Just watched mom gaslight someone else and it scares me

[Sneezy]

My mom lives in independent senior living and she has been seeing Sam, the widower downstairs, for over a year. On Friday, mom called me in hysterics, because she and Sam had broken up.  He had dumped her.  Made a fool of her.  Her heart was broken.  I happened to be out running errands, so I went to her apartment and sat with her for two hours.  She was weepy and unresponsive for much of the time.  I hovered, made her coffee, tried to get her to eat.  Then Sam called, and I could easily hear both sides of the conversation.  Sam had never broken up with my mom.  He was contrite, he professed his love, he was clearly upset.  It turns out that he is moving into assisted living because of his health (he can barely stand up and can no longer walk on his own, plus he has heart issues).  Sam wants to continue their relationship and he wants to pay for mom's transportation so she can visit him at least once a week.

Mom was awful to poor Sam.  She cried, she shook, she berated him.  She said nasty things to him and skewed all the facts to make him look like the bad guy.  He could barely get a word in.  She manipulated that poor 90-year old man to within an inch of his life.  It was the most awkward conversation I have ever listened in on. 

To top it all off, Sam isn't even moving to assisted living.  He is going there temporarily for rehab and will hopefully be back in his old apartment within a couple months.  Honestly, I think he'd be better off if he never lived in the same building again as my mom, but there's not much I can do about that.

I don't know what, if anything, to do.  I feel so bad for Sam.  I can't stand the way my mom manipulates him.  And watching Mom in action really scared me.  She does the same thing to Sam as she does to me.  Absolutely evil, calculating manipulation and gaslighting, unfounded accusations, no respect for the other person's feelings.  It was eye-opening, and horrendous, to watch.

Sometimes I think my mom is just pure evil.  And I don't know what to do.  I wish I could figure it out.

[NarcKiddo]

I don't there is anything you can realistically do for Sam.

A little while away from her in the rehab facility might open his eyes or it might not.

Ugh. Poor Sam.

[moglow]

Sneezy, try and look at it for what it is, understand this is another side of who she is and who she's been all along. What you saw could well be her underlying fears that he/another person will leave her - that "you can't fire me, I quit" mentality that seems to step in as a self-defense mechanism. That's HER stuff. It doesn't make it right, or easy, or acceptable on any level. It is who she is.

Absolutely evil, calculating manipulation and gaslighting, unfounded accusations, no respect for the other person's feelings.  It was eye-opening, and horrendous, to watch.

It *is* scary. Part of your fear is probably understanding that all of this is a choice on her part. It feels normal and acceptable to her because she's always justified it in her mind. To normal people, it's absolutely evil and manipulative and someone causing another deliberate harm. She's done it to you countless times, and I understand how awful it is to see it in action. You can put yourself in that position and you know what it does.

You can't fix this for Sam or for your mother. Please take care of yourself. We're here with you.

[Cat of the Canals]

As hard as it is to be the child of a narcissist, it sometimes feels even harder to watch them repeat the same behaviors on others. When I think of the way my PDmom treats my dad (her most frequent scapegoat), I sometimes feel physically ill. Perhaps the hardest part of all is accepting (like everyone above has said) that there's very little we can do about it.

[Sneezy]

someone causing another deliberate harm

This is it - this is the problem.  I realize I am not perfect and I have sometimes harmed others.  I'm sure I have deliberately harmed others in my life.  We all mess up, we all need forgiveness and grace.  But my mom's normal way of dealing with life seems to be to harm others.  That's what worries me, bothers me, and scares me.  She can not put herself in another's shoes.  I have lost count of how many times I have told her that when she dumps all her bad feelings on me, it really hurts my mental health, but she still does it.  I have warned her when she's about to do something hurtful (like telling my brother that his children won't go to heaven because he didn't have them baptized), and yet she takes those hurtful actions anyway.  It's like she is incapable of not hurting others.

Regarding Sam, I asked her to be kind and to take his feelings into account. Poor guy, his health has really gone downhill this summer and he must be scared to move to a rehab facility, where he doesn't know anyone, for two or three months.  And no guarantee that they will be able to get him mobile again, which means he could be there for the rest of his life.  But mom has no sympathy for Sam or anyone else.  It's all about her.

[practical]

someone causing another deliberate harm

This is it - this is the problem.  I realize I am not perfect and I have sometimes harmed others.  I'm sure I have deliberately harmed others in my life.  We all mess up, we all need forgiveness and grace.  But my mom's normal way of dealing with life seems to be to harm others.  That's what worries me, bothers me, and scares me.  She can not put herself in another's shoes.  I have lost count of how many times I have told her that when she dumps all her bad feelings on me, it really hurts my mental health, but she still does it.  I have warned her when she's about to do something hurtful (like telling my brother that his children won't go to heaven because he didn't have them baptized), and yet she takes those hurtful actions anyway.  It's like she is incapable of not hurting others.

Regarding Sam, I asked her to be kind and to take his feelings into account. Poor guy, his health has really gone downhill this summer and he must be scared to move to a rehab facility, where he doesn't know anyone, for two or three months.  And no guarantee that they will be able to get him mobile again, which means he could be there for the rest of his life.  But mom has no sympathy for Sam or anyone else.  It's all about her.

She cannot. She cannot walk in somebody else's shoes, she cannot empathize, it isn't something she can learn either. No amount of you talking to her is going to change this. I tried talking to F, I wrote to him about it, it made no difference. Lack of empathy is one of the key issues in NPD, it is like a litmus test. See her as a defective car that can only drive in 1st gear. From the outside it looks normal, it can drive to, but it cannot shift to go for various speeds depending on whether it is on a regular road, a highway or going down a mountain. You are asking her to do the impossible.

You cannot help Sam, but you can help yourself. When she starts behaving towards you in any way you have told her before is unhealthy for you, remind her you won't accept that kind of behaviour anymore and leave. Is that going to change her behaviour? Maybe for a while, the key is it will change your life. You can only control your reactions and actions not hers. It is a lesson I learned here and has been invaluable in dealing with F. There is a great piece about self-victimisation in the Top 100 Traits https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/self-victimization , I highly recommend it to you. There is one part in particular that I kept reminding myself of when dealing with F:
"If you are in a relationship with someone who plays the victim, it is easy to feel like you are in the classic "damned if you do and damned if you don't" scenario. No matter how hard you try, how well you behave, or how much you sacrifice, your actions and efforts can never fill the bottomless pit of "need" that is presented to you. . Once you solve problem A, problem B suddenly appears.

This happens because the true "need" is inside the mind of the person who is playing the victim. What they really need is to address their own illness with treatment programs that work, which also requires effort and rigorous work on their own part. It has nothing to do with you. Even if you had the character of Gandhi, Mother Theresa and Saint Francis rolled into one, you could never fill the void - because you cannot change what their mind creates. At some point, you are likely to feel resentment and frustration as you realize your efforts are being consumed and not reciprocated. Worse still, you may find you are the focus of the Personality-Disordered individual's resentments and complaints."

[Starboard Song]

I don't know what, if anything, to do.  I feel so bad for Sam.  I can't stand the way my mom manipulates him.  And watching Mom in action really scared me.  She does the same thing to Sam as she does to me.  Absolutely evil, calculating manipulation and gaslighting, unfounded accusations, no respect for the other person's feelings.  It was eye-opening, and horrendous, to watch.

I get a change to see my MIL and FIL in action sometimes, through written communications. It is horrifying. I shared the revulsion you feel upon seeing it.

It was eye-opening. Focus on that.

When people show us the kind of person they are, we must believe them.

[practical]

As horrifying as it is, it can be very helpful to see it being done to the another person. You have an objective viewpoint and observe how awful it is. It was much easier fro me to see when F did it to B than when he did it to me. When he did it to me I somehow ended up feeling guilty, short ended up in the FOG. But when it happened to B I got really upset and wanted to protect him. You want to protect Sam, but cannot. Do you feel equally strongly about protecting yourself? What are you going to do about it? Ask yourself those questions, it will help you.

[Sneezy]

Lack of empathy is one of the key issues in NPD, it is like a litmus test. See her as a defective car that can only drive in 1st gear. From the outside it looks normal, it can drive to, but it cannot shift to go for various speeds depending on whether it is on a regular road, a highway or going down a mountain. You are asking her to do the impossible.

Logically, I know this is true.  But it is so hard to accept this truth. I just have a hard time accepting that my mom's normal mode is to always put her own needs first.  Always.  You are right - she is incapable of empathy.  And as hard as it is to wrap my head around, I need to remember this.

[JenniferSmith]

As horrifying as it is, it can be very helpful to see it being done to the another person. You have an objective viewpoint and observe how awful it is.

This is one of the things that helped me the most in terms of having clarity about my M's issues and behavior - I had two people, independent of each other, tell me about what they observed and experienced from her throughout my childhood.  Neither had any reason to lie or embellish.  It lifted a weight off of me because I was able to see that her behavior patterns were pervasive among many different relationships in her life.  And that is one of the defining features of a PD - that the maladaptive behavior patterns happen in multiple contexts and settings, not limited to a single relationship.