Article "Chronic shame"

[treesgrowslowly]

Found this article that articulates some of the really helpful ideas I've had to learn around shame. Ideas I am still working on learning and using to help myself heal.

https://www.rewriting-the-rules.com/self/chronic-shame/

From the article:

"Telling our stories to safe-enough others can be extremely valuable in this way, although certainly we should be careful to develop trusting and mutual relationships for this to happen in. Sharing stories is also another way to get the kind of connection that we often struggle with when we hide parts of ourselves due to shame."

This is a long article, but I would say, definitely worth the time if you are looking for a good explanation of how shame plays such a role in our functioning as adults.

This last while, I've woken up to a new level of awareness of what I need to recover - how the codependent search for 'safe others' led to burnout, and how much better I feel lately when I choose my social events very carefully. Gone are the days of 3-4 meet-ups or social events in a week. I got to a point where I just got exhausted, searching for 'safe others' that are few and far between. Few people will ever want to know who we are - most people will only ever see what we can do for them. I am tired.

I am wanting to live without so much shame.

And I think that this is because I would rather practice feeling grounded in myself, than work to emotionally attune with others in real time - most socializing is with acquaintances, people who don't know my story at all. I attune myself around them (not a bad thing per se) but it feels like a flashback to the pretending I did in my 20s. There is a lot of shame in the emotional energy from other people, and I am just not interested in co-regulating right now, just to create harmony for my time with them. Those days seem to be over. Wondering if some others can relate.

What I hope develops instead, over the next few years, is a sincere grounded self, so that I will not feel so pulled in the direction of shame - which as a child of narcissists, is going to be an ongoing process.

I still feel ashamed of the 'level' I'm at - and being around people I don't know very well, creates anxiety that I will be 'found out'. I want to get some freedom from that someday! I've had key people in my life, who I desperately wanted to be 'safe others' just repeat the shame spiral instead. Still healing from that....it is awful to be shamed as an adult, for being the child of a narcissist. There is a lot of shaming going on in the world.

I'm going to be re-reading this article a few times for sure. Some great insights about how shame affected our emotional development. Looking forward to hearing if others found something in it useful!

Trees

[bee well]

Thank you for posting this very useful article.

There's so much there, I hardly know where to start.

Here are a few thoughts:

First, Meg-John Barker wrote, "When something comes up which is beyond these tactics, we probably experience shame as utter fragmentation or disintegration or ourselves. It feels like we are totally falling apart, and we are utterly desperate for anything to get rid of it. Shame is related to self-loathing, to the emotion of disgust aimed at ourselves, and to having a vicious and noisy inner critic, but it is fundamentally non-verbal and visceral: what Silvan Tomkins calls a 'sickness of the soul' "

In the above quote Meg-John Barker gets right to the point at why shame is so hard to tackle, and why it takes so much time. She describes it as described as  "utter fragmentation or disintegration or ourselves. In my words: it is intense fright coupled with loneliness and and a hesitancy or inability to ask for help (frozenness), often followed by a desire for flight, fight, or fawning.

The author quotes De Young, and says that when people are shamed they " 'feel blank, "vaporized" or incoherent, even to themselves. In moments of feeling humiliated, they can't speak, or even think. They feel shattered, or as if they are falling apart.' "

Which brings me to the next point: in the article there is also a discussion of the eyes, or "the look" as Pete Walker describes it.

I will relate it to a personal example:

I have trouble talking to doctors. I get the feeling described above, coupled with an intimidation by "the look." Sometimes my mind goes blank and I walk out of there not having asked all of the questions I had wanted to ask. (I write them down. sometimes that helps, sometimes it annoys the doctors). I think in the doctors office I am getting the same feeling I had when, as a child, I was intimidated and shamed by narcissists giving me "the look."

While many doctors do have "the look" (and sadly, more than a few are Narcs), currently I am working on remembering that in many cases  the look is not directed at me. The doctor might be worried or tired something else. So I think it's important for us to discern when someone just has a look on their face, or if they are narcissistically directing their look at us. In my example with the doctors, I am also working on defending my interests and not feeling shamed for questioning doctors' advice. (Endless gratitude to all of the doctors who help us and give precious time and advice, and unfortunately, in many cases to the point of exhaustion. To those who shame their patients, not so much.)

In any case, the shaming "look" can be a powerful, even dangerous tool of intimidation in all relational contexts. As we re-parent ourselves, many of us may need to remind ourselves that we have the power to protect ourselves from people who are giving us "the look." (We can take the look as a red flag to pay attention for other behaviour, rather than a threat in itself.)

Are there any of you who have grappled with discerning or deflecting "the look?"                 

Trees, you wrote,"This last while, I've woken up to a new level of awareness of what I need to recover - how the codependent search for 'safe others' led to burnout, and how much better I feel lately when I choose my social events very carefully. Gone are the days of 3-4 meet-ups or social events in a week. I got to a point where I just got exhausted, searching for 'safe others' that are few and far between. Few people will ever want to know who we are - most people will only ever see what we can do for them. I am tired."

I would like to commend you for channeling a lot of strength and making quite some effort to find "safe enough others."  Relating and keeping yourself safe, as a person who has been narcissistically abused, can be very tiring!

It's good when we take that tired feeling as a signal to focus on our needs, and not what some might thing we need to be out doing or not doing. (So many times people advise  "get out more..." or just "slow down and rest." Sheesh, which is it here? There's that old "not good enough" critic raising it's ugly head) Choosing fewer events can have the benefit or allowing us time to savor, or reflect on the ones we do have.

You  wrote:

"And I think that this is because I would rather practice feeling grounded in myself, than work to emotionally attune with others in real time - most socializing is with acquaintances, people who don't know my story at all. I attune myself around them (not a bad thing per se) but it feels like a flashback to the pretending I did in my 20s. There is a lot of shame in the emotional energy from other people, and I am just not interested in co-regulating right now, just to create harmony for my time with them. "

In another thread Hatties reminded us to "trust the gut." You have learned quite a bit since your 20's and it sounds to me like you are listening to your gut.

You say "I would rather practice feeling grounded in myself." That's a good space to be in, and a healthy antidote to shame. That's something to  celebrate!

So yes, on this end, I can totally relate to your preference to " practice feeling grounded in myself." I want to focus more on doing it alone so then it will be easier when I am in company.

I have been learning not to shame myself because I like to be alone.  At the same time I still want to have friends and recognize that it's important to take risks...Learning to be ok with ambivalence about the whole thing.....

You point out that "is going to be an ongoing process..." Thanks for emphasizing the importance of patience, which at times get lost in all of this.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Bee well,

Thanks for writing this out!

You asked about whether others have dealt with deflecting 'the look' as discussed in the article. I didn't really pick up on that when I first read the article!

The article talks about how a person might gaze at us, and their gaze (facial responsiveness) doesn't match what the child / person is feeling.

Wow. Yes, what a valuable point. The article goes on to say that this makes us feel objectified.

Like you said, in the present time, as an adult who has been through narc abuse, if our doctor for example, looks at us in a way where their gaze doesn't match up with what we are expressing, we can end up re-experiencing some of these triggers. You made great points - that we have to remind ourselves the doctor (or other stranger) may be tired, having a bad day, and they may not be trying to shame us at all.

Honestly, I know that I endured this gaze a lot as a child. The adults would stare blankly at me, while I searched their face for concern - for interest - for anything!

You wrote about how you are working on not shaming yourself for wanting time alone. I think that time in solitude is an important ingredient for a good life, and a healthy practice of self care!

Those of us who come from enmeshed families probably got messaging around how 'selfish' it was for us to enjoy our day (without including the narcs). Into my 20s, I know I was questioned / challenged / interrogated as to why I felt entitled to a weekend to do what I wanted (which was mostly, to rest and enjoy my alone time). Yikes!

For me, these sorts of articles - especially ones about shame - are very helpful because it explains what has been going on all around me, that everyone pretended wasn't going on (gaslighting). These sorts of articles shine a light on a dark corner.

As you wrote, you'd like to practice feeling grounded in yourself when you are alone, so that it is easier to do when you are with company. I am finding that it is getting easier and easier to identify the sorts of behaviours in others that I want to move towards vs. move away from in healthy ways.

I can appreciate what you wrote there for sure. I know that for years, I would be out with company, and my gut would be telling me that I'm tired, it's time to go home and have some solitude to recharge, but I would not know how to listen to that gut feeling.

I would be out with company, and after a while, I would have these sensations of "oh I really want to be back at home reading a book and resting" but I didn't know that this is what healthy self -care looked like. I really thought there was something wrong with me for wishing I was back at home after a few hours of socializing.

Now I know better! I can hear that gut feeling and take it seriously now, instead of ignoring it!

Do others find that too? That you have gut feelings when you are out with company, that you used to ignore as well? Just curious if that is something others have worked on too.

Trees

[bee well]

Hi Trees,

Thanks for sharing your experience and observations.

Yes, the gaze does make us feel objectified. As children, when we need healthy connections, that feeling can be overwheming some of us carry it around for a very long time. Being mindful about my perceptions and then discerning what has to do with now vs. what I am carrying around from the past has really helped me with this.

It's really difficult in situations where there isn't much time to reflect or even to express myself (like during doctor's visits, where they are usually pressed for time and in a hurry to get through a line of patients.) Sometimes I feel selfish for taking "too much" of the doctor's time. (Of course that is nonsense, we have the right to ask questions, even if that means taking up a some time).

You wrote:
"Those of us who come from enmeshed families probably got messaging around how 'selfish' it was for us to enjoy our day (without including the narcs)."

Oh yes, that's how it is in my FOO. Just to give an example: A long time ago there was one member of my FOO who had some problems (which from what I know are linked to abandonment/emotional abuse issues, and who knows what else). This family member went out and got help. What happened? Gossip went 'round that they were whiny and selfish for not being happy, and complaining (having emotional needs) since they had everything they could ask for growing up. Money, a nice house, food and clothes. They were shamed for having any needs that went beyond the material. The uNs also went so far as to snicker about their mental health. At the same time they would criticize the abandonment type behaviour of this person's caretaker. Gaslighting at it's finest!

What you wrote here also resonates: "for years, I would be out with company, and my gut would be telling me that I'm tired, it's time to go home and have some solitude to recharge, but I would not know how to listen to that gut feeling.

I would be out with company, and after a while, I would have these sensations of "oh I really want to be back at home reading a book and resting but I didn't know that this is what healthy self -care looked like. I really thought there was something wrong with me for wishing I was back at home after a few hours of socializing...Now I know better! I can hear that gut feeling and take it seriously now, instead of ignoring it!"

I can relate to that feeling. I have treated myself poorly by staying in situations where I didn't want to be, just because I wanted to please..[people], and had a hard time saying no. (This includes some Doctor's offices.)

Knowing better, connecting with and listening to the gut is so so important for healing. There is nothing wrong with us for wanting to take care of ourselves! People who tell us different do not have our best interests at heart.

Currently I am working on this with DH. If he wants to do something I think about my needs and choices. For example:1)  I can be a little tired and choose to accompany DH out of solidarity, also aware of the energy that is required to do so. BUT I ask myself "how much energy do I have?  Might I be pushing myself too far? (If the answer to the last one is yes, then it's time for me to bow out.)

2) Being ok with going out alone when DH doesn't want to come with. We aren't joined at the hip and he has the right to stay home and rest, just as I do.  If he doesn't come with that has nothing to do with me. And it's not selfish to want to go out and enjoy myself with out his company.

3) When we are out together It's ok for one of us to go home (I'm glad you brought that up, about going home.) We have recently decided to make sure both of us has a set of keys on us in case one gets tired and decided to go home...

Back to the issue of shame: I think this is at the core of what many of us here are working on healing. The Critic is the voice of shame.

There's so much about this that could be said...I have a feeling some of us will be working on this for many many years

Thanks again for posting the article. Understanding the dynamics of shame can help us  to silence Inner and Outer Critic attacks as we continue our life-long journey to healing and wellness.

[Hattie]

I wasn't expecting to see myself being quoted when I opened this thread... thanks guys

On a related note, I've read the book by Pat DeYoung that the article is based on. It was great, very eye opening and an interesting take on chronic shame. I would recommend it.

[bee well]

Hi Hattie, Thanks for the book recommendation.  I will put it on the list! :=)