Secrecy

[Hilly]

Throughout my childhood and onwards my sister who is 10 yrs older would tell me really disturbing things about her life in horrific detail and then tell me not to tell anyone. Some of these things would later turn out to be untrue.

It was obviously inappropriate given the age gap and how young I was when it started, and I've realised it made me feel very isolated. She would then follow this all up by minimising everything and saying that everything was fine and to forget about what she'd said.

I've had a period of very low contact with her since she refused to respect any boundaries when my baby was born, but then made the mistake of getting in touch with her and she did it all over again! This time bombarding me with messages saying that her current boyfriend was cheating on her and had done it before, she then told me not to tell anyone and then said to forget about it and it was actually all fine. The timing was really bad because I then had to see her at a wedding a few days later and just sit there pretending everything was fine. She then kept saying really loudly that my husband and kids and I should go on holiday with her and her boyfriend, offering to look after my kids etc, really over doing it on the whole 'we are a happy family' act.

What is this all about? She's definitely very into the victim mentality but why all the dumping stuff on me and then swearing me to secrecy? Is it a control thing?

The other thing she does is that she is obsessed with the family whatsapp group with her and her boyfriend posting several times a day and having conversations on there in front of the whole family. I feel like leaving the group as on a 'soul' level it's just bothering me that everyone goes along with her little show. It's getting me down and bringing up a lot of stuff I want to leave behind.

[bee well]

Hi Hilly,

With regards to your Sister and your family dynamic you asked:

"What is this all about? She's definitely very into the victim mentality but why all the dumping stuff on me and then swearing me to secrecy? Is it a control thing?"

I'm sorry you have been dealing with this. I don't have an answer to all of your questions but here are a few reflections:


The "public vs. private" within the family aspect of it all stands out to me.

I can say in my family the secrecy led to triangulation, (and isolation, as you write about in your post). It's confusing because when many of the secrets turn out to be lies that creates doubt in general. It also brings the concept of enmeshment to mind.

Many of us in similar situations have had to come to terms with the fact that we will never know if all of what we were told is the truth.

Talking to someone outside of the family systems can bring a lot of clarity, whether here or in therapy, or in a support group.  I hope you'll continue to talk in safe (enough) spaces.

There is also a therapist on youtube called Jerry wise who describes family systems. I think a lot of what he talks about in his videos might be relative to your situation.

A book that might interest you is "Bradshaw on: The Family: A New Way of Creating Solid Self-Esteem" by John Bradshaw. Bradshaw talks about Self Esteem but he also goes a long way into describing (dysfunctional) family systems, and talks about recovery too. Another book many of us have found relevant is "Cptsd from surviving to thriving" by Pete Walker. I don't know if you have CPTSD, but Walker's work could be useful in any case as he talks in depth about the feelings and situations that can be generated by unhealthy family dynamics.

I'm curious to hear what other OOTFers think of your situation.

[NarcKiddo]

Secrecy has always been a big thing in my family. I have a uNPD mother, a father who I think must have some sort of PD but I have not worked out what it is and a sister who has definite NPD tendencies. My mother's mother was uNPD too.

Secrecy in our case was:

My mother telling us nobody outside of immediate family could be trusted and we should tell nobody anything. Active lying was encouraged.

My mother telling us not to tell father things.

My mother telling me not to tell sister things.

My mother telling sister not to tell me things.

Sister and I telling each other not to tell mother things.

Sister and I telling mother not to tell other sister things.

Between mother and daughters there was a huge amount of breaches of things told in confidence. As an adult I now make a huge effort not to pass on anything said in confidence, even though I am pretty sure in my mother's case that some things told to me apparently in confidence are actually supposed to be passed on to my sister.

We are also instructed to pass on mother's views/instructions but to pretend they are ours and not hers. I will no longer play this game. I think my sister still does.

It might be instructive for you to consider who are supposed to be keeping your sister's secrets from. Is she just a drama queen or is there some sort of triangulation going on?

[Hilly]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful responses and I'm sorry you've both been through similar experiences.

I've been pondering the triangulation thing and it is interesting because I hadn't thought so much about my family as a system. I have had therapy and what was interesting was that she noticed that I seem to think I feel my parents need 'protecting'. So perhaps the secrecy thing is to do with my parents slotting into the 'victim' role, or at least a sort of 'helpless' role in triangulation and me taking up the 'rescuer' role to my sister.

I think she does also enjoy the dramatic element of being a victim and the helplessness that comes along with all that. I feel like she almost has a romantic attachment to the idea of herself as the victim of everything life throws at her and all the terrible men who have mistreated her. There is also a huge amount of rage if she gets challenged on her behaviour which she has relied upon in the past to keep people from challenging her on her own aggression towards men.

Narckiddo your comment that you are pretty sure that some things told to you in confidence were meant to be passed onto your sister really struck a chord. My mum was pretty overwhelmed and walled off growing up i think, and I wonder if my sister by passing things on to me in secrecy was actually hoping that I would drip feed stuff to my mum who my sis found unapproachable.

I also think you have a good point bee well about the public vs private thing - that there's a very showy flavour to my sister and her boyfriends behaviour on the family WhatsApp group in a kind of 'look at us we are so cute and wholesome' way! Literally not a day goes by without multiple updates and photos of their lives and they even use the family WhatsApp group to talk directly to each other when it has nothing to do with anyone else. Meanwhile I'm getting messages about him cheating! So I'm left with this icky feeling that I'm holding some taboo info while the rest of the family can relax.

I will definitely check out those books you mention bee well - thank you. And I have had a look at Jerry wise videos - the ones on radical acceptance and detachment seem to be exactly what I need right now.

[bee well]

Hi Hilly,

It sounds like you have a good understanding of the dynamics in this situation. That could be very helpful going forward.

NarcKiddo's response stood out to me as well. That's how it went. Many times that was how information was controlled and passed on in an indirect, manipulative way. There were also secrets that were told and resulted in a sort of metaphorical hostage keeping. In the sense that "Oh, here's a secret (that involves something that went on behind someone's back). But you can't tell or it will ruin the family." Then the result is the someone who "receives" the secret suffers in silence, and it sets the stage for the triangulation we have talked about here...

I had never thought of it this way when I as in the middle of it, but when someone asks if they can tell us a secret we have to right to say no! (A lot of times they don't ask, different story.)

[Hilly]

Yes I think your metaphorical hostage idea captures it perfectly, especially when it's kids or teens being asked to keep secrets that are completely beyond their ability understand and therefore cope with, for e.g. my sister would describe details of domestic abuse that she claimed she was a victim of, eating disorders, attempts to take her life, then tell me not to tell anyone. This started when I was around 11 and carried on for years until I distanced myself from her. During that time I on and off I felt numbed. If I had been able to tell someone then it would have relieved the sense of feeling trapped and that 'hostage' feeling you describe.

In fact, it was finally telling a friend what my sister was telling me that made me snap into awareness. My friend was so shocked at the details my sister was telling me that it made me suddenly realise how much I had been carrying for my sister, (and how much I now realise I was carrying for my parents and the rest of the family so they didn't need to face up to how disturbed my sister was and how unbalanced the family was).

My sister has now just announced her engagement to the guy she told me was cheating on her just weeks earlier. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in the family who was bombarded with messages sent late at night and at 530am claiming he had cheated on her (and done it before!), as everyone is rushing to congratulate her and say what wonderful news it it.

I feel the same strange sense of dissonance that I felt as a teenager when this was going on. Sometimes I feel this urge to blurt out what she's been telling me whilst posting pics of her and him on the family WhatsApp group and announcing an engagement, but I know from past behaviour that she will either minimise, deny or fly into a rage. Anyway if I did that it would just be part of the same wonky family dynamics I've always been a part of but just a different tilt with me now cast as the 'aggressor'.

It's hard because everyone else seems oblivious and it does make me feel isolated. My family aren't particularly supportive of helpful - I have small kids and all the help has gone to my sis.

Painful as it is I think the only way forward for me is to create as much distance as possible, as the alternative is just a bit soul destroying - I can only do so much fakeness and pretending.

[bloomie]

Hilly - It sounds like a painful time of coming to terms with your family of origin's unhealthy patterns and realizing that how it all is negatively impacting your mental health and peace of mind.

Your sister's behaviors mirror my mother's. I know what it is like to be 11 years old and carry the responsibility for a grown adult's very serious and even life threatening problems. The years of co dependency that set me up for, the years of allowing myself to agonize over 'secrets' and the impending doom, waiting for the next shoe to drop, the backed into a corner because if I raised an alarm I would be severely punished for it...

Learning about trauma responses and learning to quiet those and how to respond to them, and not act from them, has been really helpful for me. The work of Jerry Wise and Pete Walker along with learning to recognize, feel, understand and work with my emotions through the work of Karla McLaren - The Language of Emotions, is a continuing part of my own healing journey.

Learning where I end and another begins and then reminding myself of that when I am activated to rescue and help, to raise the alarm, like you may be with your sister's newest attention grab of planning to marry a man she claims is unfaithful to her, has been key.

Deciding where you can step back and no longer engage... set your phone to do not disturb so you don't get histrionic texts in the middle of the night about supposed situations you have absolutely zero control over is an easy step. Not checking or looking at the What's App family group or only checking it once a week - giving your nervous system a break from the onslaught you may experience when you see and hear all of this info that doesn't line up might be really important as you do this hard healing work and you begin to recover from a lifetime of dysfunction.

For so long, in my own FOO, I was the burden bearer, dumping ground, keeper of secrets, fix it, doer and what that set me up for was being a ginormous target and completely depleted. What I offered, I did in love and from a sincere heart, but I came to realize, something you mention here, there was little to no support and encouragement for me and my life challenges. It all became a way of life I could not hold up under.

My own mother never changed. She only got worse.  She was disordered, addicted, and mentally ill. The thing that changed, began to heal, grow and make a healthy path forward was only me. By the grace of God I survived her and the fallout that was her life.

You are on a journey that is challenging and we are here with you as you make your way! Strength and wisdom to you!

[hhaw]

Hilly - It sounds like a painful time of coming to terms with your family of origin's unhealthy patterns and realizing that how it all is negatively impacting your mental health and peace of mind.

Your sister's behaviors mirror my mother's. I know what it is like to be 11 years old and carry the responsibility for a grown adult's very serious and even life threatening problems. The years of co dependency that set me up for, the years of allowing myself to agonize over 'secrets' and the impending doom, waiting for the next shoe to drop, the backed into a corner because if I raised an alarm I would be severely punished for it...

Learning about trauma responses and learning to quiet those and not respond to them has been really helpful for me. The work of Jerry Wise and Pete Walker along with learning to recognize, feel, understand and work with my emotions through the work of Karla McLaren - The Language of Emotions, is a continuing part of my own healing journey.

Learning where I end and another begins and then reminding myself of that when I am activated to rescue and help, to raise the alarm, like you may be with your sister's newest attention grab of planning to marry a man she claims is unfaithful to her, has been key.

Deciding where you can step back and no longer engage... set your phone to do not disturb so you don't get histrionic texts in the middle of the night about supposed situations you have absolutely zero control over is an easy step. Not checking or looking at the What's App family group or only checking it once a week - giving your nervous system a break from the onslaught you may experience when you see and hear all of this info that doesn't line up might be really important as you do this hard healing work and you begin to recover from a lifetime of dysfunction.

For so long, in my own FOO, I was the burden bearer, dumping ground, keeper of secrets, fix it, doer and what that set me up for was being a ginormous target and completely depleted. What I offered, I did in love and from a sincere heart, but I came to realize, something you mention here, there was little to no support and encouragement for me and my life challenges. It all became a way of life I could not hold up under.

My own mother never changed. She only got worse.  She was disordered, addicted, and mentally ill. The thing that changed, began to heal, grow and make a healthy path forward was only me. By the grace of God I survived her and the fallout that was her life.

You are on a journey that is challenging and we are here with you as you make your way! Strength and wisdom to you!

What bloomie said, yup yup yup.

[bee well]

Hi Again Hilly,

That's so messed up. Again, sorry you are dealing with that.

I'm glad you are here!

I'm on board with what Bloomie and Hhaw said. Thanks, Bloomie! A lot of us needed this.

[Hilly]

Thanks for all this wise advice bloomie. I love the Language of Emotions and am checking out Jerry Wise. Even just ignoring the family WhatsApp group for a few days like you suggest is helping to give my nervous system a break. I'm going to look at it once a week from now on for my own sanity. Thanks for the support. This forum is so great

[bloomie]

Hilly - that's a good update! A great use of your time and energy!