Feeling like I am the problem...

[Falsebalance]

So I listened to "stop caretaking the borderline narcissist," in 3 days.

I am implementing some of the suggestions and it feels very empowering.

However....it has been a difficult book to process without major feelings. My mother was diagnosed BPD histrionics and is an extremely dangerous person. I have been no contact for 10 years. I could see my childhood patterns and how and why I wound up where I am in a marriage.

When I read others posts describing a pd spouse- I get paranoid thinking "I have done that, too." I can be uptight about many things around the home because when everything I need felt out of control - I could control certain things like a laundry schedule, etc...

I am letting go of a lot and feeling my body respond positively as I breathe more and stand up for myself.

What has really upset me is how now that I'm doing some of the changes- my suspected uNPDh keeps saying "this is what I've wanted you to do all along - take care of yourself."

Which, when I confide to a friend she is saying wow he is trying and maybe you've just got some walls up. She doesn't understand love bombing. Which she is a good contact in some ways - as I think her spouse is extremely similar to mine and they found a way to make it work (but I do hear issues I don't want like the teenage son and father almost in physical fights and that each parent has a child they protect in arguments) I see these patterns though my children are much younger.  Right now I just don't know how I can accept that future. That makes me feel maybe I'm controlling or an issue.)


I wanted to share some of the things I've done within the first few days. It's mostly anticipating behavior and I guess putting a boundary down?

I did not ask - I stated I needed two hours out after he did his routine. I knew he would ask to keep my car (with car seats) and have me take his. I did not want to do this and would remain 10 minutes from home so I decided to say no. I said he could put the seats in his and he says no. It is annoying to move the seats - but he also does not want car seats cramping his style unless we are going somewhere for a trip he never wants them in his car for his work life.

I think I'm making things up in my head with over 30 years of gaslighting...

But just as I suspected he asked me to take his car instead of my new one. (Which was part of the fun for me. And I haven't left all three children with him since my youngest birth). I knew he would have taken it for a drive with the kids. I know I sound immature but I hate that to get self-care or to clean the house I get left out. I feel he purposefully does fun things when I have to do something so that I don't do it on his time and wait until he is at work.

He said but what if there is an emergency? I told him the law states throw them in and get to hospital. And that I would be right around and call and I would be right there.

He then said but what if I want to take them to eat? I said there is food here at home.
(Another tool he uses. He does not eat at home and I am an excellent and healthy cook. I am just now privy to this control tactic. I also prefer the kids to eat healthy. So also while I was out he fed them ice cream and nuggets).

Am I wrong that I wanted him to have to keep them home? It isn't relaxing for me to go do my thing knowing he is taking them out driving to avoid dealing with them. I wanted them to be able to stay home and play.

Next I left.

When I got back he said "this is what I've been asking you to do. I need you to take care of yourself."

Here is where I sound wrong - but it was just the way he said it that made me angry. Yes he often says go take care of myself but it puts me in a double bind. Take care of myself and know the children will be put in front of a television or who knows what....or make sure the kids are cared for but never get a break.
I want to share my notes on what happened next.

I am sure I missed a few details but it was a general rundown of how I shut down the talking in circles and made a clear boundary!!!

I know it may sound unreasonable and I get on my phone too but this is HOURS long of playing a bubble game (I don't have time for games on my phone) while I tend to all of the business.

I'm so tired of the double-binds

++++++++

Went out and did for myself today
Left knowing things wouldn't go the way I would do them with the kids to take care of myself

When done we had an errand I didn't mind accomplishing together - which turned into did I want to go for a drive and take the kids to a store I like

I didn't see why not. Also I want to learn about my own self and lack of boundaries and my own habits and manipulation around the moods.

I got too comfortable. We are speaking pretty honestly. (Mainly me stating things like "I don't know what the future will look like," or "Yes we were fighting then but I did xyz while you were gone,"
And Him: "we are always fighting."
And me "Yes. It's not enjoyable. And our poor children." 

There were a few hopeful moments that had me slip back into talking into the air about my day(s) during his giving silent treatment and now off fixing himself and working so many hours. I began filling him in on all he missed with the kids (I know)

Then he took us out to eat. We got stuck in traffic and it suddenly dawned on me how long he had been playing a game on his phone while I chatted away.

I turned and said "I know I can't Control you - and I don't want to. If you are on your phone I'm going to assume you've checked out and I'm going to quit speaking. I dont want to keep talking."
He said "but you love to talk."
I said "No. That's not true. I want to connect. Not talk to myself."
Him "oh." (He already knows this but acts as if it is new information).
Me: "I feel you are bored with life with us. I looked back through our family photos and you're in the background in the majority of them - on your phone."
Him: "well yes it's boring. It's boring and you're controlling with them and I like to be doing things so if I have nothing to do I get on my phone.  And yeah you control so much like with the kids and what is done I just get bored."
Me: "I don't control things - I am the one that does the necessary childcare and boring things while you check out. I don't have the liberty to check out. So of course then I develop a system because I have to cook clean feed change diapers etc..."
Him: "no like we will go for a walk let's just use this as an example and you'll say 'you know I like to go right why are you going left?"
Me: "I've never said that"
Him "yes you have."
Me: (JADE-ed why I have ever had a preference which way we walk...then realized what I was doing. "I don't want to talk about that. I want to talk about you being on your phone when we are together. If you are on your phone I don't want to hang out with you.  I value my time and I would rather be by myself than be with you while you're on your phone."
Him: "okay. That's fair. Just you control things. Like I was able to clean today and it was because you weren't around I feel like over my shoulder watching and thats how I feel and I'm just trying to talk about the way I feel that makes me act that way and why I get bored I'm just talking about my feelings.
Me: "yes. Your feelings change often and we both manipulate to try to get around your feelings.
Him: " yeah that's fair. I'm not manipulating I'm just trying to tell you how I feel or why I do that and it doesn't always come out right like what I'm trying to say verses what I mean and then you think I'm manipulating...like when i want to walk a certain way and it's like you get mad at me if i just start walking."
Me: "I don't want to talk about that. You already spend very little time around us. If you're bored in that small amount of time I would rather spend my time doing what I typically do and you can stay home and I can leave with the kids (I work from home so this isn't always possible) or you can go do things and I will respect my own time as well. If you're on your phone - I will excuse myself."
Him: "okay. That's fair."

Ended conversation and we got home.

This is during a major love-bombing phase as he realized he pushed me too far. Still in separate parts of the house and me still living as a single mother doing 98 percent of the workload.

Being able to say "I don't want to talk about that," and realizing the circular talking to get me off point was a game changer.

This was day 1 of implementation for me and it helped a LOT.

I know not to look too far ahead - but a life like this constantly on guard still doesn't seem feasible! Maybe it will become second nature to me. Maybe I was the problem and he'll begin to change too....but that feels like magical thinking. 

I read some reviews on the book that these boundaries got people discarded...I wonder if those people realize what a blessing that was...no matter how painful.

Sorry for the rambling. I'm feeling pretty low these days...but trying to keep some hope and make changes so I'm a better example.

[Falsebalance]

Also I started playing and a singing again and asked myself why I ever quit.

And I had a flashback to the last time I played a show in college. I had just started dating him then and he never would say much but I think trauma bonding it made me guess how he felt and that felt like my dad.

Anyway...friends came to the show and told me how well I did (they were original songs I wrote so I am always shy about that as it feels like reading your diary out to strangers and intimate thoughts) - friends were all in the front but he stayed in the very back. I love to sing but I don't enjoy the talking after the show. He disappeared out the back as soon as I was done and my friends came to tell me how good I did and I got away from them once polite opportunity came and went to go find him.  I asked him what he thought and he shrugged and said something about not knowing he isn't an artsy person.

I felt maybe he didn't like the intense emotions I sang about as I was processing a difficult breakup and my life with pd parents during that time.

But I never forget feeling like maybe he hated it. Not one compliment.

And then three years later after I never sang again in front of him - he told a woman she had a lovely singing voice. I was SO hurt by this. Not that I'm jealous  - I love to sing with others and have performed in many competitive choirs etc....I seek out people who can sing and especially those who sing better than me! So I wasn't upset that she had a lovely singing voice....I just realized it was because he was able to compliment her voice!
I chalked it up to so many things.

But I sing now for my kids and now I'm singing a little bit even if he is around. I'm not going to stop. It brings me so much joy.

I asked for a ukulele and he bought it for me several months ago. I feel like this is a good example of what happens.

He now will make comments and say "wow you're getting better" or "wow I could listen to that all day." But he won't compliment my singing.

He has always sang off-key but loud and does it to make people laugh. Any time I tried joining in he immediately stops singing. And then I found out its not just me - he mentioned his co-workers noted the same thing. He said we are upstaging him and it is rude to take over the song.

I said NO - We just want to join in on the fun WITH you!

Well now I want to sing again but I'm insecure after all of these years. I get irritated now seeing it. It will just have to be something I do apart from him and for myself and reconnect with others who enjoy making music.

[notrightinthehead]

Good for you! Sing away! Isn't it amazing how this book can open your eyes? You are on the path to healing.

[Falsebalance]

@nrith - thank you!  it felt much better and thank you for recommending the book!

@user - thank you for this! I went and read the post and that was extremely helpful, too. I feel so much better. I also realize that sometimes it's tiny inflections that separate PD behavior and normal quirks...as sometimes even explaining what I'm going to people will think I'm being highly critical of normal behavior.

[CagedBirdSinging]

Hi Falsebalance,
Something jumped out at me from your post. 'I need you to take care of yourself' - 'I'
Now, a loving, supportive comment would sound something like 'it's great to see you taking some time out for yourself' or 'good for you, enjoy yourself'
Compare this to:
'I need you to...'
'I've been telling you to...'
This is his way of a) subtly criticising you in a very passive aggressive way- pds love to run us nons into the ground, and then blame us for not taking better care of ourselves. AND b) putting HIS stamp of control on your self care, by giving you permission for your self care, making it seem like his idea.
You have every right to feel angry about this. Listen to those intuitive gut feelings. They will show you the truth.
(un)CBS

[falsebalance2]

Hi Falsebalance,
Something jumped out at me from your post. 'I need you to take care of yourself' - 'I'
Now, a loving, supportive comment would sound something like 'it's great to see you taking some time out for yourself' or 'good for you, enjoy yourself'
Compare this to:
'I need you to...'
'I've been telling you to...'
This is his way of a) subtly criticising you in a very passive aggressive way- pds love to run us nons into the ground, and then blame us for not taking better care of ourselves. AND b) putting HIS stamp of control on your self care, by giving you permission for your self care, making it seem like his idea.
You have every right to feel angry about this. Listen to those intuitive gut feelings. They will show you the truth.
(un)CBS

Thank You! 

I had to create a new account but I'm back.

After taking a lot of time to really analyze not only his behavior but my own responses - I am completely terrified how many times I have been nearly awake and it was as if he rocked me to sleep.

Everything has turned up since I've gone grey rock.

I have started journaling every interaction with him and it is all needling-me-to-death!

Yes it was a set-up. I need you to take care of yourself = PA put-down about how I've mismanaged my entire life.

There is SO much here.

[falsebalance2]

Feeling like adding this...

The more space I get - the more fleas I see in myself.

I have dwindled down in social skills after so many years of isolation. The only way I know to interact with people in person is the way I have had to interact with uPDh or mimic his behaviors.

In order to show affection or appreciation to others - I tease them 

And then I stress over the joke until the next time I see them and wonder if they are hurt by my joke and why couldn't I just pay them a casual compliment?! I then apologize profusely and they tell me they found it funny and not to worry.

I have a hard time trusting people aren't really hurt with  me and just saving it to dump on me later.....

Or I will over-do it and over compliment something to the point where I sound like I want something from them - and I only want connection and to show my gratitude for someone being a decent human being to me... it's too much and so akward.

I can't wait to grow past this

I expect everyone to "hit me with words." Or if they tell me "don't worry about it!" I PANIC that I've done something wrong and had better figure it out quick.  Instead of flinching at a hand coming near my face....I flinch at the wrong smile or a word spoken too soon.

I interrupt a lot - trying to make sure I haven't steered the conversation into 'unsafe' waters..... I've been "trained!"

Basically - what I am presenting myself as I bet can read like the uPD but it isn't what I want to do - I've just been in this dance so long that in order to overcome the major social anxiety I mimic my spouses behaviors sometimes - because for so many years I make friends and then once he gets to observe me with the friends he says I'm weird and acts like I embarass him. And the message I got was I was weird and unlikeable and he is so well liked....so I copy his charm and charisma and I'm smarter and can make better jokes so it works quite well - but it isn't an accurate picture of me (I prefer to be quiet and listen to others but now feel I had better perform like it is my duty to keep the room happy) and who I am and it is driving me bonkers that I feel like his presence is still with me at times when I'm trying to build myself up with others.

And I feel if I tell them hey I'm sorry if I acted strangely I am just not used to people being so nice or caring - that I will wind up a victim again or then they'll ask what my home life is like and I can't answer without feeling like I am telling private and taboo things.....OR Because of how clunky I am right now they may suspect *I* am the PD!!!



Just an observation I want to work on.  I like(d) myself many years ago. I've got my quirks and have a penchant for corny 'dad'-jokes and I can be a little naive but I am sincere...and showing up and being ME is the only way I can stop showing up as him.



I can write a thank you card and work more on manners - But I find now that I'm getting back out in person that being around my h 95 percent of my social interaction time for the past several years has garnered some pretty irritating habits!

[1footouttadefog]

I can relate.  I married young.  I did not realize u to 20years later I had climbed on to a wild carnival ride and had been I. Survival mode for all of those years and had not grown or matured and additionally had been isolated into a microcultire that is not altogether normal.

It was like I stepped on the ride and everyone had changed around me.

I felt socially awkward and when I was no longer living in the flight and fight brain chemistry of survival mode, I could then notice the world around me and pick up on social queus and such.

For me just being involved in social events that don't require any long term commitment allowed me to be "socialized".

Volunteering in the community, meetup. Com,  church, taking gardening and canning classes and things like that allowed me to I teract with people on a low stakes playing field.

[falsebalance2]

1foot - that is great advice!

Updh has commented in the past that there is something "off" about me because on vacations when I was growing up in the FOG I would make friends and after only hanging out with them for a week they became people I maintained relationships with for years (and I still miss them!) Those types of friendships where people really saw me, accepted me, and loved me! And all of the female friends I still have to this day tho long distance friendships (I've always been good with long distance as I enjoy my alone time and used to enjoy travel so it would be comfortable for me to enjoy their company over the telephone or letters and then seeing one another once or twice a year. Those connections are and were so strong.

I used to be ashamed that yes this must be an indication something was wrong....but now I see I was relaxed enough to be myself because I knew I may never see these people again and I opened up gained amazing friendships for it.

These friends often refer to me as family.

So finding some outlets to 'practice' being social again where there is limited pressure is a great idea! Thank you for that!

I married fairly young as well. 20 years....at least you woke up, right?