Narcissistic therapist

[thduda]

This is a painful thing for me to admit, but a few years ago, after an experience of severe depression I began therapy with someone who at first seemed wonderful. She love-bombed me from the beginning. I was switching careers from law to therapy and she had all the answers about how to do that. She was confident and self-assured and helped me find my way to this big switch for which I will be forever be grateful. But toward the end of our relationship I realized that she was getting supply from me, that she uses her clients to get her needs met and that she is a covert narcissist. She became too involved in my decision making over career choices and the boundaries between mentorship and professional help got blurred. I was also a part of a 6 woman group she led that was wonderful.

When she started showing her narcissistic side (disclosing information about other clients in the group that showed me that she thought they were easily manipulated and lazy) I started realizing her entitlement, and her willingness to use clients for her gain. I had to leave and she threw me under the bus at my last meeting with this group as if it were my fault that I had to leave.

Now I am having trouble trusting my new therapist and over thinking things. I worry I will be hurt again. My new career is wonderful and my relationships with my peers and supervisor are great. My relationships with my immediate family are great. (estranged from family of origin because all are narcissists.)

I guess I wondered if anyone has experienced a narcissistic therapist before. I was the scapegoat in my family. I am a people pleaser and give people the benefit of the doubt to my detriment. But I never in a million years would I have suspected that a narcissist would get into the therapy world (Unfortunately they are everywhere).

I am struggling with my emotions particularly since my husband is about to have a major surgery and anxiety is rearing it's ugly head.  I could use support, because I am overthinking my new therapist relationship because of the other therapist.  If she doesn't remember things from week to week, or has a scheduling conflict - I see it as proof that she is going to hurt me as well. I posted recently that I didn't think she understands narcissism but she has actually showed more understanding than most therapists-its just that I have a Phd in the narcissism area (not really- just studied it so much), so maybe I am too picky.

Thanks for reading and I appreciate all replies. This board is wonderful and I feel I get more support here than anywhere else.

[guitarman]

I have an uBPD/NPD sister. I have a Phd in sister studies and narcissism!

I have serious trust issues. I find it difficult to trust anyone in case they abuse me like my sister has done for decades. I don't want to feel vulnerable and be hurt ever again.

Maybe you could discuss all your concerns with your new therapist. It's not surprising that you feel the way that you do after all that you've experienced. You need to protect yourself.

You should trust your gut, not your head or your heart as they can lie to us. If you are not happy with your therapist you can change. It's OK to do that.

Positions of power attract NPD people. Abusers are all about power and control. There are some wonderful people who are mental health professionals but also others who are not so wonderful and in it for their narcissistic supply. They should never be in that profession.

The author and counsellor Kris Godinez often talks about this subject in her talks on YouTube. She specialises in Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and shows how targets of abuse can cope better.

Her YouTube channel is called "We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez". I've learnt a lot from her after watching her for years.

Practising Mindfulness meditations have helped me. I follow the Mindfulness teacher Tara Brach online. She gives regular free talks.

www.tarabrach.com


Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[thduda]

Thanks Guitarman!!! I love that you said  you have a Phd in sister studies and narcissism! I have discussed this with the new therapist. However, I keep fawning over her and reassuring her that I am okay that I trust her etc., etc.  Uhh! Then later I realize I don't yet trust her yet.

I think my anxiety level is super high right now. My husband is having a two day back surgery next week that involves multiple plates and screws to correct a curvature and that is got me not sleeping and just overthinking!

I appreciate your support. I love Kris Godinez too and listen to her all the time!

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi jdcooper,

I agree with Guitarman.

I got burned by a therapist once, and it took me about a year to open up to the next one. Don't feel bad that you are slow to trust now. The trust will come more slowly with the new therapist, and you can remind yourself, that is ok, it is temporary that you are in that stage of high anxiety. Within a few months you'll probably have a better feel for who she is, and you'll have more 'data' on how she operates and if it is a fit for you.

Personally I think that knowing you have a 'phd' in narcissism should be respected by the therapist you end up working with. I've come to realize that WE (family members who got Out of the FOG) are the ones who have spent the most time with narcissism . No matter how much funding a research project ever got, the professional researchers (psychologists, etc...) would never log the 'hours and hours' we have with PDs. We really are the ones with the lived experiences after hours and hours and hours and hours of 'data' and so yes, you do have a 'phd in narcissism'  in that you have more insider knowledge than anyone who has merely studied the topic from afar, could ever have.

It is not unreasonable at all to want a therapist that respects that you not only lived through a lot of PD abuse, you learned about it, and you understand it really well. It is very possible that you have studied more about narcissism than many therapists have. I've met with so many over the years and not all of them are that well versed in narc abuse (you would think they would want to be given how common it is).

Hopefully your new therapist will show a lot of green flags and your anxiety will subside as you see signs they are trustworthy.

Trees

[NarcKiddo]

I'm not surprised narcs find their way into the therapy field. Guitarman has pointed out they love power and control. My uNPD mother pooh poohs therapy but she absolutely adores being the neighbourhood agony aunt. She has a way of getting people to confide in her (and she then gleefully tells the family and selected friends all about their problems).

I have not done very much therapy but in my experience it has largely been about the therapist guiding me towards my own conclusions as to what will work best for me. So to some extent it might not matter (to me) if the therapist had narc tendencies AS LONG AS they were not abusing me. I realise that sounds a bit odd, but in the example of your first therapist it was clear she was abusing everyone in the group. That's so not OK it's off the scale. However, I can see a situation where I could discuss my problems with a therapist and as long as they were not talking about me behind my back (in ways I could be identified - professionals do need to discuss case-studies) or stringing me along to get more money out of me or doing anything else that made me uncomfortable then I might not bother to concern myself about whether the therapist might or might not have narc tendencies.

You, however, have directly been damaged by a narc therapist. You have told your new therapist about this. I hope she was suitably horrified. I also think you are making a mistake by reassuring her (I know it is hard not to!). My suggestion would be to have an open and honest conversation along the lines of "Hey, therapist, you know I had an abusive therapist prior to you. And you know that I have said I trust you. Well, I have to tell you that while I don't distrust you, I have not yet known you for long enough to actually trust you. I mean no disrespect but I don't think you can help me if you don't know what the true situation is. I am trying to address my trust issues by deciding to trust you as much as I can but you need to be aware I am super-sensitive right now. It has been very difficult for me to admit this to you because my history of abuse by narcissists means that I tend to tell people what I think they want to hear. I hope we can continue to work together and that my trust will deepen as we go along."

If the therapist has narc tendencies she may get very uppity - and then you will know to stop working with her. But she may be very understanding and glad you were open with her and that, to me, would be a very good sign.

I hope your husband's surgery goes well.

[guitarman]

There are "experts by experience" and "experts by training".

I have a lot of experience of narcissistic abuse. Experts by training, such as therapists and counsellors etc, may have acquired a lot of knowledge but may not have experienced the decades of direct abuse and know how it actually feels to have been abused for a long time and experienced all the trauma.

There are people who have experienced abuse who may also train to become mental health professionals.

[square]

How does the T react to your fawning?

[Starboard Song]

I am overthinking my new therapist relationship because of the other therapist.

You have to trust your own answer here. But let's get away from magic: you are very experienced in narcissism. You know that narcissists have patterns that can be spotted early and often. So make some lists for your private use.

• Things a narcissist will always do
• Things a narcissist will never do
• Things a narcissist loves to do
• Things a narcissist avoids, or is very bad at

These are gross generalizations, of course. Always and Never, never apply because they are always too confident. But for your personal use they are good tool.

So it's OK. Rate your therapist against this. You can spot a narcissist coming from a mile away. If this T lines up too well with your pragmatic definition, move on. Otherwise, recognize this: narcissistic personality disorder is rare by definition. We needn't be vigilant for it. Our vigilance comes from our history with PDs. While it is not foolish or embarrassing for us to adopt this vigilance, I believe it is a mistake. We can be aware of these patterns without wearing ourselves out in analysis and fear. True personality disorders are rare. The other people are just various degrees of plain old imperfect humans.

So much good fortune to you.

[thduda]

NarcKiddo-thanks for your comment about telling the truth to my new therapist! She was horrified by old therapist and said "she really did a number on you" and it really brought up some of your childhood stuff" Very appropriate responses.

Treesgrowslowly My new therapist has said things like you are enlightened and seems to respect my knowledge of narcissism - no red flags there.

I think the trust thing is just my little self afraid of getting hurt again.  I sat with this for awhile yesterday and that was the only thing that made sense.

Heightened anxiety is really messing with my head.

Starboard Song Thanks for your logic-and good thoughts..makes sense not to be overvigilant.

Square-I have only seen this therapist 5 times and she has been supportive about not trusting her - said 'you may be a little like a bulldog right now (protective of myself)

As I sit here and reflect on all of your wonderful comments I feel much better. So glad to have all of your support. It means so much! Thanks.

[1footouttadefog]

As with our pd partners, we should not diagnose and dont even need to to decide it's not a match for us.

Your therapist could be tue best therapist on the planet and have an exceedingly excellent CV/Resume and if you dont feel right about them it's not a match and it's your right to move on.

Therapy in many cases requires a type of intimacy, and trust.  In the same way you might not feel a romantic connection. woth someone despite them logically being a good candidate, any given therapist might not be right for you either.

Trust you instinct, therapy is about you, you and you, Not the therapist.  Totally the opposite of a relationship with a PD, lol.  You do not have to meet in the middle or take them into consideration in the selection, they work for you or they dont.  You get to choose.  It's your call, regardless.

I hope you find a therapy situation that works for you, even if it does turn out to be this one after all.  We support your choice.