inevitable visit with MIL/control issues

[bee well]

Some of what I am about to write is new, some is a continuation of an ongoing saga.

These past months Dh and I decided to put our own best interests at heart and have put off visiting MIL for quite some time now.

Unfortunately we cannot postpone any longer. I am gearing up for the visit, and the toxicity that will likely ensue.

DH and I plan on maintaining  boundaries as best as we can, but that's difficult as we will be guests in her house.

We have not booked a hotel because the fallout from that would be worse than tolerating MIL for the duration of our stay.

NC is not an option. I don't go every time but the visits are inevitabile.

What makes it nerve wracking for me is I never know which version of MIL we are going to get. Sometimes she is "nice." Everything depends on how she wakes up each day.

One thing that remains constant is that differences are not tolerated and she gets very passive aggressive, sometimes openly aggressive, when things do not go the way she sees fit.

As I have written here in the past, food, and illness are two of MIL's control mechanisms.

I have to watch my diet, and have health issues she doesn't know about. She also has health issues, complains frequently, but from what I see she contributes to it by not taking care of herself. She is also a busyholic who rarely slows down, even when she is sick.

So running up to the visit she tells me her allergies are better but she can hardly eat and her stomach hurts (she is waiting on test results for multiple issues.) During phone calls she alternates between telling me about the foods she can't eat and then and talking about all the delicious rich food she prepares for herself and the family. There appears to be a contradiction here.

Not so long ago during a phone call we were talking about the upcoming visit, and how her garden has been doing.  I make a big mistake and suggest we have some vegetables from her garden during the visit. She tells me they aren't ready because there has been little rain so there won't be any vegetables to prepare (Has she heard of the supermarket?), and complains about watering the garden.

I then ask her to prepare a simple dish that she makes well (without vegetables, thinking that would solve the problem. Mistake, never make unnecessary requests with my MIL- Also what was I thinking, that I could solve a problem?)  I get an "Ahumphe, we'll see." I see myself fawning here about her cooking. Cringe!

In another part of the conversation I start talking about the weather and then say I am not sure about what clothes to bring...(another mistake). I get cut off mid sentence and she starts railing in a loud rude voice about "don't bring anything up here all the stuff you brought last time went moldy, nobody eats it" (She is referring to specialty items from our area that we have gifted her regularly in the past. She has also bought these things for herself when visiting us. No comment.)

I get reactive, raise my voice, and blurt out "MIL, hey, I wasn't talking about food, I was just talking about... (the weather and what to wear)"
She cuts me off mid sentence, starts yelling at the dog, then comes back into our conversation and pretends like nothing transpired.

Fast forward: hubby is there already and I am preparing to leave in the next days.

DH calls, tells me MIL is tired  and isn't eating much. Hel also says it is like a mini hospital up there with everyone's health issues.(FIL has his own health problems.) He also tells me about MIL's plans for us, which are mostly based around activities that involve eating rich foods . One of these is a dinner at her home where she will serve a Winter dish, part of which I know has been in her freezer for months, as she has told me this. And oh yes, there is hot weather in the forecast as well... DH adds that MIL might prepare what I asked for in the phone call, but towards the end of the visit. (Frankly I could care less what she prepares, as long as she doesn't pressure me to eat it.)

Another planned activity is a visit to a restaurant in a location she likes, again, one that serves very rich food. This also involves a nearly two hour car drive each way. Lord help us! 

Variations of the same are planned for the rest of the visit.

I can predict with a fair amount of certainly that throughout this MIL will be complaining about how sick she is, can't eat, but will aggressively insist that we do. Sometimes she complains, makes a half portion order at a restaurant, then proceeds to eat off her husband's plate, and also insists that we all share food. She behaves similarly at home. Alternatively,  at times she refuses to eat more than two bites or so, and pouts.

She also gets agitated because she things everyone must take a nap after lunch because she does, and not only at home. Once  we were coming back from the restaurant where we will be going this time and she wanted, like really wanted,  to pull over on the side of the road so "we could all take a nap."  DH derailed that idea, fortunately.

(It appears that she believes, somewhere in the back of her head, we are this "huge undifferentiated ego mass/blob" I have heard Jerry Wise talk about in some of his videos. She maintains, through her words and actions, that we all must think and do what she does, even if that depends on what her mood is at any particular time.)

At the end of our visit she will inevitably insist that we go home with (sometimes old) food that she wants to gift us, or food she has raised (which being truthful is sometimes quite good), because, what we buy where we live "isn't genuine." In recent years we have mostly managed to avoid this, but there are times when we have taken it,  eaten what is good and disposed of the rest. ( I told my DH this time on no uncertain terms is she going to send us home with meat in an ice box. Yes, she tries to do that too. AND, get this, we travel to her place on public transportation.) This sounds awful but if she sends us home with something old it's a win win for her—she gets to unload food she would have had to throw away, and gets credit for her generosity and thriftiness. She is fixated on not wasting anything.)

Sooooo, knowing I cannot control her I have decided to stand my ground, eat moderate portions of what she prepares, go out and get what I need when possibile, and also order and eat accordingly at restaurants...

There is also the issue of supplements and medicine. A while ago MIL's doctor suggested she start supplementing. She then threw away the vitamins the doctor told her to take because they made her stomach hurt. Now she has decided that vitamins are useless, and a waste of money. She says one should get vitamins from food. (That's true, but some of us take supplements for personal needs. Me, for example.) She doesn't know about my health issues (not going to to give her that uN supply, we know where that will go) and since she has gone on about the supplements now I am considering hiding the ones I take along with my medicine so she won't latch on to the subject. As once that happens, it will come up again and again. And again.

Catch 22: she has gone through my suitcase in a prior visit, so it's hard to hide things. DH says she won't do it again (yeah, right)  because I stood up to her about the incident. I can't do anything about the suitcase so I am thinking about how to strategically pack my hand bag as she only has access to my stuff when DH and I go out of the house without her. (I can monitor the handbag more easily than the suitcase.)

I'm thinking, WTF, do I have to take my hand bag into the shower too?

Then there is the constant gossip and talk about who is sick and dying, judgments about the smallest of our choices, emasculating FIL, and complaints about how BIL "never" talks to them, and how we "never" come up there and we don't call her relatives frequently enough. All this to the backdrop of constant TV news and drasticizing.  And the "obligatory" trip to the cemetery. (Then she wonders why we don't visit more often?)

Fortunately DH has learned not to leave me alone with her, so there's that. (He now sets the alarm so she can't "get to me" in the morning...I am an early riser so I  wait for him to wake up...

The absurdity of it all. As write and I read back on this it seems more and more ridiculous...It's as if there is an infantile adult who is infantilizing her family. It's dysfunctional. Is is just me who thinks this?

What's my part in this? I was blind to this for many years. I have fawned and let her run over me in the past. That genie is out of the bottle. As I can't change MIL all I can do is work my best with what I know now and my approach (boundaries, grey rock, self care, avoid talking about just about everything including food, fend off the false guilt, etc.) Unfortunately I haven't yet fully mastered the art of talking about nothing. Still trying.

As I mentally prepare I tell myself the visit is only temporary, hope we will get the "good" version of her and thank the stars we live far away  from this lady.

In closing, congratulations if you got this to the end of this: you have a good stomach (no pun intended). Thank you for reading.

[NarcKiddo]

Ugh. So much of this has some familiarity for me.

I suggest you buy a lock for your suitcase and then you can keep your supplements, medications and a secret stash of food you can eat locked safely away.

Hugs. I hope it goes as well as it can.

[bee well]

Thanks for the support, Narc Kiddo. Sorry to hear you are familiar with similar scenarios.

The lock is a good idea. I have already bought some protein bars to take with me. :-) I was thinking along the lines of putting a note inside the suitcase that says "See, I knew you would look...gotcha!"  Just kidding :=)...As you can see from my "lengthy" post I had a lot to get off my chest. I'm glad I did it before the visit. I'm grateful for this forum.

[Sneezy]

Oh this brings back memories of visiting my in-laws.  I never knew which version of uHMIL I'd get to see.  She could be funny and fun to be with or she could be in a foul mood, ready to fight about everything.  As she got older, she also added in a reclusive mood, where she would stay in her bedroom for most of the day.  Luckily, she didn't go through my suitcase (that would really tick me off!).  I learned to bring food with us.  I'd bring my own coffee, granola bars, nuts, and other snacks.  Eventually, DH and I just set a rule that we would borrow a car and go to the grocery store immediately upon arriving.  We'd blame it on our kids (you know how kids are, will only eat certain things, etc.). 

The rich food would also drive me crazy.  I can't eat rich food, especially in the evenings - it gives me terrible nightmares.  Maybe you could pretend to be ill and skip the two-hour drive to the restaurant and then order yourself some healthy takeout?  Good luck!

[Cat of the Canals]

Ugh this sounds like a nightmare. Dysfunctional is right.

Two things have helped me when dealing with my PDmil visits. The first is practically memorizing the "Medium Chill" responses in the Toolbox: https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/medium-chill

The second is going into "scientist" mode. I imagine myself in a lab coat with a clipboard in my hand, and I observe. PDmil starts complaining, and in my head I say to myself, "Interesting... the subject is now complaining." and I pretend to scribble it on the clipboard. It helps you keep an emotional distance and not get dragged in.

Oh, make that three things. During the most recent visit, I learned that silence really is golden. At one point, MIL was ranting and guilt-tripping us about something completely silly. We were in the car so we couldn't get away. My husband and I each took turns trying to deflect, but it was doing no good. So we both went silent. Just let her bluster on all by herself, but something funny happened... she only lasted another five or ten seconds before she realized we weren't rising to the bait anymore and that shut her up better than anything ever has. I think she might have had a realization that she sounded a bit crazy ranting into the ether.

So if at any point you realize, "This is an absurd conversation, and we are getting no where..." try saying nothing. It's funny how often they burn out on their own when you stop providing fuel to the fire.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yes definitely a lock! And maybe an alarm. If there's an issue with that, you've proved its necessity.

I too remember being hungry visiting family. They were all VERY food focused and it was often easier to just not eat than to deal with it. I understand about how the main event of the day is a rich meal.

Making a request of her about making a certain dish seems to me a golden opportunity to withhold something from you. I'm often cynical, so maybe not, but it's a hypothesis for the scientist to test.

No worries about blowing off steam here. Sometimes just writing it all out helps me to validate my own feelings, and be able to get to calm, although I certainly appreciate the perspectives here too!

[bee well]

Hi All,

Thank you! I appreciate the validation. Sometimes I start thinking maybe I am making too much of it, but she really is over the top. (I think perhaps turning it back on to myself is some strange inner critic mechanism. I'm working on understanding the myriad of ways that can work.)

I want the best for MIL as she is my DH's Mother, but it's hard to be compassionate when she starts up with her antics. With that in mind,  I need to remind myself not to shame myself for not being compassionate enough.

The dimensions of my  original post also remind me that I need to keep working on this, and to understand where this is coming from, as she (an external force) clearly has an effect on me, and there's nothing I can do to change or predict her actions by 100%.

Call Me Cordelia,

I'm considering getting a suitcase with a combination lock on it. If only I could find one with an alarm! 

it's definitely better to be a little hungry than to eat something that makes us feel badly.

It's interesting you should bring up withholding. That's a likely hypothesis.  And all of this is like a science experiment. I have noticed that she does that, but it's very subtle and would be hard to explain. Two examples though, would be with food, and also places where we want to go (getting us revved up to go one place and then suddenly changing her mind). Mental note to be mindful of this. Understanding the dynamics makes the situation more manageable.

Cat of the Canals,

I will re-read the medium chill before I leave...I think I will need that for when she gets pushy...She seems to respond well to yellowrocking (I think that's what Ramani called it). Not sure if any of you have heard of it, but it's gray rock with a cheery voice. She ias sensitive to tone of voice. One more thing to think of- ugh!

Again, I like the idea of viewing it as a science experiment, because that's what it seems like. Here on the forum, we talk a lot about ways to deflect and diffuse the toxicity, what works and what doesn't. That's science.

And yes. silence! Fewer words means less stimulation, less engagement...

Sneezy,

The two versions of MIL thing, for me, can be destabilizing. Just when we get used to mean, crabby version, anticipating drama, she switches to generous, funny, almost agreeable. With what I have been reading here I can see it's intermittent reinforcement. DH and I have talked about this and have agreed to be aware of this...He's been up there for a while now so we'll see how that is going for him.

We will have access to a car while we are there. We usually take our trips to the store and sometimes out in the evening after ILs go to bed. ML doesn't seem to like that we go out an buy things (seriously?) but we do it anyway. Just since I found out about the suitcase I realized she goes in and snoops to see what we bring home. (I put two and two together about some comments she had made.)

Seriously thinking about feigning illness but then she would be upset about not going, then stay home with, and "smother mother"/tend to me.
Double bind.

It's almost funny to think a person could to need to take notes before visiting IL family. (except it's not fun) Someone could do a comedy sketch on that. If someone would have told me before I got married that I would be taking notes on how to approach MIL, I would have laughed.

Thanks again for all the feedback. I really appreciate the help.

Have a good weekend, everybody.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hey Bee Well,

I hope the trip is going ok, though I am sure it is taxing to be there with your disordered MIL.

What you describe is a lot of disordered thinking and behaviour on her part. She can't actually listen to you, she is all about the negativity - where anything you say, is turned into a complaint of hers...and so on.

I think you are nailing it in terms of seeing things accurately. It is hard when we have partners who still want to visit parents after so many years of this, but a lot of people still keep their aging parents in their lives, even when the parent is not capable of any sort of healthy relating.

I learned the hard way that with a MIL, we DIL's are just along for the ride. And as you noticed, anything we say, anything at all, can be twisted so that we are either going to feel bad for them, or get criticized in some way by them. There is no win-win with these disordered people!

Keep reminding yourself that these visits are not that frequent, and in the pie chart of life, they (thankfully) take up a very thin slice of your overall time each year (from what it sounds like).

Doesn't sound like your MIL ever grew up. These are the behaviours we would work hard to correct if we saw them in a 4 year old child. The self-absorbed, critical, mean-spirited, and boundary crossing ways you describe are exhausting to deal with.

Having your suitcase contents examined is such a clear sign this person has terrible boundaries.

I think you are facing this all like a champ.

Trees

[bloomie]

bee well - thinking you may be in the thick of the visit already, but wanted to chime in and say: BRAVO!! You are your DH are seeing things more clearly and using tools and strategies to attempt to stay in some kind of connection with your mil.

Something that hit close to my own experiences that you mention is;

The two versions of MIL thing, for me, can be destabilizing. Just when we get used to mean, crabby version, anticipating drama, she switches to generous, funny, almost agreeable. With what I have been reading here I can see it's intermittent reinforcement. DH and I have talked about this and have agreed to be aware of this...He's been up there for a while now so we'll see how that is going for him.

I have noted the same thing in myself. We expect that others will have a reasonable range of moods and habits and ways of living (and eating) that are not compatible with our own, but when the laser focus is on us and we are living for a time in close proximity with someone who we cannot count on to be reasonably consistent in their behaviors toward us, who is domineering and intrusive, who tacitly and directly demands compliance, who is intolerant of our differences, it is intense and, yes, destabilizing.

What's my part in this? I was blind to this for many years. I have fawned and let her run over me in the past. That genie is out of the bottle. As I can't change MIL all I can do is work my best with what I know now and my approach (boundaries, grey rock, self care, avoid talking about just about everything including food, fend off the false guilt, etc.) Unfortunately I haven't yet fully mastered the art of talking about nothing. Still trying.

I fawned over in laws in the early days as well. I allowed the relationship to begin on a foundation of compliance. I was incredibly intimidated and was groomed in my FOO to submit, serve, keep the peace at my own expense, allow disrespect and pretty mind blowing (in retrospect) boundary busting comments and behaviors toward me, my FOC, my home, my life - belongings and such as you describe with your mil digging through your private things.

Redrawing the lines - which you and your DH are doing, attempting to move the needle of the relationship to one of health and mutual respect. We have done the same with very mixed results and a great deal of painful push back. Make no mistake, this is hard.

A couple of things that are simple and have helped me... I have a pretty good toolset of mannerly behaviors which I realized I wasn't always making the best use of. When I stepped back and refused to allow my own mil's PA or outright aggressive behaviors to move me into freeze mode I could use those tools.

Eg... mil offers you some rich food you cannot eat... "I will have to pass this time, but you know what I would love... a cup of tea. Shall I make some for the two of us to share?"

Mil is going another round on a family member or friend... gossip, smears, ugly, you refuse to engage, wait a beat and then... "excuse me, I have an urgent message to answer..." then get up and leave the room and don't come back.

My own mil seems determined to drop hurtful things I would never otherwise know into my lap...

Like maybe a family member didn't attend an important event in our lives because they would rather not be bothered, but have declined to me with grace. So, I have no idea they had nothing else planned that day and with glee mil will share that kind of thing with me. OUCH on all levels, right?

A phrase that has helped me a lot in situations like that is: "That may be true, but..."

"That may be true, but I know they love us and have no idea why you would share that with me."

I think I had to deconstruct the notion that using kindly, firm, polite tools I would use with any difficult person I encountered was not mean, disrespectful, hurtful, and rude.

Getting used to being uncomfortable when we set boundaries - tacitly or directly, is part of how we grow and mature into the fullness of who we are meant to be. It is also, I have found, how we uncover just how much contact we can have with someone who causes this much angst.

With my own mil I have found that when I respond in firm kindness she backs down and off almost always. She still tries to push in at times, but I hold firm and use my tools. She and I have extremely limited contact because I am no longer the family chief maid, chauffeur, nurse, hostess with the mostest. And with another family member, they could not adjust to the relational reset and we are weddings and funerals only contact. And... that's okay, too.

You and your DH have got this! And we are here for it!!!! Cheering you on from the other side of this screen!

[bee well]

Hi All,

We survived the visit! It wasn't exactly enjoyable, but in some ways productive. We are so happy to be home.

During the time at MIL's place I thought of the stories in the forum and what you all wrote to me. It helped to get through the ugliness. It also helped me to not feel alone in all of this. Thanks so so much to all of you for the support.

Bloomie, thank you. I have just read your response and I appreciate it. This really resonates:

"We expect that others will have a reasonable range of moods and habits and ways of living (and eating) that are not compatible with our own, but when the laser focus is on us and we are living for a time in close proximity with someone who we cannot count on to be reasonably consistent in their behaviors toward us, who is domineering and intrusive, who tacitly and directly demands compliance, who is intolerant of our differences, it is intense and, yes, destabilizing."

That is exactly the situation! It's mind boggling how disordered individuals can take the smallest of things, or the most natural of functions, and use them to create tension and chaos. Mealtime, for example, would ideally be a time to share food and good company rather than a tension filled power struggle....

To get through this "situation" we used some tools that were suggested in the replies, including medium chill. There are also some new phrases in your post, Bloomie, that I will put in my toolbox for next time.

These two, in particular:
"... mil offers you some rich food you cannot eat... "I will have to pass this time, but you know what I would love... a cup of tea. Shall I make some for the two of us to share?" and "That may be true but..."

You are spot on about the grooming by FOO. I thought about this while travelling and did some spontaneous grieving. The other passengers seemed curious about why I was crying but I let it flow. That really helped. It reinforced the fact that a great deal of the work to do surrounding MIL is also FOO/me work.

As was suggested by some of you, I went as more of an observer than a participant, and that helped immensely.

Here are just some of the notes from my "clipboard:"

MIL was at her worst. All of what I described in the original post and then some, happened.

The first day MIL appeared to be spaced out, at death's door, was waifing, complaining about her breath. FIL seemed to be competing for airtime about his health concerns but didn't have much luck with that.

After all that previous talk about her garden not producing yet, and "no vegetables," MIL made a point of hobbling me out to the garden, almost immediately. Some things were naturally not ready at this time of the season, but there was a lot of produce, ready to harvest.

Then she enlisted me to help her make vegetables (to add insult to injury). Told me to prepare them how I liked, then criticized how I did it. Also criticized were the way I keep my plants at home, and different things about the way I manage the household. The usual drill.

The rich food and the old leftover stuff from MILs freezer was there as predicted, but this time in miniscule portions, since "she couldn't eat a thing." So portions weren't a problem. But had she had more of an appetite she would have been trying to heap loads of food on our plate. Still, while not eating, she persisted in offering what was there.

In spite of the lack of appetite, (and currently being on medication) MIL had no problem repeatedly filling her glass with the "drink" of her choice. After DH pointed this out she filled the last glass with half water, scowled, and said, "See, it's half water." Okayyyyyyy!

After Dh refused seconds she tried to put food from her plate onto  his, and he stopped her, told her not to do it ever again. (As an aside, the lack of hygiene in general was concerning, especially in the context of the pandemic. We did well to postpone our visits.)

We were still hungry when the IL's went to bed so we went out for a late second dinner and a talk about what had just happened...

All of this weird yoyo-ing about doling out food supports Call Me Cordelia's hypothesis about withholding. Not sure how to wrap my head around it, or exactly what the dynamic is, but there is something very weird going on there. And the contradictions are confusing. At best they take up mental bandwidth. (Is there anyone reading who knows how to put a name to this?)

Miraculously, on day two, MIL seemed to have come back from death's door, was on the move and full of p@ss and vinegar, as the old saying goes. For the rest of the visit she alternated baiting, bullying, criticizing, and giving orders.

During our road trip MIL made a point of looking for a store to buy the things she had told/berated me not to bring up there "because they would go moldy." Again, no comment.

When we got home MIL started emasculating and bullying FIL. We got up and went in the other room without saying anything.

At another point she was doing the same thing and I said "I'm not sure I understand what you are talking about." FIL replied "It's best you don't." My phrase appeared to work because it fizzled from there. Mental note to save that one...

The next day DH and I went to the market and ran into MIL's best friend. DH opened up and talked about MIL's behaviour and illness. The friend validated him and said MIL behaves in the same way when he is not around. Still, the best friend seemed extremely worried which led me to think she is being gaslit. (She recognizes the bad behaviour but doesn't see the contradictions, and feels sorry for MIL)

There was also talk about a party that was held in our honor quite some time ago. The friend told us MIL had said that everyone at the party had said how ugly the friend's dress was and how ridiculous the friend looked (which is a lie, it was unique and we loved it...To me it sounds like mean girls at high school, and MIL is in her '70s...) This is just one of many examples over the years where we have seen MIL diminishing her friend. We put all of this together and now acknowledge that that this is not just "unpleasantness", or "meanness" but that MIL is also emotionally abusing her best friend. UGHHH!!!!

Time will tell if the friend is a flying monkey (she's quite loyal, and likely trauma bonded to MIL). Fingers crossed, because MIL's friend has always been kind and considerate in our presence, in spite of being a bit overly loquacious. DH isn't concerned, though, about MIL finding out what was said. I say it's 50/50 she is a flying monkey.

When we came back from the market I noticed some of the things I had left in the guest room were folded differently. Confirmation that MIL is still snooping. No surprise there. (I chose not to put a lock on suitcase this time as I had a feeling it might trigger her, and I knew she already had her hackles up. Still considering the option of a combination locked suitcase for the future. There were no comments about my health as she  did not have the occasion to get into my handbag and see my medicine. )

Perhaps the worst thing had happened before I arrived. DH told me that MIL had said to him, "You don't have the character to be (insert DH's profession here)" This not only was heartbreaking to hear but also totally untrue. Even if it were true it is an incredibly cruel thing to say. Fortunately DH appears to have the self esteem not to to let it crack him. (And/or he is conditioned to the abuse). I know it hurts him though.  I'm still reeling from this comment but don't want to put too much emphasis on it. DH has enough salt in his wounds as it is.

The last night we had a dinner and DH's  ex-boss, and best friend were there. It was the only time "nice" MIL "came out" to impress. Here I saw the mask slip.

MIL made the mistake of saying to ex-boss "So, do you have the aggressive quality that it takes to exercise X profession?" Ex-boss smiles and replied "What is aggression? I think aggression is a sign of incompetence." (Ouch! I could see MIL shrink a little bit...)

Then DH started to bring up MIL's comment about his lack of character. MIL stepped in to do damage control and said, "Well I don't think my Son has the verbal skills to do that job, but I am content with the job he is in now. ( As opposed to before we moved away, Double F YOU!!! Twisting your words and throwing in a backhanded compliment) Ex-boss, again, defended DH. I love him for that.

It went on like that throughout the visit. Lots of "hit and run" and "tag, you're it." We were able to deflect a lot of it but inevitably, when we slipped and shared our opinions, or let our guard down, that caused problems.

The day we left, waify MIL returned, crying about how she would be alone and her house was emptying.( Yet at the same time she had it in her to shoo the dog away when I was giving him some love)....

And, in the only moment during the visit MIL got me alone, before we left she called me back to give me something I had forgotten. As she put the object in my hand, she grabbed at a button on my pants with the other hand and said, "Oh, that's a button.!" (And not a speck of dirt, as she likes to find spots on peoples' clothing.) I froze and said, "Yes, it's a button." Then, too surprised to protest  the violation of my physical boundary, I turned around and left.

When we we got home MIL called as we were walking in the door. (I was worried about you, , yada yada, more guilting).

Dh can take the next "scheduled" phone call, I am done for a while.

The entire experience was saddening and angering. I feel especially bad for DH and the abuse has suffered. I'm also proud of him for coming through it all with a capacity for kindness and empathy, unlike his M. MIL is miserable, but her behaviour makes it impossible, actually unhealthy in my opinion, to feel sorry for her.

DH and I, as Bloomie suggested, have been groomed by our FOOs and have been minimizing this behaviour for years. I think now that there was a time for both of us after we grew up and left our respective homes and abuse amnesia and the fantasy family bond kicked in. There's no other way I can explain it, other than the fact that there is a common "belief" that parents should be revered (given a free pass essentially) as they age, regardless of how they have behaved in the past. I respect MIL's humanity, know that she is not "all bad", but that's it. No reverence here.

At the beginning of this post I said that the visit was in some ways a success. That's because we have decided to accept, like really accept,  that all of this is beyond our control, and that we want to channel the anger into a healthy fight response (i.e. motivation to enforce boundaries and take care of ourselves).

It was also the first time we were able to get through a visit without MIL causing any friction between DH and I. I hope we are able to follow this trend consistently, and remain a united front over the bumps in the road.

The realization of the depth of MIL's problems is a bit frightening, even we are obviously adults and capable of protecting ourselves.

I am in no position to diagnose anyone but I see a lot of "traits of" that I had previously attributed to MIL just being a sometimes negative, rude person, etc., but with a "good" core. Labels are not important but on the other hand, identifying patterns in behaviour helps to reinforce that we are not exaggerating.

My observations also appear to confirm that MIL does quite a bit of acting, which makes it hard to offer support for her legitimate health concerns. Sadly, while we will be there in times of need, it is necessary to not reward the bad behaviour with unconditional warmth and concern. Constant medium chill, while I find it to be in some ways aspirational, is the aim here (not as good at this yet as a lot of you on here)....

That's about it for now (as if it weren't enough)  ).







I

[moglow]

Glad to see you came through with sanity intact and joined together with your DH! Having that confirmation and support must be amazing for him, I bet he stuffed down a lot for many years.

I'll admit, I'm a big ole meanie when it comes to some things and would do what I can to catch her digging in my suitcases. And I'd make it clear when caught red handed: "Is there something I can get for you? Was there something in particular you needed from my suitcase?" Let her scramble for an explanation while I stood there waiting. Yes it's confrontational, but also [to me] necessary. It may be a room in her house but that doesn't make it acceptable to flat out snoop - that's just plain rude.

[bee well]

Thanks Moglow.

You are not a meanie at all. To describe MIL's behavior as rude is polite on your part. Last time, in a prior visit, she did it and  I confronted her, and stood my ground. She had gone in there to show her friend a gift I had put away. Her excuse, "You are like my daughter there are no excuses in this house."

I had no proof and let her get away with it this time. I know that's not the best coping mechanism but that's how I decided to deal with it this time.
DH appreciates the validation. I'm afraid  he has a whole lot of sadness stuffed down.

We are doing our best to keep our heads up and focused on what we have going on at home.

[moglow]

She had gone in there to show her friend a gift I had put away. Her excuse, "You are like my daughter there are no excuses in this house."

Uh huh. Then she should have asked YOU to show it to the friend, and she knew it. It ain't her first rodeo and she has convenient response, designed to cast aspersions on whoever catches her. I'd set her ass up - carry along a selection of toys or raunchy dvds next time!! Have fun with it and maybe put truly random objects in there, make her wonder. Compete with DH, who can be the most outrageous. You are welcome. 


We all do our best with what we have, sis. That doesn't make hers okay but I'm really glad neither you nor DH are in it alone.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Bee well

Very glad you are home in one piece!

From the outside looking in, wow, yes I can say I've seen a lot of these same behaviours in my disordered relatives. What you describe is someone who is checking a lot of boxes for a PD. It so good that you saw her behaviours clearly.

I remember when I realized there was no authenticity to my PD abusers attempts at anything "pro social" and that their capacity to relate to anyone in an emotionally safe way is basically nil. Once you see the person's patterns are persistent, it gives clarity but also it means there is no longer hope that this relationship can improve.

The fact that she went into waif mode on the first and last day of your visit suggests that she has a very very under-developed sense of self. I say that because when you look at all of her behaviours, taken together you can see how dependent she is on attention from others. Going into waif mode is her way of trying to control other people's emotions. It is manipulative. She probably has no idea what it is like to be able to process things the way you or I do. For her she's stuck in an immature state (which is sad) but she is also abusive which means the (healthier) people around her just go into self protection mode. Its pointless to put yourself in a position where she will just cause more hurt.

Sounds like there was more than one occasion where she showed a complete lack of concern for other people's feelings and boundaries. No one is going to unlearn that stuff  in old age, unless they really want to. Sounds like she doubles down constantly, on repeating her same sad treatment of you all, and the best friend (who sounds FOGgy to me).

I think the contradictory behaviours you saw with food have the effect of gaslighting the people around her. She herself probably could never explain why she behaves like this. To her this is the only way to relate to others. And then you describe verbal and emotional abuse that is familiar to a lot of us here with PD relatives. It's all so sad.

Do you feel like there has been a new level of clarity for you now that you put this all together? You were able to accurately predict a lot of how she would exert control especially with food.

I am glad you didn't feel alone during the trip. It is so very sad how many of us have such disordered older relatives now. But at least we are not alone in our process to live apart from their damaging ways. Even when we visit we can keep ourselves sane, like you did!

Healthy relationships will remain out of reach for her. It has nothing to do with you. There's really nothing else we can do except work to understand ourselves so that we know how we want to handle such people in our lives.

I think for those of us who want healthy relationships so badly, it is understandable to grieve for the relationship that can never be... with disordered people who are not in treatment or going to ever be in treatment. I am glad you are here in this community!!

Trees

[bee well]

Hi Trees,

Thank you. I really appreciate your input.

I'm sorry that you have experienced these types of behaviors from relatives. The realizations you describe are truly difficult.

I do have a new level of clarity since the visit. I must admit there is also an underlying sense of worry even if I know that will not change the situation in any way.

What you wrote here is something that aligns with some thoughts I have been having recently:

"The fact that she went into waif mode on the first and last day of your visit suggests that she has a very very under-developed sense of self. I say that because when you look at all of her behaviours, taken together you can see how dependent she is on attention from others. Going into waif mode is her way of trying to control other people's emotions. It is manipulative. She probably has no idea what it is like to be able to process things the way you or I do. For her she's stuck in an immature state (which is sad) but she is also abusive which means the (healthier) people around her just go into self protection mode. Its pointless to put yourself in a position where she will just cause more hurt."

That is what it is: a very very under-developed sense of self. MIL presents as an angry child who did not get her needs met. (Her back story supports this. She had a very difficult childhood. I don't know all of the dynamics, but enough to know it would have been harsh for any child.)
She hasn't ever processed this, and with a persistent and total lack of insight she has little to no chance of doing that.

The need for attention in itself is not a problem. We all need attention. It's the maladaptive, abusive ways in which she tries to maintain and control it.

In her needy, angry state, MIL pushes us away and so it has the opposite of the intended effect, leaving her in what likely feels like abandonment. Compounding this is the fact that DH is no longer under her wing, and in what I see as a scarcity mentality, MIL behaves as if there isn't enough of DH, or anything else for that matter, to go around.

MIL doesn't think there is anything wrong with her behavior. She repeatedly states it's other people who are the problem. Family, friends, x group of people. You name it. 

I don't think all of the behaviour is intentional in the sense that it is attached to a way of being. But I do observe what appears to be a need to punish others for projected "defects".

And it is very sad.

Knowing what I know now, if she weren't DH's mother I would be NC faster than you could say "Boo." NC is not an option for DH at this time so I will do as much as reasonably possible to help him with the load.

I am anticipating some neediness as there is a heat wave coming on, and it will be uncomfortable for many seniors.  We agreed DH is going to field this, I know MIL will take it personally if she doesn't hear from me in a while but so be it. There are other things in life that need attention besides MIL.

For example, dealing with my own FOO history there is the matter of rebuilding trust and friendship. As you know, it's complicated.

Again, it's sad that so many spend their adult lives in such a painful state after having started it in such stark conditions. (Even when those conditions no longer exist!) But, as those of us here often point out, that's not a justification for abusive behavior. and we are not born with an obligation to fix other people's problems, no matter how close they are to us, or what their "role" is.


From reading your posts I perceive that you have a lot of recovery under your belt. Certainly, you have a great deal of insight. I hope you celebrate that.

I'm glad to be in this community too.

Bee