My story

[Westernesse]

I'm the eldest of 3 boys. Growing up seemed mostly ok at the time, but looking back it was punctuated with dreadful episodes where there was a brooding sense of anger and hostility in the house.
My father used to refer to my mother as "The Dark at the Top of the Stairs" when she would go into her moods and sulk for days on end.

It could have been for any manner of things. Her sister maybe looked at her the wrong way or made a comment that she didn't like. She had been shopping that day and hadn't seen anything she liked. I had exhibited some independent thought and will perhaps, as I often did.

I remember a holiday in particular when my Dad lost his shit with her in the car. She could be so mean. He drove us all into a field and got out and walked away. Much distress but not from her. He came back of course.

All my life I was reminded that "I AM YOUR MOTHER". I felt a need to please her or at least keep her sweet to avoid moods.

She and my dad were mostly estranged from his family. This was seemingly fine. I think they probably WERE dysfunctional and idiot.

I remember her flying into a rage when I was about 14 at the idea I might have a girlfriend. Her rages were always just cruel speech, veiled threats etc.

Into adulthood I was still living at home aged 27. I had briefly moved into a flat for 6 months to look after it for someone and this caused absolute outrage. But it gave me a taste for freedom.

So I decided to change my life. I began to focus on my career and aspirations and met by wife to be. This caused visible discomfort, and a lot of "you've changed" chat. They then fell out with my brother and his wife after their first child was born. B and SIL were outraged by boundary infractions.

Wife and I got on fine with them for a few years but we always had to keep her and increasingly THEM, sweet. Even then, "what have you done for me lately" was a sword of Damocles hanging over us.

My father was an enabler with some narc tendencies. I used to feel sorry for him but after he stopped working and his world and perspective became smaller, his narcissism grew. So now I had 2 to deal with.

This escalated quickly after our first son was born.

Wife had emergency C section and then some considerable PTSD and PND. We also had some other significant difficulties going on in our lives at the time.

Parents turned up ridiculously late to see our son at visiting in hospital. They apparently couldn't find the right greeting card. Then as we tried to adjust to our new life at home we committed the heinous crime of saying no to a proposed lunch date for my wife's birthday. We just wanted to stay at home that day and she was still really quite unwell but this did not suit.

I got busy and was no longer speaking to them in the phone every other day. I called after a week and spoke to my dad to hear her shrieking in the background "he only phoned when we wants something, we're no longer of use it seems."

Stress levels rising.

To manage the situation I arranged another visit to see them and bring the baby. We had been there 2 weeks previously but I had heard through the family grapevine that she had been moaning about not having seen HER grandson in weeks.

We went only to find they had taken themselves out for the day. Mind games. I was mortified in front of my wife.

Then I started to get real heat for not having taken baby to see my grandmother yet. So I arranged that but on the way we bumped into my parents at a coffee shop and mother managed to wangle coming with us.

The visit became very tense with my mother constantly referring to our son as HER boy and criticising her hat we had dressed him in blah blah blah.

Very tense car ride home. My wife was furious but to keep some peace and for my sake sent an apology text which was received with no grace.

Over the next few months we hardly saw them until a family wedding where my mother behaved appallingly and made a huge scene. I drove away that day, crippled with stress and just dropped the rope.

A couple of months passed and I was invited for peace talks. I went and received a barrage of abuse and list of where I was failing to meet their expectations.

I walked out. A long time passed and my dad then started asking me to meet for coffee. I did this but had to listen to the same absolute drivel over and over, reminding me of when he used to phone me constantly in the middle of the working day to moan about completely irrelevant nonsense or go on about the Illuminati and how David Icke might have a point.

So I stopped meeting him. Over the years then I would get sporadic sad messages which I ignored but then phone calls, messages, voicemails, him phoning my work, hanging around outside my work to catch me on the way out etc.

I blocked them on everything and lost contact with the rest of my family because I can't bare to be chastised of be sucked back in.

No contact for years and then I got an email a few months ago saying URGENT, please call! So I steeled myself and did. It was absolutely nothing. Having unblocked him to make the call, I was then sent lots of messages including photos of dead family members etc. Just classic emotional manipulation. Eventually I stopped replying and it's been quiet since.

The pain and stress of it all has been incredible. Yet there have been upsides including the relief of not having to deal with them.

When I think back to my childhood I can honestly remember no actual affection. I was not mistreated or abused certainly but I don't recall cuddles at all, unless there had been a massive blowup and it was being repaired.

I felt from a young age that they did not see me as an actual person but rather a thing of theirs.

My youngest brother moved to America after being enmeshed until his mid 20s. They have since fallen out with so many people and I noted growing up that they could not maintain friendships for any length of time.

In the beginning of it all I partly blamed my wife but I have long since seen that she was legitimately saying NO WAY to the dysfunction.

I see absolutely no hope of a reconciliation. The behaviours will Cree back in and my mother's ego will never allow it. In all this time she has reached out to me once, early on. A nasty text message about missing my dad's birthday.

The also pull stunts like sending me birthday cards to my work saying stuff like "thinking of you on your birthday, even though you've dumped us", crap like that.

There's so much more but I can't think just now.

And breathe!!!!

[Westernesse]

Also a lot of crap over the years about how tough it was to be a mother of sons as sons don't bother with their mothers once they are married.

Including in my wedding day where she lamented "a daughter's a daughter all of her life, a son's a son until he takes a wife". I just ignored it.

Self fulfilling prophesy.

It was all on the cards the whole time, I know that now. But it was only the birth of my son that made it really kick off. I think that was a combination of her insecurities finally coming home to roost and my own reduction in bandwidth for dealing with crap from people.

[SunnyMeadow]

I'm glad you're here Westernesse. I see bits of my upbringing in your posts. It all seems to boil down to them only concerned about themselves.

No contact is a good way to protect yourself and your family from them. You'd think after a prolonged period of NC, they'd realize they might want to change how they relate but it doesn't work out that way. It doesn't with my uNPD mother either. She can't see her role in the dozens and dozens of failed relationships.

This is a wonderful place full of people willing to share their stories. I'm sure you'll find many similar stories here and help to navigate through the emotional trauma of having NPD parents.

[Worthy of Care]

Westernesse,

I just want you to know that I read your post. I felt sad for you and angry at your FOO as I read. It is a lot to deal with and I can see that you've made some really good decisions in protecting yourself and your current family.

I am new to Out of the FOG also. Welcome to you and thank you for sharing your story.

Worthy of Care

[Westernesse]

I'm glad you're here Westernesse. I see bits of my upbringing in your posts. It all seems to boil down to them only concerned about themselves.

No contact is a good way to protect yourself and your family from them. You'd think after a prolonged period of NC, they'd realize they might want to change how they relate but it doesn't work out that way. It doesn't with my uNPD mother either. She can't see her role in the dozens and dozens of failed relationships.

This is a wonderful place full of people willing to share their stories. I'm sure you'll find many similar stories here and help to navigate through the emotional trauma of having NPD parents.

Thank you Sunny and just to say as well I'm not just here to dump; hopefully I can help others now I have finally reached a place of relative peace with it all.

[Westernesse]

Westernesse,

I just want you to know that I read your post. I felt sad for you and angry at your FOO as I read. It is a lot to deal with and I can see that you've made some really good decisions in protecting yourself and your current family.

I am new to Out of the FOG also. Welcome to you and thank you for sharing your story.

Worthy of Care

Thank you WoC, that really is appreciated.

[Westernesse]

Forgot to mention, during all this I was duped into going back into the lion's den for a second time after the first peace talks broke down.

This was after I had been meeting my father for coffee and he invited me down on the Sunday.

I agreed but I said that if it was going to be like the previous encounter then that would be that. He promised it would not be.

It was worse. My mother was in a simmering cold rage throughout and exploded with all the "after all we've done for you", "who do you think you are " and "you would be NOTHING without us".

This was because I calmly explained my objection to her mindset that my wife and I should be spending our weekends going round visiting my aunts and uncles (her brothers and sisters).

I asked her if that's what she did when she was newly married with a young family.

As she shrieked, I started raising my voice back. My dad then started shouting, thinking he could intimidate me. I'm not physically scared of him, though I reckon he is fairly strong. I felt another kind of fear though, because I was alone with them in their house and this escalation was occurring.

I then did something quite deceptive but in self defence. I tactically pretended to back down. I delivered some platitudes and made some half hearted agreements to work on things. Then I got the hell out of there and I resisted all forms of communication, which angered them immensely.

I feel like I have them a scrap of moral high ground with that, but in the moment I didn't know what else to do.

[Cat of the Canals]

I then did something quite deceptive but in self defence. I tactically pretended to back down. I delivered some platitudes and made some half hearted agreements to work on things. Then I got the hell out of there and I resisted all forms of communication, which angered them immensely.

I feel like I have them a scrap of moral high ground with that, but in the moment I didn't know what else to do.

Your mom sounds quite a bit like mine. All that simmering rage. And especially the notion of not being allowed to express an independent thought or opinion without severe consequences.

I think you did exactly the correct thing here. You quickly deduced the best way to escape safely was to "make nice" and then GET OUT. If the scenario had been one where physical violence was a possibility, I don't think you'd judge yourself so harshly. We tend to have different "rules" for emotional abuse, but I don't think the distinction is necessary. Abuse is abuse. Getting out anyway you can is the smartest move.

[JenniferSmith]

Just wanted to say I appreciate you sharing your story here and so much resonates with me.  I feel like I benefit the most from just reading other people's stories.... it reminds me that I am not a freak or a  weirdo or a loser because I am estranged from my entire family.

These types of families are highly dysfunctional systems that span generations, usually.  Anyone who stays "in" the system is living inauthentically on some level. Because in this family system, each individual is not allowed to be authentic. Its simply not possible.

I think its very common for there to a life change (such as a birth of a child, or things) that forces many of us to decide we cannot live in this inauthentic way any longer.  And that may be what prompts us to go NC.

In my case, there is abuse that I can trace back at least four generations on my mother's side. Physical, sexual, emotional in varying forms over each generation.  I find it helps me to look at the bigger picture when I start feeling discouraged and hopeless about it. I realize that it wasn't that wanted to go NC... it was that I wanted to be authentic in my relationships, and the choice was either be in this messed up family, or be authentic.  Its not a fun or pleasant choice to have to make. And also not simple either.

I do struggle with judging myself for not being "strong enough" to keep engaging with various family members. But then I think, why should I have to be "strong" in order to have a relationship with someone?  Or I judge myself for not being able to "get over" everything I went through in the decades before I went NC.   Then again, I say, why should I have to get over it, why doesn't the person who abused and treated me like garbage have to take any accountability and actually change? 

These types of families are just a mess. Its so sad and such a waste. I have friends who have decent, caring families. Sure there are issues here and there, but by and large, they just treat each other well, accept each other as they are, and get along with each other.  Its hard sometimes not to be envious of that. They just lucked out on being born into that sort of family.  I wish all of us here had too.

[Westernesse]

Hi all. My grandmother died a few months ago. My mother's mother. She was well into her 90s. This was an event I had dreaded for years due to the contact it would result in.

Due to the estrangement, I have become estranged from the wider family. Attending the funeral would have been a nightmare and very likely disastrous.

Imagine my relief when it seemed they didn't want me there anyway. So I got off really lightly and all I had to endure from it was a frenzy of phone calls from my father in the run up giving me breathless information on practicalities and I fighting within the larger family.

Due to COVID stuff at the time I watched the service online and that was that.

It's been quiet since then and I'm feeling quite at peace with it's all. Can't help feeling that's a dangerous place to be.

[moglow]

Hey Westernesse! We're so unaware and busy making excuses for/with them until we cant anymore. Once that light dawns we cant unsee, can we?


There's a part of me/us that feels we can't refuse a grands' or other family funeral but at the same time, at what cost should we attend. Go back into a hornets nest - to what purpose? Much better that you say goodbye in your own way. My mother was notorious for throwing down before/at any gathering, taking out everyone in her path. She took particular delight in showing everyone that said event was really about *her.* Funerals were especially painful as she went on about how she was grieving so we must all [fill in the blank] for her. Never mind that she's sitting right there with her family, all must cater to her because SHE is struggling.


I went back and read your earlier posts for some back story - The dark at the top of the stairs, indeed. Much of what you shared felt so familiar to me, no knowing what would set her off or which direction it would go once started. The presumption and demands and meltdowns because you dared live your own life!


Curious - what's your relationship if any with your brothers, or did she decimate that as well?

[Westernesse]

Hey Westernesse! We're so unaware and busy making excuses for/with them until we cant anymore. Once that light dawns we cant unsee, can we?


There's a part of me/us that feels we can't refuse a grands' or other family funeral but at the same time, at what cost should we attend. Go back into a hornets nest - to what purpose? Much better that you say goodbye in your own way. My mother was notorious for throwing down before/at any gathering, taking out everyone in her path. She took particular delight in showing everyone that said event was really about *her.* Funerals were especially painful as she went on about how she was grieving so we must all [fill in the blank] for her. Never mind that she's sitting right there with her family, all must cater to her because SHE is struggling.


I went back and read your earlier posts for some back story - The dark at the top of the stairs, indeed. Much of what you shared felt so familiar to me, no knowing what would set her off or which direction it would go once started. The presumption and demands and meltdowns because you dared live your own life!


Curious - what's your relationship if any with your brothers, or did she decimate that as well?

Thanks very much for asking. Regarding my GMs funeral, I hadn't seen her for circa 8 years largely because of an incident where my mother kicked off at my wife in my GM's house when our son was about 8 weeks. At first it was just too mortifying to go back and then it was the worry of going back and not knowing if my mother would be there.

I also feared uncles, aunts, cousins etc making comments to me or becoming flying monkeys. They would have tried to shame me in getting back in line and I would have either acquiesced or kicked off. The whole thing left me fragile for a time and I had a lot of other stress in my life, so this all had to give.

I expected to be pressured to go to the funeral but I was incredibly worried about it. I would have steeled myself and done it but it seemed to be be quietly accepted that I wouldn't be there and I couldn't see any benefit for anyone. That was a relief.

I had a few sessions of counselling this year and it really did make me feel quite a bit better. I got the validation I think I needed.

My youngest brother is in America, he basically met a girl online and one of the times he went to visit he never came back. He was enmeshed before that. There is no beef between us but we are hardly in touch these days.

My other brother has a toxic wife who caused quite a bit of chaos and caused real trouble in the extended family by winding people up with he said/she said stuff. They fell out with my parents multiple times and were weird with us at various points before my wife and I were married. They had a child and we're very firm with their boundaries, which we respected entirely.

However, when we had our first and my wife had PND, this SIL would NOT respect boundaries and became enraged when we tried to assert them. She eventually posted something nasty about us on Facebook when we were at our absolute lowest ebb and since then they have been out of our lives.

[Westernesse]

Just wanted to say I appreciate you sharing your story here and so much resonates with me.  I feel like I benefit the most from just reading other people's stories.... it reminds me that I am not a freak or a  weirdo or a loser because I am estranged from my entire family.

These types of families are highly dysfunctional systems that span generations, usually.  Anyone who stays "in" the system is living inauthentically on some level. Because in this family system, each individual is not allowed to be authentic. Its simply not possible.

I think its very common for there to a life change (such as a birth of a child, or things) that forces many of us to decide we cannot live in this inauthentic way any longer.  And that may be what prompts us to go NC.

In my case, there is abuse that I can trace back at least four generations on my mother's side. Physical, sexual, emotional in varying forms over each generation.  I find it helps me to look at the bigger picture when I start feeling discouraged and hopeless about it. I realize that it wasn't that wanted to go NC... it was that I wanted to be authentic in my relationships, and the choice was either be in this messed up family, or be authentic.  Its not a fun or pleasant choice to have to make. And also not simple either.

I do struggle with judging myself for not being "strong enough" to keep engaging with various family members. But then I think, why should I have to be "strong" in order to have a relationship with someone?  Or I judge myself for not being able to "get over" everything I went through in the decades before I went NC.   Then again, I say, why should I have to get over it, why doesn't the person who abused and treated me like garbage have to take any accountability and actually change? 

These types of families are just a mess. Its so sad and such a waste. I have friends who have decent, caring families. Sure there are issues here and there, but by and large, they just treat each other well, accept each other as they are, and get along with each other.  Its hard sometimes not to be envious of that. They just lucked out on being born into that sort of family.  I wish all of us here had too.

Thank you for this post Jennifer. I feel pretty much all of this.

[moglow]

I was hoping for better for you, but I get it. Everyone gets their in their own time. For decades my brothers brushed off mother's stuff, didn't understand why I wasn't just as blase about it. But I was still in [too] regular contact with her, couldn't seem to separate and believed that somehow I could make it right with/for her somehow. Not enmeshed and making excuses but unable to let go either. It's only been in the past several years that things have changed with them - mother's now burned on each of my brothers at least once, for no reason other than that's who she is. Then she blamed them for her behavior or alternately tried to blame me for her lack of relationship with them. It's honestly a comfort for me, that they see it now even though we don't discuss her much. I selfishly wish it had happened many years ago, but I didn't see it for what it is either.

It may be that in time and as older family members pass, all that ugliness goes with it. We're seeing it in our family now that mother's the last one standing. Cousins have stepped up here and there and acknowledged that they "knew" but nothing they could do about it. It helps being seen even long after the fact.


Wishing you peace - you deserve it.