Recent epiphany - do you have these too?

[Poppy]

As I'm healing from the trauma as a result of growing up with 2 NP parents and possibly a Nsis (or lots of fleas at least) I find I sometimes have these epiphanies, sudden flashes of insight about how I came to be the way I am.

I recently realised that when I was younger, I would be so afraid to drive. I was worried I wouldn't see cars coming, or when I looked over my shoulder to change lanes, I'd worry I would THINK it'd be safe, but actually I'd miss the car in the other lane entirely and crash into them. I never wanted to be first in line at a stop sign, for fear of not being able to see where the road led and I'd end up in a lane with oncoming traffic.

I always assumed it was because I was so insecure when I was younger, and my parents would always praise my sibling's driving and say it just wasn't what I was made to do 
But now I just realised it was because I was so severely gaslighted all my life that I was totally unable to rely on my own perceptions. My reality being questioned all the time, being told things are different from what I actually saw happen, what I felt, perceived and heard... must have led me to this level of mistrust of myself. I truly believed I was unable to trust what my own damn eyes told me... And I never before put the pieces together that this was because of their abuse.

Oh my god, this was such a painful realisation. I feel so sad for my younger self. And amazed at how far I've come since then (although there's a long road ahead still).

Please share any such realisations if you have these too! I'm curious to hear about yours.

[KatKp29]

Hi Poppy!
So sorry you had to grow up in that kind of environment.
My husband and his 3 younger brothers grew up with an NPD mom and their father was her flying monkey.
About 2 years ago I was diagnosed with OCD and went to therapy. Eventually my husband joined me in therapy to help with my problem and it became a couples therapy of sorts, just finding ways we can both help each other in dealing with my mental illness. Long story short, these sessions are what made us look into his mother as she was also a big stressor in our lives and relationship. We discovered what I had long suspected and that was that she did seem to fit all the criteria for narcissistic personality disorder.

When my husband and I would have arguments sometimes I would break down and cry. I am a very emotional person in general(sad movies make me bawl). I would always notice how whenever I would start to get upset..he would just shut down. Mentally and emotionally you could just see him go somewhere else. Sometimes he would even get downright annoyed or angry. I tried to understand because it takes a huge emotional toll on your family members too when you're dealing with a mental illness. Still, it bothered me. Fast forward to just a month or so ago. My husband and I having a discussion about how his mother will react if we tell her we need space etc and he mentions she will have an emotional breakdown and cry etc. He then stops and looks at me and says "omg, I think that's the reason that I seem so cold sometimes if you get upset or emotional" I've been conditioned to see crying as a manipulation tool because of my mom and I just think anyone who cries is trying to manipulate or guilt-trip me". I felt so bad for my husband because he usually never gets too emotionally in depth like that but he just started talking about it. He's starting to realize that these things his mom did to him have effected him even though he never used to think so. It was a nice moment of clarity for him to be able to see that and I'm glad he was able to.
His two youngest brothers were both really pushed into sports. Recently the four of them were talking about their childhood and growing up with their parents. The youngest brother is forced to play basketball and he really doesn't want to anymore. He graduates high school this spring. They mentioned how they've never enjoyed playing sports because of how much pressure their mom(and dad to a less extent) put on them. After a game, she would tell them "I took the time to come watch your game and you played like that" "why didn't the coach give you more time in the game, are you not working hard enough?" This was said to 10-12 year old kids. Just disgusting. They all agreed that she is the reason none of them ever really enjoyed school sports. Too much pressure..where's the fun in that??
I guess that's what PD parents do. I'm sure you will all realize even more crap you were forced to take that you shouldn't have had to. It's like my youngest BIL said "our family is not normal, our parents relationship is not normal" .

But so sorry you had to deal with that as well. Stay strong!! We are in the process of trying to go from minimal contact to hopefully no contact in the future and it's amazing what just a week of no drama and peace of mind can do!

[Rocketman]

Poppy,
I've recently had my own epiphany, mainly centered around anger that I feel.  Growing up, mistakes were punished and I learned they needed to be avoided at all costs.  If I ever made a silly mistake, I'd hear things like "you're so smart for so many things, and yet you're an idiot for others" (I was a straight A student as a teenager).  If my partner ever displayed any kind of frustration with something I forgot or did incorrectly or whatnot, I internalized a fierce short lived anger that I quickly let go of (buried).  Since these were small things that usually resulted in me running to the store or something, the car ride would be a symphony of swear words and frustration.

I recently realized that my anger was triggered by my sense of self worth being taken from me.  Growing up, I got so used to my self worth being at risk if I ever upset anyone, this manifested in intense anger that I kept to myself.  It would make sense for someone to feel a bit sad if they disappointed someone, but why was my instinct to get so angry?  I never thought about this until when I felt that old anger bubbling up and noticed myself giving away my self worth instead of giving myself some grace.  For so long I put my value in someone else's hands and deep down that made me upset, though I never could have explained that until I came to the realization only recently.  Thankfully, I haven't had to put that to the test, but I'm adding it to the pile of other things I've noticed haha it's one of the more major ones since I've started recovery though...

[moglow]

Growing up, mistakes were punished and I learned they needed to be avoided at all costs...

To further this thought, I learned that mistakes would also bring ridicule, usually when one least expected it.


I was a "get by" student - reasonably intelligent and very well behaved but hated to be called on in class. All eyes on me while I stammer out the answer? No thank you. I wanted to get through with as little fuss and recognition as possible. In 9th grade I made the A honor roll, all As in every subject and i was stunned!! Me?! I took that report card home and md asked if my teachers wrote down the wrong grades ... I was told to take it back and ask my teachers before she signed as having received it. One teacher laughed then realized i was serious, she treated me differently after that, seemed to make a point to encourage me. I never made the A honor roll again.


I didn't go to college, never really considered it. I didnt think i could do it and certainly wouldn't have had md support of any kind. I took a few courses years later [after I'd left her house] because they were made available to me by my employer. They were easy and i enjoyed them. What might a little encouragement, simple congratulations have done for that kid and the adult she'd become?

[Cat of the Canals]

I had one just this week. One of the things PDmom likes to do is tell me she needs something from me and then demand I contact her (for instructions, naturally). I've helped her with website/tech stuff for many years, so one of the things she'll do is leave a message that she "has a website question" and I need to call her. It would be much simpler, of course, if she either outlined her question IN THE MESSAGE or sent me an email. Why insist on making me jump through a hoop by calling her to get more information??? Oh, because resources, that's why.

Anyway, it didn't occur to me exactly how pervasive this pattern was or how infuriating I found it until an internet acquaintance started doing the exact same thing this week! "I need your advice on [topic], please email me at EMAIL@HERE." Not only has he not asked for my help, but I'm supposed to email him. I've already gotten some PD-esque vibes from this guy, so that's not gonna happen.

[donutmoonpanda]

I have a very obviously NPD dad who seemed to be the root of so many issues. I remember realizing that the voice in my head that used to beat me up and make me depressed was actually his voice. I knew from the time I was very little that if I ever wanted to be happy I had to remove him from my life. So that's what I did.

But it wasn't until nearly 40 when I realized that my En-Mom is also a monster. That years of having a tumultuous and painful relationship with her is directly related to her personality issues that I failed to see before.

I'm finally understanding how she had a terrible impact on me as a child, how she made things worse, how she had power that she used to hurt and betray me over any over again. So this year is nothing but epiphanies for me. It's the year of epiphanies. Here's one: I always thought that if she had left my NPD Dad when I was a little that my life would be completely different and certainly much better. But now I can see that's not true. If she had left him, she would not have taken me of my brother with her. She would have found another man, remarried, rarely ever seeing us/giving up custody (because that's what dad would've wanted), starting a new family, and replacing us. Outside of fog, I can see clearly what would have happened. I have decades of evidence that tell a story I never wanted to face before.

I was taught to doubt myself constantly. I thought I had one bad parent and one safe one. I didn't. I had nothing. I was raised by two abusive people who have the emotional maturity of 14-year-olds. I was raised by two 14-year-olds who didn't want to be parents and used their children to derive whatever gain or pleasure they could manage to extract from us. They both continue to be manipulative, toxic people who harm everyone they come into contact with. I was gaslit into thinking en-mom was a pretty nice lady, but her narcissism just manifests in a different way. Something was screaming inside of me to wake up to reality for a long long time.

[Hilltop]

Yep plenty of epiphanies along the way.  I find I have a massive epiphany and then I move along until the next one and with them does come a lot of insight.  My most recent was that I thought I was getting along nicely with my healing until just recently I realised that I am really just at the beginning.  To move into healing I need to emotionally detach from my parents and learn to just be me.  A lot of what I have been doing is still very reactive with my parents, so although I understand more I am really still reacting the same to them.  I am not distancing from them because that's what I want, I am distancing from them because I can't handle it and how they treat me, but they are still there in my head.

I had a lot of epiphanies around noticing what I was actually feeling, how much anger I had inside and how that relates to feelings of low self worth which was told to me by my parents, epiphanies around patterns of behaviours in my FOO and how that plays out in the extended family as well. Also to see that my parents are not going to change and more recently that my expectations were that I wanted them to act differently ie not insult me, to make me feel better which is actually wanting them to change when in reality they aren't going to so I can only change me and that comes down to changing my inner feelings of low self worth.  That is what I actually need to heal.  The crux of it.  My focus has always been on them when really my focus needs to be on me.

More recently I am beginning to understand how I react off my parents and them me, that I still have those fantasies in my heart that things should be different, that I need to let go of those fantasies and stop focusing so much on my FOO and start focusing on who I am and building myself up.  That I need to emotionally detach from my FOO.  I am only starting to see where I need to go however I am still fuzzy with it and I look forward to the day that it clicks and becomes clear and I lean more into detaching.  What I do know is that I will continue to be hurt by my parents unless I truly accept things as they are and truly learn to accept myself.  I can run far away and distance myself as much as I like, but they will be in my head and I will remain hurt until I deal with my own inner stuff.  So that is my latest epiphany I guess that I want to move into my stuff and not focus on them and their behaviour or actions.  They will keep doing what they have always done, my work needs to move to me.  I actually look forward to this in a way, this is something I can control and change and I feel positive about it.  I can control the way I react to other people's behaviour and I can change how I feel on the inside so hopefully it benefits me.

[Jolie40]

this is a silly one:

growing up one parent always asked "who ate the last of such & such food?"
it was a bad thing if one ate the last of a food

so I learned to never finish off a jar, last drop of milk, or last of cereal, etc
found out another sibling is the same way

[nanotech]

Yep plenty of epiphanies along the way.  I find I have a massive epiphany and then I move along until the next one and with them does come a lot of insight.  My most recent was that I thought I was getting along nicely with my healing until just recently I realised that I am really just at the beginning.  To move into healing I need to emotionally detach from my parents and learn to just be me.  A lot of what I have been doing is still very reactive with my parents, so although I understand more I am really still reacting the same to them.  I am not distancing from them because that's what I want, I am distancing from them because I can't handle it and how they treat me, but they are still there in my head.

I had a lot of epiphanies around noticing what I was actually feeling, how much anger I had inside and how that relates to feelings of low self worth which was told to me by my parents, epiphanies around patterns of behaviours in my FOO and how that plays out in the extended family as well. Also to see that my parents are not going to change and more recently that my expectations were that I wanted them to act differently ie not insult me, to make me feel better which is actually wanting them to change when in reality they aren't going to so I can only change me and that comes down to changing my inner feelings of low self worth.  That is what I actually need to heal.  The crux of it.  My focus has always been on them when really my focus needs to be on me.

More recently I am beginning to understand how I react off my parents and them me, that I still have those fantasies in my heart that things should be different, that I need to let go of those fantasies and stop focusing so much on my FOO and start focusing on who I am and building myself up.  That I need to emotionally detach from my FOO.  I am only starting to see where I need to go however I am still fuzzy with it and I look forward to the day that it clicks and becomes clear and I lean more into detaching.  What I do know is that I will continue to be hurt by my parents unless I truly accept things as they are and truly learn to accept myself.  I can run far away and distance myself as much as I like, but they will be in my head and I will remain hurt until I deal with my own inner stuff.  So that is my latest epiphany I guess that I want to move into my stuff and not focus on them and their behaviour or actions.  They will keep doing what they have always done, my work needs to move to me.  I actually look forward to this in a way, this is something I can control and change and I feel positive about it.  I can control the way I react to other people's behaviour and I can change how I feel on the inside so hopefully it benefits me.

Hilltop yes absolutely. Reading this has made me realise that despite my low to no contact, my FOO are still in my head, and yes that manifests itself in feelings of low self worth. Wow, this explains a lot. Thank you.
I'm so sorry for what you are going though. I feel you pain and also, your strength.
I never realised that I was STILL expecting them to change, but I was. You're clearly making some extremely good progress, and you're going to get there. Thanks again Xxxxxxxxx

[Hilltop]

Thanks Nanotech I am sorry you can relate and the pain you are also going through.  It is hard.  I have been watching a lot of Jerry Wise, I think you may have even recommended him in one of your posts, I could be wrong but if it was you, thank you so much.  For me it has been a game changer.  I really relate to his methods and sense a  lot of truth in it even if I haven't yet kind of got it completely, because it is a whole change in perspective.  I have ordered a couple of books he recommends to read.

this is a silly one:

growing up one parent always asked "who ate the last of such & such food?"
it was a bad thing if one ate the last of a food

so I learned to never finish off a jar, last drop of milk, or last of cereal, etc
found out another sibling is the same way

Jollie40 it's funny the stuff we have left over.  I was never allowed to talk in the car and so today if I sit in a car with someone I still sometimes go really quiet.  Over the years I have gotten use to talking more in a car but things really do stick with us.

[Liketheducks]

But now I just realised it was because I was so severely gaslighted all my life that I was totally unable to rely on my own perceptions. My reality being questioned all the time, being told things are different from what I actually saw happen, what I felt, perceived and heard... must have led me to this level of mistrust of myself. I truly believed I was unable to trust what my own damn eyes told me... And I never before put the pieces together that this was because of their abuse.

I totally identify with this.   It led to severe anxiety for me as an adult.   Just now coming to grips with that.   I thought everyone felt panicked all the time.   Paralyzing fear.     

[yarlanzey]

Recently I've been thinking that it's important to never idealize anyone - even a little bit (if that makes sense). Most of us probably know that a narcissist tends to idealize people before they attempt to knock them down.

Anyway, what if idealization is on a spectrum? Narcissists may have trained us to idealize others too. Narcissists are obsessed with hierarchy, and they always have to be on top of that hierarchy (even in the case of covert narcissism, where they may be the "extreme victim" or whatever).

Maybe the route to sanity is to have a strict sense of equality, where no one gets idealized. This way of thinking would be anathema to a narcissist. But even with "normal" people, it may be important to avoid any tendency to idealize them in any way. Or to idealize the relationship / friendship, for that matter.

[Stillirise]

I rarely post here, because I came to the forums over my updxh. However, in the course of self-work and healing from that relationship, I've had a few epiphanies about my parents along the way.  Both were the products of long-standing generational poverty in the rural south, and with F, also substance abuse and domestic violence. They, working together, became the first in their respective families to overcome poverty, and actually became what many would consider wealthy, especially where we came from.  This led to a form of survivors guilt, in a way, I suppose.  F was also unable to overcome the substance abuse, and sometimes was even verbally and physically abusive toward M, as well.  M was a classic co-dependent regarding his drinking, and the behaviors that resulted.

I now see how all of that impacted my childhood, and how it affects my M, even now.  (F passed away several years ago.)  M was so busy caretaking F, and working to make sure we were financially secure, that as a child, I often felt neglected and alone. I also felt guilty for feeling this way, knowing where my parents came from, and how hard they worked to make our family financially secure.  No wonder I ended up feeling like I had to caretake and live with my uPDxh, no matter what! That's all I saw my M do, growing up!  I also became fiercely independent, and self-reliant, which isn't all bad, but it led me to think I could fix any situation, if only I worked hard enough. Spoiler alert...I can't.

I was an excellent student, and have done well with lots of things as an adult. However, I still sometimes feel like I haven't lived up to my M's expectations, because I have not always focused on financial success at all costs.  When I got divorced, I took a financial hit.  Right now, I'm focused on being present for my kids, while working to rebuild financially. However, M sometimes makes me feel like I'm one flat tire away from abject poverty. I try to remember this comes from a place of fear in her, for the well-being myself and my children.

My latest epiphany is that now it's my place to overcome the inter-generational emotional trauma, that both parents, and I, suffered.  M may not see the value in that, but I guess that's ok.  I try to remember they were doing the best they could, with what they knew.  I'm grateful that they were able to provide for me financially, and teach me solid financial principles growing up, so that I can continue the work of healing emotionally, without the worry of how I'll afford to feed my kids, or keep my house.  I hope I can show my children a happier, healthier way forward from here.

[feralcat]

Yes. The epiphanies are never ending. I suppose that's a good thing, in that it shows an ability to reflect and change. But on the other hand it also highlights the slowness of said change and the continuous work( and it is work because they always throw up conundrums to solve. Actions that need to be done).
My most recent one is that I've had it made crystal clear , to me once again,  how little I matter in my FOO and how totally resistant they are to give me even a smidgin of support/empathy. Even though I give it to them when needed.

Four of them went to a cafe a week or so ago. Including my very pregnant N and my elderly unPdM. At the height of the current Covid outbreak, and a week before Ns baby shower (to which I was going to go). Tadaaaa....they all got Omicron. Much wailing and cold like symptoms, not nice. I texted and empathised. Comforted. They all recovered quite quickly, so that good.

However... I've had Long Covid for more than 2 years, which they know. It's pretty disabling. No support, not even a condolence re my issues. I took the opportunity to gently remind them. UnPdM said she'd forgotten, then straight back to her. My (unpd?) Sis basically ghosted me after telling me how unwell they were.
This is hard. It's a pattern that I keep ignoring . So as not to rock the boat ?

Less of an epiphany, and more like a smack in the face with a wet fish. Is that what a true epiphany is, not a lightbulb warming up, but a non ignorable phosphorus explosion that imprints on your retina ?
I've got a telephone session with my T tomorrow. I think I need to discuss with her just how damaging this pattern is to me. Will I never be able to move on without challenging/ going VVLC/ treating them like mere aquaintances ?