Hi

[TakeMeHigher]

Hello

I am joining because I need support to get though my current situation. I have been married for over 15 years. I believe my wife is a vulnerable or covert narcissist.  I just started therepy and my therapist was pretty clear after one visit that I am in a super toxic relationship. I have married a woman who is emotionally cold towards me unless I behave as expected. I essentially married someone just like my mom and so all the odd behaviors are normal to me.  I feel like i should have seen it. 

She can't seem to feel empathy.  The signs were there. Always. She hurt me to the point I was ready to end it all and then she said "don't worry I'm not going to leave you". I literally had to explain that she had it backwards. I always noticed after a big fight she was always perfect. Like the ideal wife that is kind, caring, and compassionate. But those fade. Sometimes the niceness lasts a few weeks, more often just a day.

The confusion in my head is painful. I keep going back and forth between living caring wife and abusive narcissist. It is not easy to accept it. I have no friends or family to talk to. She is an angel in their eyes. I just wish others would just once see what I see.

The idea of her being a narcissist send me into a panic. Was there cheating, etc.  I struggle to focus on the fact it doesn't matter. I don't have to have proof for me to have valid feelings. And if I am unhappy I need to do something about it.  I am tired for apologizing when my feelings upset her.

Still together, working with a therapist to better understand the situation and myself so that I can make a smart decision.

[TakeMeHigher]

Thank you

I keep thinking I must be the crazy one and then back to it's not me. I have taken at least a dozen narcissist personality tests to see if I am really the narcissist. They all say I'm not.

The toughest thing for me is the question my therapist asked. I don't know if it was intended to be this big of a question. She asked "what are you getting out of this relationship". I still can't answer and feel like I am the problem for not being able to see what she does for me. Everyone loves her. There is no way anyone that knows us jointly would believe how she can behave in private.  Her projected image is perfect. 

My biggest recent regret is telling her my feelings before realizing something isn't right. I just know she will use my words against me. I told her before that I felt paranoid about something and then now when I question things I'm just being paranoid. "Those are your words not mine". She had me convinced I had paranoid personality disorder or borderline pd.



Are you sure I'm not going crazy and making this all up in my head?  Would be an easier explanation to swallow.  It feels like such a deep unbelievable nightmare. I keep thinking it's not real and hoping I will wake up.  It's like I woke up and the sky is green and the trees are blue.  Can't be real can it? 

Denial?

[SonofThunder]

Thank you

I keep thinking I must be the crazy one and then back to it's not me. I have taken at least a dozen narcissist personality tests to see if I am really the narcissist. They all say I'm not.

The toughest thing for me is the question my therapist asked. I don't know if it was intended to be this big of a question. She asked "what are you getting out of this relationship". I still can't answer and feel like I am the problem for not being able to see what she does for me. Everyone loves her. There is no way anyone that knows us jointly would believe how she can behave in private.  Her projected image is perfect. 

My biggest recent regret is telling her my feelings before realizing something isn't right. I just know she will use my words against me. I told her before that I felt paranoid about something and then now when I question things I'm just being paranoid. "Those are your words not mine". She had me convinced I had paranoid personality disorder or borderline pd.



Are you sure I'm not going crazy and making this all up in my head?  Would be an easier explanation to swallow.  It feels like such a deep unbelievable nightmare. I keep thinking it's not real and hoping I will wake up.  It's like I woke up and the sky is green and the trees are blue.  Can't be real can it? 

Denial?

TakeMeHigher,

You wrote: 

"Are you sure I'm not going crazy and making this all up in my head?  Would be an easier explanation to swallow.  It feels like such a deep unbelievable nightmare. I keep thinking it's not real and hoping I will wake up.  It's like I woke up and the sky is green and the trees are blue.  Can't be real can it? ".

I can well remember my educational 'ah-ha moment'. That light bulb came on, all my experiences aligned and the fog caused by PD manipulation cleared.  Go easy on yourself in this new awareness, and keep learning. Instead of mentally wondering why it was not clear before (PD's are highly skilled in keeping us in the fog), instead i recommend you rejoice that the time to take your life back using privacy and continued education has arrived!! 😃👍.  Yes, alerting a PD to your new findings can make things very-very difficult as they use it as fuel for some creative twisting and manipulation. 

Yes, a very real living foggy nightmare. But, now that the lights are on, and your fog is lifting. Its time to begin daydreaming about a much more self-controlled future for yourself, powered by the toolbox!  As user already well stated, the toolbox tab is a place to educate and practice.  He also mentioned Dr Ramani on YouTube.  You can watch YouTube without a recorded watch/search history in incognito mode by turning on that mode (need to do each time for each watching session).  I want to recommend this series from her, which will align with terms/traits here on Out of the FOG.

Dr Ramani's series: The Glossary of Narcissistic Relationships. 
Its going to feel like Dr Ramani's been hiding out, observing all your experiences.  Enjoy being well validated by a professional!  Cheers to you! 

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3QtnfcMTMhEfRXN-Kk2vndn89nBZxKUj

SoT

[TakeMeHigher]

I started watching the videos by Dr ramani and I am blown away. As she described examples I can remember specific events from not only my marriage, but childhood.

Don't watch them when your PD is around because you may burst into uncontrollable tears when it hits home. Oddly enough it doesn't feel like sad tears.

I am starting to be able to answer "how did I get here".

[SonofThunder]

I started watching the videos by Dr ramani and I am blown away. As she described examples I can remember specific events from not only my marriage, but childhood.

Don't watch them when your PD is around because you may burst into uncontrollable tears when it hits home. Oddly enough it doesn't feel like sad tears.

I am starting to be able to answer "how did I get here".

TakeMeHigher,

I am glad to read you are coming into an awakening and awareness.  I recommend you be gentle on yourself; graciously kind to yourself and not critical of yourself.  I like to think back to the decades when i was in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt), both in my family of origin years, my college years and my marital decades, as being inside the high walls of a cult compound.  The high walls were too tall to see out and heavily guarded by skilled manipulators who not only made sure the walls were very tall but also in practiced, pristine maintenance. 

I was conditioned as a child to accept that inside the PD cult-walls experiences were normal and expected and then experience-emulating training by a masterful, patient, kind caretaker mother who lived inside the camp with me.  When i left that camp for college, i had a rebellious time indeed, but held onto life inside the camp in my mind, as my normalized experiences in childhood.  Then I chose a spouse based on my past experiences, my skillset, my traits (both nature and nurture) , my camp training.  Once the walls were again raised high in a normalizing condition, i was inside a similar camp once again.

When i had my educational awareness period and my ah-ha moments, the lightbulb came on, the fog cleared and I could now understand that my cult-compound experiences were NOT normal and that i was being used to feed and serve needers.  Problem was, is that I was still living inside the camp and so i decided to begin slowly conditioning the PD's in my life to a new norm for me and it became increasingly more difficult as I broke the once normalized and expected camp rules.  My years here at Out of the FOG began as it helped validate my new education. 

I want to recommend that you continue to watch the Ramani videos in private, and also second the idea that you read the Fjelstad book asap.  Its surprisingly an eye opener to learning about yourself and how your good traits are capitalized and manipulated by PD people, so that you go beyond healthy balance, have no/few boundaries, and slowly become a person who tries to make for peaceful living in the compound. But, the PD cult-camp and the PD director maintenance, just gets more demanding all the time. No matter how hard you utilize your good traits for peace, the camp leader stays steps ahead and the compliance to-do list gets longer and more complex. 

That book may be another ah-ha moment for you and helps you realize your role in keeping the cult-compound walls and the camp director in their pristine condition.  Again, you are not alone.  Be kind and gentle on yourself and your past; as you could not see through or over the walls.  You are among others here in many different stages of a journey.  Imo, your privacy in your education and awareness is crucial to your forward progress.  Best wishes for continued awareness. 

SoT

[Amy-Rose]

  I'm new here as well. I also recommend Dr Ramani and she really strengthened out my thinking and I wasn't even watching her for that reason. It was just a late night youtube meander. Never knew I'd been dealing with someone a bit toxic. But I also recommend Petra Van Dejil on youtube. All the best and stay strong!