.   

I have women I meet with for Bible study, we share personal and emotional things but are still not enmeshed.  We get each other at acertain level but avoid nitty gritty details as that would be gossip. 

I have a friend who I go shopping with and talk about cooking with and we share frustrations and concerns but I am not emotionally deeply connected with her.  We share recipes and let each other know about bargains on high end foods and will even pick up items for each other. 

If this friendship you posted about is not working so be it, but consider that you may simply change your expectations and adjust to what is a healthy level for the both of you.  This relieves you of disappointment and takes pressure off of her to change emotional boundaries. 

Also, in the same way some folks are more bright than others, and some are more artistic than others, or musical,  some folks are just not very emotional creatures.  People are different.  Adjusting to these differences is what it's about.  Additionally the willingness to lower the emotional boundary and what level of trust that requires can vary alot from person to person.  If you are pushing up against that too soon you might seem unsafe to them, which in turn, raises the boundaries higher.

Just tossing these thoughts out there, in case something resonates.  They might not apply.

[pianissimo]

Thanks for your response 1footouttadefog. I have been following the posts about friendship in the other section too. My situation felt different somehow.

I think that I have been struggling, so I need people who would be there for me. So, here, I have a question. If you need help or support, do you feel free to talk about it with some of your friends? In my case, as I mentioned in the forum, I needed to talk about my struggle with driving. But, this wasn't welcome. To me, this doesn't make sense. There were actually other people who weren't my friends who shared their struggle with driving, offered me support if I needed it. So, the thing with the driving can't be oversharing or asking for too much, or is it? What do you think?

What happened with this friend is... I moved near work to fix my situation. The other day we met up for lunch, and, we had a conversation on the way. In that conversation, I realized that, she was worried about what my move meant for her. I suppose there is this idea that my move will set an example for her (and possibly others). She's afraid she will be pressured to move near work too. I got angry while talking to her, but I was in a good mood, so I wasn't in touch with the anger the talk triggered. Then, later, I realized, the reason this conversation made me angry was because there was this huge agony behind my decision to move. I had actually talked about how miserable the commute was making me, how exhausted I was. But, none of this was registered by her.

[1footouttadefog]

Again there are different friend types.

It seems this one is not really there for you.  It might be more about her, ie somewhat once sided.  If that is the case you have to accept that and adjust this friendship accordingly. 

I don't think discussing this driving situation is over sharing material.  But then again  I had a friend with super bad driving anxiety and his discussion of it would have easily been dark and over sharing material.  Discussing teaching him to drive could be over sharing, Lol. 

One a more serious note,  Generally discussing the ins and outs of learning to drive should be okay.  That this friend registers your move as something that impacts her is a bit self centered at best.  Seems like she is conflicted with it being a good idea she might be forced to look at.  That is her issue not yours. You are both adults and can chose your own solutions.  We all have adult pressure and job and transport options to weigh and balance regardless of who our friends are.


I have different friends I would discuss varying things with.  I have however lost a couple deer ones this past year and they will likely not be easily replaced.  I will keep seeking new friends until I find those special few among them. 

[pianissimo]

Thanks for your perspective 1footouttadefog.

I later wondered if I'm doing all-or-nothing thinking around the concept of friendship.

I also agree with you that stuff about driving anxiety might be oversharing. I suppose people react differently, and, back in the city, my circle was small. When you have a wider network, people who can take it might reach out somehow.

Perhaps I should adopt more fluid definitions of friendship.

[1footouttadefog]

I am glad the world around me seems to be post covid for the most part.  There is a war going on that could have some impacts potentially but that would actually motivate my hobby groups to be more active.

I am looking forward to finding new members to add to my tribe.  As I mentioned I lost some to death this past year or two and I feel those losses. 

While I cannot just go find replacements for deer folks, I can at least be in the world where great people exist around me and hope to stumble into some good matches.

The definition of friendship can be as varried as the friends.  No two alike.