When Dad goes - dont speak to brother

[p123]

Not spoken to FM brother for years and I don't intend to.
At some point, Dad is going to pass. Brother has no way of contacting me - even if he would try.

I know Dad, in his supreme stupidity, has basically split his will 50/50 and put BOTH of us down as executors. Thats going to be awkward.
As is the funeral to be honest.

Anyone been in this situation? How did you manage?

I think I've mentioned before - Dad has a flat/apartment that he part owns. 50% left to each of us. Brother has mentioned before (when we used to speak) that he was going to move into the flat. Hes not very bright - the concept that he'd have to buy me out of my share would go way over his head - he'd think "its going spare, P owns a house, I don't, so why not?".

In terms of Dads savings, half of it would not be enough for brother to buy me out. Financially hes a nightmare so wouldnt get a loan at all.

I guess I'm going to be the "bad one" pointing this out. I half expect him to move in sharpish when Dad goes - then hes there sort of thing....
Could be a bit of a nightmare.

Any suggestions for this one?

[Call Me Cordelia]

I guess what is your goal? The title implies not speaking to bro is most important to you. I don't know UK law but here you can decline to serve as executor. It's also a legitmate option to sacrifice some or all "inheritance" and let bro think he's won but you get to walk away. My suggestion is to get some legal advice ahead of time so you have a plan and can simply execute it when the time comes.

[Sneezy]

I highly recommend you get a lawyer when the time comes.  In the U.S., if there are co-executors they usually both have to agree and sign off on everything.  But that may be preferable to letting your brother run the whole show.  Also, if your dad's flat goes to both of you equally, and your brother moves in, are you responsible for half the expenses, taxes, etc. if your brother doesn't pay?  I have no idea how that works, but I wouldn't want to be a co-owner of a flat that I didn't live in and had no control over.  All kinds of issues and questions could come up with regard to your dad's estate.  You could talk to a lawyer now, so that you are prepared when the time comes.  But definitely make sure you have someone working on your behalf, someone who knows the system inside and out, when the time comes.

[nanotech]

I think the advice about talking to a lawyer is good.
I think you can also get mediation? Not sure but worth looking into.
This is going to affect me too.
So far, Nbrother and me are executors. He's a solicitor, so it's going to be fun!
I've toyed with the idea of withdrawing, but I think instead I'll just get legal help from the get go.
Always assuming I'm still an executor, not cut out of the will by then. Nbrother is also Power of Attourney. If my dad becomes unable to make decisions, anything could happen.
I've decided though, that this stuff isn't worth worrying about. I'll deal with it as it occurs.
I don't see my brother either. When I do, it's likely to be dad' s funeral then the executors meeting.
I'm just going to do what he had done when he sees me face to face- be polite yet distant in terms of emotional input.
Remember that your bro won't have your dad to triangulate through. Neither will my bro. He's much more of a drama triangle person than a direct accused. Face to face, all he has is his coldness. It used to upset me, and  I'd over function emotionally, looking for validation. Not any more. I'll be cool and calm now. 
In the past I've overfunctioned to try to normalise the family system, which works on transactions, or else, drama and blaming.  One therapist told me that she thought I carried the emotions of the whole family, and that's why everything got dumped on me.  They expected me to over-give love, and over- take blame.
Meanwhile they carried on using and competing with each other. Kris Godinez talks about transactional behaviour in dysfunctional PD families.
P123 I think that it will be a tricky time for you, but if you treat it like a transaction. okay then at their own game, it'll be ok. Try not to respond to anything emotionally, and just focus on the facts. I know it's hard.  Im sure I'm going to have to bat away some drama while conversing. I'm ready for it!

[p123]

I guess what is your goal? The title implies not speaking to bro is most important to you. I don't know UK law but here you can decline to serve as executor. It's also a legitmate option to sacrifice some or all "inheritance" and let bro think he's won but you get to walk away. My suggestion is to get some legal advice ahead of time so you have a plan and can simply execute it when the time comes.

Money not bothered - dont really need it. I don't want my loser brother to have it all though......

I can be civil to brother but I know it if we've got joint responsibility to sort out funeral etc it wont work. I also know hes VERY likely to cause a scene at a funeral (hes done similar in the past) - not keen on that.

[p123]

I highly recommend you get a lawyer when the time comes.  In the U.S., if there are co-executors they usually both have to agree and sign off on everything.  But that may be preferable to letting your brother run the whole show.  Also, if your dad's flat goes to both of you equally, and your brother moves in, are you responsible for half the expenses, taxes, etc. if your brother doesn't pay?  I have no idea how that works, but I wouldn't want to be a co-owner of a flat that I didn't live in and had no control over.  All kinds of issues and questions could come up with regard to your dad's estate.  You could talk to a lawyer now, so that you are prepared when the time comes.  But definitely make sure you have someone working on your behalf, someone who knows the system inside and out, when the time comes.

The flat is very complicated. Dad part-owns it - pays rent on the 40% he doesnt own.

[p123]

I think the advice about talking to a lawyer is good.
I think you can also get mediation? Not sure but worth looking into.
This is going to affect me too.
So far, Nbrother and me are executors. He's a solicitor, so it's going to be fun!
I've toyed with the idea of withdrawing, but I think instead I'll just get legal help from the get go.
Always assuming I'm still an executor, not cut out of the will by then. Nbrother is also Power of Attourney. If my dad becomes unable to make decisions, anything could happen.
I've decided though, that this stuff isn't worth worrying about. I'll deal with it as it occurs.
I don't see my brother either. When I do, it's likely to be dad' s funeral then the executors meeting.
I'm just going to do what he had done when he sees me face to face- be polite yet distant in terms of emotional input.
Remember that your bro won't have your dad to triangulate through. Neither will my bro. He's much more of a drama triangle person than a direct accused. Face to face, all he has is his coldness. It used to upset me, and  I'd over function emotionally, looking for validation. Not any more. I'll be cool and calm now. 
In the past I've overfunctioned to try to normalise the family system, which works on transactions, or else, drama and blaming.  One therapist told me that she thought I carried the emotions of the whole family, and that's why everything got dumped on me.  They expected me to over-give love, and over- take blame.
Meanwhile they carried on using and competing with each other. Kris Godinez talks about transactional behaviour in dysfunctional PD families.
P123 I think that it will be a tricky time for you, but if you treat it like a transaction. okay then at their own game, it'll be ok. Try not to respond to anything emotionally, and just focus on the facts. I know it's hard.  Im sure I'm going to have to bat away some drama while conversing. I'm ready for it!

Brother is somewhat "unique" and well known for his temper. I can see it happening. Hes got previous (even with the law) for it.

Personally, I think I could deal with it on a cordial basis but I'm 1000% sure he won't. This is the fella who, when I said I couldn't commit to what he had planned for looking after Dad messaged my wife telling her how selfish SHE was and saying he hopes our children drop dead.

Extreme reactions are the norm for brother. He'd have no qualms about causing the scene or getting physical at Dads funeral - he did something similar once before and got arrested.

[nanotech]

I think the advice about talking to a lawyer is good.
I think you can also get mediation? Not sure but worth looking into.
This is going to affect me too.
So far, Nbrother and me are executors. He's a solicitor, so it's going to be fun!
I've toyed with the idea of withdrawing, but I think instead I'll just get legal help from the get go.
Always assuming I'm still an executor, not cut out of the will by then. Nbrother is also Power of Attourney. If my dad becomes unable to make decisions, anything could happen.
I've decided though, that this stuff isn't worth worrying about. I'll deal with it as it occurs.
I don't see my brother either. When I do, it's likely to be dad' s funeral then the executors meeting.
I'm just going to do what he had done when he sees me face to face- be polite yet distant in terms of emotional input.
Remember that your bro won't have your dad to triangulate through. Neither will my bro. He's much more of a drama triangle person than a direct accused. Face to face, all he has is his coldness. It used to upset me, and  I'd over function emotionally, looking for validation. Not any more. I'll be cool and calm now. 
In the past I've overfunctioned to try to normalise the family system, which works on transactions, or else, drama and blaming.  One therapist told me that she thought I carried the emotions of the whole family, and that's why everything got dumped on me.  They expected me to over-give love, and over- take blame.
Meanwhile they carried on using and competing with each other. Kris Godinez talks about transactional behaviour in dysfunctional PD families.
P123 I think that it will be a tricky time for you, but if you treat it like a transaction. okay then at their own game, it'll be ok. Try not to respond to anything emotionally, and just focus on the facts. I know it's hard.  Im sure I'm going to have to bat away some drama while conversing. I'm ready for it!

Brother is somewhat "unique" and well known for his temper. I can see it happening. Hes got previous (even with the law) for it.

Personally, I think I could deal with it on a cordial basis but I'm 1000% sure he won't. This is the fella who, when I said I couldn't commit to what he had planned for looking after Dad messaged my wife telling her how selfish SHE was and saying he hopes our children drop dead.

Extreme reactions are the norm for brother. He'd have no qualms about causing the scene or getting physical at Dads funeral - he did something similar once before and got arrested.

OMG 😳
Your brother!
I'm speechless, why would he say those things and behave like that?  I'm really shocked.  My issues don't seem like much now. My brother only warriors on the keyboard or through others.
I'd take legal advice on it now and have a clear plan set out.

[Poison Ivy]

You have my sympathy, p123. I do get along with my siblings but our mom sometimes pushes my buttons. Yesterday, she called to tell me that she will be changing her will to give my sister the family house. My sister has been living with our mom since the pandemic started, and I'm nearly 100% certain that everyone in the family thinks it's not only okay but good for mom to leave the house to her. But my mom gave me this news in such a way that it seemed as though she wanted to get a rise out of me.

[p123]

I think the advice about talking to a lawyer is good.
I think you can also get mediation? Not sure but worth looking into.
This is going to affect me too.
So far, Nbrother and me are executors. He's a solicitor, so it's going to be fun!
I've toyed with the idea of withdrawing, but I think instead I'll just get legal help from the get go.
Always assuming I'm still an executor, not cut out of the will by then. Nbrother is also Power of Attourney. If my dad becomes unable to make decisions, anything could happen.
I've decided though, that this stuff isn't worth worrying about. I'll deal with it as it occurs.
I don't see my brother either. When I do, it's likely to be dad' s funeral then the executors meeting.
I'm just going to do what he had done when he sees me face to face- be polite yet distant in terms of emotional input.
Remember that your bro won't have your dad to triangulate through. Neither will my bro. He's much more of a drama triangle person than a direct accused. Face to face, all he has is his coldness. It used to upset me, and  I'd over function emotionally, looking for validation. Not any more. I'll be cool and calm now. 
In the past I've overfunctioned to try to normalise the family system, which works on transactions, or else, drama and blaming.  One therapist told me that she thought I carried the emotions of the whole family, and that's why everything got dumped on me.  They expected me to over-give love, and over- take blame.
Meanwhile they carried on using and competing with each other. Kris Godinez talks about transactional behaviour in dysfunctional PD families.
P123 I think that it will be a tricky time for you, but if you treat it like a transaction. okay then at their own game, it'll be ok. Try not to respond to anything emotionally, and just focus on the facts. I know it's hard.  Im sure I'm going to have to bat away some drama while conversing. I'm ready for it!

Brother is somewhat "unique" and well known for his temper. I can see it happening. Hes got previous (even with the law) for it.

Personally, I think I could deal with it on a cordial basis but I'm 1000% sure he won't. This is the fella who, when I said I couldn't commit to what he had planned for looking after Dad messaged my wife telling her how selfish SHE was and saying he hopes our children drop dead.

Extreme reactions are the norm for brother. He'd have no qualms about causing the scene or getting physical at Dads funeral - he did something similar once before and got arrested.

OMG 😳
Your brother!
I'm speechless, why would he say those things and behave like that?  I'm really shocked.  My issues don't seem like much now. My brother only warriors on the keyboard or through others.
I'd take legal advice on it now and have a clear plan set out.

Yes you can see why I don't bother with him......
Previously hes also rolled it all out onto facebook. So everyone can see. Obviously presents his side and does his best to make me look like the bad son.....

Dad has tried a few times "sort it out with your brother". Sorry not interested.

[nanotech]

Yes I've had that said - the responsibility of the other sibling's/ parent's  bad behaviour toward me was all too often  laid at my door to 'sort out'. In others words, I was supposed to allow the behaviour.

Facebook? ughh. Nothing on there is real. It's the only contact my siblings want from me, and they haven't got it any more.

[p123]

Yes I've had that said - the responsibility of the other sibling's/ parent's  bad behaviour toward me was all too often  laid at my door to 'sort out'. In others words, I was supposed to allow the behaviour.

Facebook? ughh. Nothing on there is real. It's the only contact my siblings want from me, and they haven't got it any more.

Oh yes. Many times....

I've been passive through all of this. I never ever bothered to fight back against the abuse I got from brother. I just cut him off not interested in having you in my life. And I told Dad this.... I'm not kicking off about it but hes chosen to do what hes chosen to do and I dont want any part of it.

Same with my wife. My brother and Dad have treated her really badly. And I told Dad this. She has decided she wants nothing to do with my Dad. Fair enough - she has every right to do so, and I fully support her and even if I didnt she can make her mind up.

Dad hates it - he thinks hes perfect. Dad has told me MANY times to "sort her out". Last time I told him this was the last time I ever hear him say that because hes made his bed hear and he has to lie in it. If he thinks I'm going to take his side (even though hes well in the wrong) over my wife hes got another thing coming. He didnt like that at all....

[1footouttadefog]

You will want a lawyer to help with this.  Your bro can get his own or he can work with you through your lawyer.

[p123]

You will want a lawyer to help with this.  Your bro can get his own or he can work with you through your lawyer.

Hmm yes I was thinking I may be forced down that route.

Not sure whether its worth thinking about now or when the time comes?

[moglow]

You may be borrowing trouble, to use my grandmothers words. There's no way to know what your father has planned, if anything at all. And even if he's done it now  he can change it at any time. Me, I'd leave it be and tackle it when I have to. Don't let him steal your joy!

[p123]

You may be borrowing trouble, to use my grandmothers words. There's no way to know what your father has planned, if anything at all. And even if he's done it now  he can change it at any time. Me, I'd leave it be and tackle it when I have to. Don't let him steal your joy!

I know Dad has the will 50/50. BUT hes put both us down as executors and I've tried to say, look dad, one or the other is best.

On the subject of his flat, hes said "oh yes it'd be nice if you're brother had the flat because hes not got his own house like you". "But I want him to buy you're share off you".

Yeh, never going to happen. Brother will move in. Tell everyone he needs the flat and I don't because "I've got a big house already and its not fair". Even if you could manage to explain that yes fine, but you would need to buy my share he'll just shrug his shoulders and say "well I've not got any have I?"

As I'm sure I've said before, brother attitude to taxes and debt in general is to throw letters in the bin, then when things get hairy, post om facebook how unfair life is and they're always picking on the working man. And Dad tend to agree with him. Chances of him getting a loan to buy a pet hamster are pretty nil to be honest.

Of course, those of us who pay our taxes, debts and never get into this sort of trouble are "lucky to have nice houses".

It  is like we live in 2 different worlds to be honest - if not two different planets.

[feralcat]

Hi. I'm in the UK. You can write to the firm who did the Will and tell them you're not willing to be an Executor. No one can be forced to be one. It's voluntary. My M  put me down as one, together with my youngest (very enmeshed) Sis . Without even asking me, because all the others refused. And I'm 'sensible'.
When one of my brothers died , I saw the S&@& show sorting his stuff out became. Even though he had a Will. Enmeshed and opinionated family, or what !
So I asked said Sis if we could talk on the phone about how we'd play it when M dies. Considering how far apart we live ( and we're VLC so that doesn't help). Pre planning. Nope. She wanted me to travel and sit down with M. Whyyyyy?
(M would love that, Queen Bee triangulating par excellence, drama - she loves banging on about her Will, she'd deviate all over the place). M has laid out her  funeral plans, even a Living Will. Sis kept on pushing that.
Eventually she declared I wasn't an executor (?).

Fantastic. She wants to do it herself, great. Suits me down to the ground. If it turns out I still am an executor , I'll refuse. They can all scrat about for the money, if there's anything left that they haven't got hold of already. I'll stay over here in Wales and eat my popcorn. I don't want her money. I don't even really want to go to the funeral, but I probably will, making some excuse for sitting up the back. Shame people don't wear those hats with veils on any more. I could channel my Jackie Kennedy.

P123. My advice ? Lawyer up when the time comes - let your's be your proxy if you want your share. Or renounce it if you don't want the hassle. NB if you do fight it, be aware the solicitors fees may wipe out your share anyway.