5 Signs You’re In A Dangerous Trauma Bond With A Toxic Person

[guitarman]

5 Signs You're In A Dangerous Trauma Bond With A Toxic Person

https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2018/04/5-signs-youre-in-a-destructive-trauma-bond-with-a-toxic-person/

[Boat Babe]

That was me in my first, and most dangerous, relationship with a sadistic narcissist. *shudders

[bee well]

Thanks, guitarman. This articles you post are really helpful.

Knowing about trauma bonds makes it so much easier (and its never easy) to get out and stay out when we have this information.

Now that I am away from my abusers it's clearer that a lot of what I thought was "love" in my family and in some relationships, was actually trauma bonding.  For years I wondered why it was so hard for me to leave in spite of the abuse and a great deal of it was just this.

Sometimes, fortunately less frequently as time passes, I get caught up in (conflicting) positive feelings about my abusers. Remembering the trauma bond helps to come back and stay grounded. Thanks again for posting.

[treesgrowslowly]

Thanks Guitarman for that link.

Learning about trauma bonds was an important lesson for me on the road to healing. As children of narc parents we had no real option for what to do with the family situation we were born into. We had to bond to survive.

This article goes over similar ground, and references what bee well is sharing - that we have those confusing memories where sometimes the narc parents were good to us. This is an 'expected' feature of the parent child trauma bond - the parent was good at intermittent rewards with their children.

In my case - it became more obvious the older I got - the "nice" gestures were part of the overall attempts to control me. The "good" times tended to happen during times where I was asserting myself. Giving me some gift or toy I wanted, was a way of controlling my thoughts - confusing me (in case I started to catch on to their narcissistic personality). They certainly didn't want me to develop enough critical thinking skills to see them for who they were. So if I started to show signs that I was thinking and asserting myself, they would start to be 'nice' for a time. To keep me close. These are the manipulations that work within a trauma bond.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/lifetime-connections/202105/breaking-the-trauma-bond-forged-narcissistic-parents#:~:text=A%20trauma%20bond%20is%20the,their%20ego%20and%20narcissistic%20needs.


Healing for me has involved learning to re-frame those memories. When I have flashbacks to times where I felt heard or understood by my narc parent, I remind myself that they were not reliable in any of this behaviour. They might respond to me well in one moment, and become rageful the next. That was 100% true.

Yes, they sometimes bought me things that I really enjoyed as a child - but the only thing they did consistently was run from 'hot to cold' ("nice to mean" in a child's language).

I learned to understand that during my childhood, they were not thinking about my needs.

They had good moods, not good intentions.

It can be really hard to explain to someone who has not lived it- what it is like to have an entire childhood revolve around "what mood is mom in today?". But those of us who lived it, know the pain of living inside that trauma bond.

In my case, there is ample evidence that they didn't care about protecting me or keeping me safe - key responsibilities for all good parents. Their 'good days' were just that. Good days.

I practiced reminding myself of the reality of their behaviours, and as bee well said, over time the conflicting feelings about them lessened as I learned to see what was going on for me as a child.

As a child, I had no way of understanding their behaviour outside of the "nice vs. mean" construct of a small child. Until the executive functioning comes online through the development of our pre-frontal cortex (in adolescence), as children we really had no other way of understanding (cognitively) why our parents were "sometimes nice and sometimes mean".

Given that many adults struggle to understand what to do with a narc in their midst, it should help those of us who were raised by one, to forgive ourselves for not knowing what to do to get out of the trauma bond when we were not even adults yet. We were just kids, trying to survive.

Learning about the trauma bond has been so helpful.

Thanks Guitarman for the article!

Trees

[guitarman]

Thank you for your feedback and responses. I'm glad that you found the article helpful.

[bee well]

Hi All,

Trees, thanks for adding an article, and sharing some of your experiences. I would like to share some of mine.

It's interesting that you mention the gifts, or positive attention that contribute to the trauma bonds.  I can think back to many moments as a child when these gifts and intermittent positive reinforcement were used as a distraction (to placate or babysit/get me out of "their" hair) Or they gave attention when they wanted company or someone to amuse them. I think these gifts were also a way to assuage their guilt (if they even had any) for abusing their child.

A silver lining is that in my case I did develop some interests and hobbies that still bring me joy. But alas, that is not the point. Our uN/uPD Caretakers and in many cases extended family, were not attending to our needs. There is no toy, book, or gift that can substitute the for attention that we needed to form healthy attachments.

I also began to have trouble when I started to think for myself. As long as I didn't need anything it was ok, later, not so much. This has been true across the board, for all the family members older than me, and the ones close to my age too: as long as I didn't ask for anything and had no mind of my own, I was "ok" and not a threat (or at least not completely excluded). When I got "too big for my britches" the trouble started.

Later, as an older adult, I  had problems with the head uNarcs when I started to offer opinions of my own, or defend myself from putdowns and slights. When I went NC I didn't know what narcissism was, but I knew that I was ok as long as I was always cheerful, always agreed, always defended the uN family, they would be nice to me. They could make mistakes and have different opinions, and that was common. That wasn't allowed for me because now I see, I wasn't ever a part of their group. I was one of their scapegoats. Sometimes I feel like a fool for thinking that I had ever belonged, even if I know I am not a fool by any means.

When the straw that broke the camel's back arrived, the discard had already started...now I see that the family had become increasingly hostile to me, but I had been ignoring the red flags. This was especially hurtful as they were unable (or didn't want to) recognize the improvements or accomplishments I had in my life, and in some cases mocked them (And I can't even put that down to a more vs. less envy---these were people who would be conventionally seen as much more successful than me.) When I left I was reminded of "how much they had done for me."

Where the trauma bond came in for me as well is that in spite of the mistreatment and covert abuse, I focussed on, and believed that because they were nice to me sometimes, and gave me an occasional gift, that they were there for me. (Empathy, a shoulder to cry on, never. In their group any feelings beyond pride and joy, and difficulty of any kind, are considered weaknesses in my FOO). I learned the hard way this was not true. And even as an adult I was seeing things in that childlike nice/mean framework that Trees talks about. Now I think about the mean vs. nice and it amazes me how a child's mind will protect itself, because there's no amount of nice that can make up for the mean that many of us were subjected to.

Sadly, and also fortunately, we now have the task of bridging those thinking gaps, ar arrested developments, as Pete Walker puts it. I don't know about the rest of you, but in spite of the flashbacks, getting away from the uN FOO was a quantum leap towards bridging these gaps, even with a lifetime of recovery work that lies ahead.

What Trees wrote here also resonates:

"Healing for me has involved learning to re-frame those memories. When I have flashbacks to times where I felt heard or understood by my narc parent, I remind myself that they were not reliable in any of this behaviour. They might respond to me well in one moment, and become rageful the next. That was 100% true.

Yes, they sometimes bought me things that I really enjoyed as a child - but the only thing they did consistently was run from 'hot to cold' ("nice to mean" in a child's language).

I learned to understand that during my childhood, they were not thinking about my needs.

They had good moods, not good intentions.

It can be really hard to explain to someone who has not lived it- what it is like to have an entire childhood revolve around "what mood is mom in today?". But those of us who lived it, know the pain of living inside that trauma bond."

I agree. That last part is so true, about having to twist around what mood (or condition) they were in at any given time. I can see now that is not healthy or normal in any way and a caretaker who puts us in those conditions is definitely not loving us, no matter what they told us. I couldn't see this because I was also groomed to not talk to "outsiders", and other children, and later adults  I knew were in similar situations.

For me all of this resulted in my becoming a person who considered just about everyone else's needs but my own.

Once we go NC and start healing, getting the family out of our heads seeing things as they really were. It's hard and the pain never seems to end. But I as I read somewhere "the only way out is through" it. As Degges-White states it is very difficult to untangle because the uN family considered us to be their property. And we were groomed to believe it.

I think so many of us have much of the same in our stories.

[treesgrowslowly]

Bee well,

I love this post you shared. Thank you!

You are not a fool by any stretch of the imagination! Children can be scapegoated for many years before we are old enough to realize what is going on. There are no 5 year olds who are like "hey I'm being scapegoated here, time to move out!". I'm paraphrasing that from books and articles /posts i've read by people who point out these things about the narc parent. Pete Walker, Gabor Mate and others who point out that as children, and even as teens, and even into our 20's, we didn't have the capacity to identify and address narc abuse the way an adult can. The way we eventually did as adults ourselves.

I agree with you, a lot of us have the same stories. And something else that is a theme with different people who talk about recovery, is the fact that a child of narc parents, will outgrow their own parents, (emotionally) pretty early on in life. So the reactions we got were not random - we were demonstrating behaviours that activated their projections. When we found ways to assert ourselves, we were doing something they themselves, didn't know how to do.  At least that is what makes sense to me as an explanation for what we went through.

I mean, if you are this normally developing kid, and as you grow up you assert yourself, which is healthy and totally normal, then emotionally immature adults are not going to 'take kindly' to any of it. Looking back now, like you, I can see how my own development, caused "problems". The older I got, the more I could think critically, and assert thoughtful beliefs - my own beliefs, not theirs.

I look back now, and I know that there's no room for any of that when you're in a dysfunctional family with trauma bonds instead of healthy attachments.

Bee well, I also believed my FOO was there for me, well into my adult years. I also had to learn the hard way, that they were not there for me. The last couple of years before I went NC, I kept asking them to show up for me, in a real way. Their reactions were amazing. The term "blatant disregard" for my need for support at that time in my life comes to mind. Their capacity for neglect would shock most people who have not seen such behaviours out of family members. I remember finally realizing it was pointless, and I went through a period of shock when I realized I was related to so many uncaring a-holes!

The fact that we didn't belong there, becomes more validating to me the more I reflect on it. To belong with those people, we would have had to have those traits. We would have had to live by causing drama in the same ways they did. The only way to fit in to that sort of group, is to share their same approach to life. Not worth it!

You wrote about the hostility towards you. My heart goes out to you, knowing what that discard feels like.

If the flying monkeys we left behind wanted to change, they could. I mean, if they wanted you in their life in a healthy way, they could have learned how to create a path for that to happen. 

Instead, as is common for many of us here, the narcs and the flying monkeys in our FOO doubled down on their status quo.

Instead of supporting you in your healthy behaviours (think critically, have boundaries, seek joy) they did the opposite of support. They actively worked against your efforts to free yourself from narc abuse and its effects.

I think this is the ugly truth of narcissism. Not only can they not live in a healthy way, they actively disrupt the people around them who want to live in a healthy way. I've met narcs who can't even be around healthy behaviours without mocking it. Its like dude, if you can't say something nice, how about not saying anything at all? But they are in this state where they cause damage. They cause damage to themselves and others, and can't or won't see it.

I can't imagine having an ability to enjoy watching others suffer. It's just not in me. Thankfully, I don't think it is in most humans. I can't imagine living without a conscience that kicks in and I can't imagine lacking empathy for others. I can't imagine being so damaged that I root for a family member to fail at recovering from their crappy childhood. I just can't get into their shoes, no matter how long I keep thinking about narcissism, I can't relate to it. I cannot imagine treating people the way narcs treat people.

Like the list in the article Guitarman posted, trauma bonds are dangerous, but are they destructive to the narcissists? Or to the non-narcissists? What is destroyed? Is the narcissism ever under threat of destruction? From my years on this forum, I would say no. Narcissists remain narcissistic, and some people argue that actually over time they get better and better at what they do best (practice makes perfect).

Healing from trauma bonds is hard work.

I think this is why bitterness is such a red flag for me with people. If I find out someone has bitterness that they hold on to, I know it is just a matter of time before they criticize me for doing something that supports my wellness or healing. From that bitter place, it seems to me, that they can't encourage (or even respect), the work that other people are doing to heal. Staying out of new trauma bonds feels very important to me these days.

Trees

[bee well]

Thanks for your solidariety and validation, Trees. I appreciate what you have written here. I just wanted to comment on this:

"...I also believed my FOO was there for me, well into my adult years. I also had to learn the hard way, that they were not there for me. The last couple of years before I went NC, I kept asking them to show up for me, in a real way. Their reactions were amazing. The term "blatant disregard" for my need for support at that time in my life comes to mind. Their capacity for neglect would shock most people who have not seen such behaviours out of family members. I remember finally realizing it was pointless, and I went through a period of shock when I realized I was related to so many uncaring a-holes!"

Yeah, it's pretty shocking, It can feel so naive (as opposed to the callous and calculating behaviour on the part of some individuals in our families) to realize how much of ourselves we had given to these "uncaring a-holes."

(Kris Godinez calls people like these "jackwagons" and "mothercluckers!" And I would add, "dillweeds!" Ha! Not to make light of a serious situation but a little humor sometimes isn't such a bad thing.)

Then you wrote:

"The fact that we didn't belong there, becomes more validating to me the more I reflect on it. To belong with those people, we would have had to have those traits. We would have had to live by causing drama in the same ways they did. The only way to fit in to that sort of group, is to share their same approach to life. Not worth it!"

As we are essentially  saying here in this forum: Nope, that's not our tribe. No way are we going for that! Not gonna do it!

"I think this is the ugly truth of narcissism. Not only can they not live in a healthy way, they actively disrupt the people around them who want to live in a healthy way. I've met narcs who can't even be around healthy behaviours without mocking it. Its like dude, if you can't say something nice, how about not saying anything at all? But they are in this state where they cause damage. They cause damage to themselves and others, and can't or won't see it.

I can't imagine having an ability to enjoy watching others suffer. It's just not in me. Thankfully, I don't think it is in most humans. I can't imagine living without a conscience that kicks in and I can't imagine lacking empathy for others. I can't imagine being so damaged that I root for a family member to fail at recovering from their crappy childhood. I just can't get into their shoes, no matter how long I keep thinking about narcissism, I can't relate to it. I cannot imagine treating people the way narcs treat people."

That's just it, and that's wy we are are. Bless this place!

And this:

"The fact that we didn't belong there, becomes more validating to me the more I reflect on it. To belong with those people, we would have had to have those traits. We would have had to live by causing drama in the same ways they did. The only way to fit in to that sort of group, is to share their same approach to life. Not worth it!

You wrote about the hostility towards you. My heart goes out to you, knowing what that discard feels like."

Thank you. You're family also had to do quite a number on you for us to be here talking about it. I'm sorry for what they put you through, and also for anyone reading for what your family put you through. But I am glad we are talking about it.

This is very true:

"If the flying monkeys we left behind wanted to change, they could. I mean, if they wanted you in their life in a healthy way, they could have learned how to create a path for that to happen.

Instead, as is common for many of us here, the narcs and the flying monkeys in our FOO doubled down on their status quo."

My flying monkeys did not contact me once after NC (too busy jockeying for position, excuse the cynicism) I could have fallen off the face of the Earth. Not even one message or mail. In the hoovers I received from the senior uNs not once did they express concern, and no attempt to apologize, they just blathered on about themselves or how I was being too sensitive, and overreacting (this last part was so important to them) or talked about Hallmark holiday b.s. At their worst they tried to push my sentimental buttons. No go. Little do they know how much I have changed...

I agree with this as well:

"I think this is the ugly truth of narcissism. Not only can they not live in a healthy way, they actively disrupt the people around them who want to live in a healthy way. I've met narcs who can't even be around healthy behaviours without mocking it. Its like dude, if you can't say something nice, how about not saying anything at all? But they are in this state where they cause damage. They cause damage to themselves and others, and can't or won't see it.

I can't imagine having an ability to enjoy watching others suffer. It's just not in me. Thankfully, I don't think it is in most humans."

This is why I don't miss my family. I don't want to be around people who enjoy watching other's suffer. I feel the loss at times and I feel lonely, That's easier to deal with than dealing with them. Wow!

You closed with this:

"Like the list in the article Guitarman posted, trauma bonds are dangerous, but are they destructive to the narcissists? Or to the non-narcissists? What is destroyed? Is the narcissism ever under threat of destruction? From my years on this forum, I would say no. Narcissists remain narcissistic, and some people argue that actually over time they get better and better at what they do best (practice makes perfect)."

I don't think the trauma bonds are destructive to the narcissists, just to the nons. They do get better at it, and I think some even do research to perfect their game.. In hindsite I think about the vocabulary in some of the phrases "my" head uN said to and about me, and its clear either someone confronted them previously about their behaviour in a different situation and they stored up the info, or they had been reading (studying up) about it. If not then, some of it must really be innate. It's just too much of a coincidence.

I do think they do get better at their game, but I have seen that they can also have numerous implosions as people get wise to their b.s. (I guess we'd call them uN injuries.) They absolutely cannot handle losing control of anyone or anything.

I hope more articles like these continue to circulate--not just the ones on NPD but ones like these on trauma bonding...I think there are a lot of people who ask themselves "why can't I leave?" If they knew more, they  might be better equipped to do so.

Thanks again to guitarman for bringing up trauma bonding.