Thought I got away with the holiday thing too easily as well

[p123]

This is a classic from Dad....
I visited him last night - if you remember I've been back a few days now.

After a bit of chat he said "look I don't think you'll be able to go next year".
I was a bit bemused.
Then "Im getting old now, need someone to look after me, its just too long for you to be away, you'll have to tell your kids you can't go next year"
And then "and what if something happens to me when you're away"

WWHHHHAAAAAAATTTTT?

Since when was I you're carer, and when did I agree this then? Flabbergasted is not the word.
After the shock, I said "no Dad it doesn't work like that" and his reply "well it flipping well will have to whether you like it or not?"

Again, WWWHHHHHAAAATTTT? since when am I "forced" to follow your demands?

I left last night with the feeling that he really thinks what he says goes. Of course, not a chance in a million years....
An absolute classic this time

[square]

Unbelievable.

[moglow]

It's not a matter of "getting away with it." It's your life with your family - did you waylay his complaints with 'Tommy finally got to..." Or 'Sally had the best time when we..." Or even "we all went to x show on y night and... " You know, tell him about your trip, deflect his complaints with little joys with your family? You don't have to return to his status quo of complaints doom and gloom. You can cut that off with bright happy things and end the freakin call when you choose. Timmy's home from school and you have a project you're working on together...

Of COURSE he's pushing his demands now, that's what he has and who he is. That doesn't make it yours unless you choose. Cool how that works.

[olivegirl]

My 70+ parents had been pulling the authoritarian "you WILL honor your mother father and listen to us and let us live with you bc we are getting older otherwise there will be repercussions."

I can empathize they are feeling more vulnerable but this is not the way to do it!

So when I reminded my parents for the 100th time that they are not invited to live with me so that I can be their caretaker;

They have decided to really unleash their smear campaign against me.

I am now guilty of being a phony and bullying/verbally abusing my elderly parents bc I refuse to capitulate to their demands.

They don't seem to get that their behavior is just pushing us away even more.

Being NC is so hard for me but simultaneously I need to spare myself the stress of their projections and unnecessary drama.

[p123]

It's not a matter of "getting away with it." It's your life with your family - did you waylay his complaints with 'Tommy finally got to..." Or 'Sally had the best time when we..." Or even "we all went to x show on y night and... " You know, tell him about your trip, deflect his complaints with little joys with your family? You don't have to return to his status quo of complaints doom and gloom. You can cut that off with bright happy things and end the freakin call when you choose. Timmy's home from school and you have a project you're working on together...

Of COURSE he's pushing his demands now, that's what he has and who he is. That doesn't make it yours unless you choose. Cool how that works.

Yeh this is a new level for him this time......

I just dont get how he even thinks he has this power.

[p123]

My 70+ parents had been pulling the authoritarian "you WILL honor your mother father and listen to us and let us live with you bc we are getting older otherwise there will be repercussions."

I can empathize they are feeling more vulnerable but this is not the way to do it!

So when I reminded my parents for the 100th time that they are not invited to live with me so that I can be their caretaker;

They have decided to really unleash their smear campaign against me.

I am now guilty of being a phony and bullying/verbally abusing my elderly parents bc I refuse to capitulate to their demands.

They don't seem to get that their behavior is just pushing us away even more.

Being NC is so hard for me but simultaneously I need to spare myself the stress of their projections and unnecessary drama.

OMG thats just awful!!!!

Yeh same with the Dad the more he "plays up" the more he pushes me away....

Can't believe they threatened you with "repercussions". Thats just wow.

[moglow]

It's not a matter of "getting away with it." It's your life with your family - did you waylay his complaints with 'Tommy finally got to..." Or 'Sally had the best time when we..." Or even "we all went to x show on y night and... " You know, tell him about your trip, deflect his complaints with little joys with your family? You don't have to return to his status quo of complaints doom and gloom. You can cut that off with bright happy things and end the freakin call when you choose. Timmy's home from school and you have a project you're working on together...

Of COURSE he's pushing his demands now, that's what he has and who he is. That doesn't make it yours unless you choose. Cool how that works.

Yeh this is a new level for him this time......

I just dont get how he even thinks he has this power.

He *doesn't*, not unless you give it to him. He's pushing his ideas of "right" on you as if it's yours to carry. I'm not sure how this is a new level of anything, to be honest. This is pretty much who he's been all along, isnt it? He's maybe presented a new expectation but beyond that? No. His opinions, thoughts, meanderings, what ifs and doom don't have to be arguments or even discussions. Him voicing it changes not one thing, just because he says it doesn't make it so.

Have you considered that maybe he says all this stuff to get/keep a conversation going? It's just more noise.

[easterncappy]

It's 2022. We can let go of weird stone ages ideas. It's fine. You shouldn't feel guilty for not letting abusers into your home permanently just because they're old and frail now. If they never apologized, made things right, and had a genuine change of character, they don't get to rely on you to wipe their butt and administer their medicine now. It's not "holding a grudge", it's not "being cruel", it's simply not allowing them to make you a prisoner in your own home after you already worked so hard to get free of them.

If you get the relationship with your adult child to the point where they're uncomfortable even picking up the phone and talking to you, you don't get to permanently invite yourself into their home and force them to play nurse... no one is obligated to pretend you didn't abuse them just because you're too old to take care of yourself now.

My parents are from a hugely "children take care of their elderly parents no matter what" culture. I think they expect it, too, although they claim it won't happen. My mom thinks I'm heartless because if I was her, I'd let her dad "rot in a cruel nursing home" () after growing up with him... being kicked into the streets, beaten, starved, etc. and he's absolved from all of it just because he's old now? Nope, not by my rules.

A part of me thinks it's a control thing, one last FU to their adult child.

[Liketheducks]

p123.....Just WOW!    Way to stand firm.   My mom's expectation is that I'll take care of her too.....and if she doesn't need it yet.....we'll just make something up.   I applaud the way you handled it.

Things definitely don't "work that way".   

[p123]

Yeh for sure with Dad a lot of it is noise - he'll try one thing then another to see what sticks.
He drops things as quickly as he raises them. He'll try it won't work - he'll drop it.

Yeh I get used to it but I don't think I'll ever be able to not let it make me sad. It just saddens me that the relationship is him panicking about things and treating me so badly....

[moglow]

It is sad, and it's hard to wrap our minds around the fact that's what they chose. No sunshine or joy or simple pleasures? When's the last time you had a shared laugh or could truly appreciate each other? That's hard stuff, realizing this is what you have.

[p123]

It is sad, and it's hard to wrap our minds around the fact that's what they chose. No sunshine or joy or simple pleasures? When's the last time you had a shared laugh or could truly appreciate each other? That's hard stuff, realizing this is what you have.

I've always said this that I mourned my Dad 10 years ago - when he goes now I'm not even sure that I'll be that upset.

His life, to him as well mind, seems to be a chore now. There is no joy or happiness just one constant state of him being unhappy and trying to get me to do what he wants. Thats all his life is and has been like that for 10-15 years now.

Hes 88 next week - I just think of all the people out there who died young and were living their best life while dad is pretty much moaning and groaning his last few years.

[nanotech]

Sorry this is long and I hope not hijacking. Sometimes when I start typing I can't stop! 

Your dad. He didn't want you to go on holiday, threw all sorts of tacks and nails under your tyres, to prevent you going. But you went 
Moreover, you went without any guilt or wringing of hands or telling him you would ring him all the time you were away etc. Well done for strengthening your boundaries with him.
They sense that. And when they do, they up their game.

My UNPDDAD  this year, trying to punish me for naysaying a big family meal for his birthday last winter.
This was due to covid cases being well on the rise. Other family members agreed with me. HE also agreed with me. One family member didn't, and she took him out to a busy restaurant anyway, then posted photos on Facebook. Made it look as if no one else had bothered with his birthday.
But then, when things improved regarding the health risks to dad, I got 'punished'. dad wouldn't then LET me visit to give him his present.
Excuse after excuse came up. At this point I hadn't seen him for two years.
I had to insist on bringing his present round and just seeing him at least, on the doorstep.
So he relented, reluctantly. Bear in mind he hadn't seen me for two years either, and here's me having to push him into it.

This was all to do with the black and white thinking. He saw my concern for his health in the winter as - well goodness knows what! I don't know, he agreed at first, but  then later was persuaded otherwise.
My dad tends to adopt the views of the last person he's spoken with.
Its part of his PD make  up. I don't think he has a strong sense of self. He's really quite insecure. There are lots of PDs in my family who exploit this. During the pandemic they tended to be less careful, and so they saw him more than I did. Their influence grew stronger. My dad would insist he was being careful Rd covid then he'd tell me something he'd done with a PD which clearly showed he wasn't being careful.

Punishment for me, following this event? (Or non event) was to then keep me away, then when I pushed hard for a visit, the payoff was dad was meant to be me having him round for Christmas Day!
Again, if not the discard, then the enmeshment must be reinstated. A healthy, equal relationship was out of the question. This bungalow visit bordered on the  healthy and equal, which my dad hated!
The second thing out of his mouth after 'hello' and a mask -laden hug ( his request- yet he went out and ate in a restaurant over a month before, when cases were sky high and no one then knew how serious it could be for an elderly person to catch the new variant? Plus we tested!). Sigh

He saw me , said, hello, then said,
' I'm telling you now, ( steely gaze) I'm coming to you for Christmas Day!'

I spluttered and laughed out loud,( so pleased I reacted from my gut like this!) and replied.
'Dad, it's March!'
Didn't promise anything. Changed the topic .
This request to you for no more holidays  is along these lines. You set a boundary and I did. Both of us acted normally in response to abnormal behaviour. You got pressure to resume enmeshment. I got a devalue, discard. 
There's not a darn thing they can do about calmly ignoring these petulant, flailing attempts to control us. 
I'm  lucky that I have a non pd cousin who I've realised is a safe person to talk with about dad. She agreed that dad was being unfair. That was a lightbulb moment for me. She advised that I tell dad how felt about other family being allowed to visit,  yet not me. Sounds obvious, but I really couldn't see that this path was open to me. We get used to the discard.
I did tell him. Stunned silence, then couldn't argue with the logic of it.  It's a social norm of course, to allow all family in. I think I held a mirror up to the dysfunction. But  first I had to see if for what it was- and my cousin helped me do that. I know maybe you haven't got a family member, but there's us in here, we all understand.
Tell dad and repeat, calmly and factually, that holidays are an important and essential part of life for you and your family. Times change and families go  away on trips and offering go abroad these days. (social norm mirror time).  It's a true fact, that you take holidays. It's set in stone. Non negotiable.
If any ranting continues, just end the call calmly, telling him you will talk to him another time.
Self -care is so important, and it has nothing at all to do with selfishness.  I try and do this more and more.  I find that when I start talking about my own health issues, workload etc,  phone calls with dad often end a lot earlier!  My dad doesn't want to talk about me!
I feel like your dad tries to discard you emotionally rather than physically. He wants you there as much as possible, but then he tends to be scathing and unpleasant.
Take what  you want from my ramblings, leave the rest! Just my two penneth worth!

[NarcKiddo]

Welcome back, p123. Hope you had a fab holiday.

Not surprised to see your dad is up to his old tricks. They never change. But as has been pointed out, he has no power over you unless you give it to him. If you don't want to lay down the law right now about the holidays, then a "We'll see" and changing the subject could be a non-committal way to kick the can down the road.

[p123]

Sorry this is long and I hope not hijacking. Sometimes when I start typing I can't stop! 

Your dad. He didn't want you to go on holiday, threw all sorts of tacks and nails under your tyres, to prevent you going. But you went 
Moreover, you went without any guilt or wringing of hands or telling him you would ring him all the time you were away etc. Well done for strengthening your boundaries with him.
They sense that. And when they do, they up their game.

My UNPDDAD  this year, trying to punish me for naysaying a big family meal for his birthday last winter.
This was due to covid cases being well on the rise. Other family members agreed with me. HE also agreed with me. One family member didn't, and she took him out to a busy restaurant anyway, then posted photos on Facebook. Made it look as if no one else had bothered with his birthday.
But then, when things improved regarding the health risks to dad, I got 'punished'. dad wouldn't then LET me visit to give him his present.
Excuse after excuse came up. At this point I hadn't seen him for two years.
I had to insist on bringing his present round and just seeing him at least, on the doorstep.
So he relented, reluctantly. Bear in mind he hadn't seen me for two years either, and here's me having to push him into it.

This was all to do with the black and white thinking. He saw my concern for his health in the winter as - well goodness knows what! I don't know, he agreed at first, but  then later was persuaded otherwise.
My dad tends to adopt the views of the last person he's spoken with.
Its part of his PD make  up. I don't think he has a strong sense of self. He's really quite insecure. There are lots of PDs in my family who exploit this. During the pandemic they tended to be less careful, and so they saw him more than I did. Their influence grew stronger. My dad would insist he was being careful Rd covid then he'd tell me something he'd done with a PD which clearly showed he wasn't being careful.

Punishment for me, following this event? (Or non event) was to then keep me away, then when I pushed hard for a visit, the payoff was dad was meant to be me having him round for Christmas Day!
Again, if not the discard, then the enmeshment must be reinstated. A healthy, equal relationship was out of the question. This bungalow visit bordered on the  healthy and equal, which my dad hated!
The second thing out of his mouth after 'hello' and a mask -laden hug ( his request- yet he went out and ate in a restaurant over a month before, when cases were sky high and no one then knew how serious it could be for an elderly person to catch the new variant? Plus we tested!). Sigh

He saw me , said, hello, then said,
' I'm telling you now, ( steely gaze) I'm coming to you for Christmas Day!'

I spluttered and laughed out loud,( so pleased I reacted from my gut like this!) and replied.
'Dad, it's March!'
Didn't promise anything. Changed the topic .
This request to you for no more holidays  is along these lines. You set a boundary and I did. Both of us acted normally in response to abnormal behaviour. You got pressure to resume enmeshment. I got a devalue, discard. 
There's not a darn thing they can do about calmly ignoring these petulant, flailing attempts to control us. 
I'm  lucky that I have a non pd cousin who I've realised is a safe person to talk with about dad. She agreed that dad was being unfair. That was a lightbulb moment for me. She advised that I tell dad how felt about other family being allowed to visit,  yet not me. Sounds obvious, but I really couldn't see that this path was open to me. We get used to the discard.
I did tell him. Stunned silence, then couldn't argue with the logic of it.  It's a social norm of course, to allow all family in. I think I held a mirror up to the dysfunction. But  first I had to see if for what it was- and my cousin helped me do that. I know maybe you haven't got a family member, but there's us in here, we all understand.
Tell dad and repeat, calmly and factually, that holidays are an important and essential part of life for you and your family. Times change and families go  away on trips and offering go abroad these days. (social norm mirror time).  It's a true fact, that you take holidays. It's set in stone. Non negotiable.
If any ranting continues, just end the call calmly, telling him you will talk to him another time.
Self -care is so important, and it has nothing at all to do with selfishness.  I try and do this more and more.  I find that when I start talking about my own health issues, workload etc,  phone calls with dad often end a lot earlier!  My dad doesn't want to talk about me!
I feel like your dad tries to discard you emotionally rather than physically. He wants you there as much as possible, but then he tends to be scathing and unpleasant.
Take what  you want from my ramblings, leave the rest! Just my two penneth worth!

Yeh as I've always said you're Dad and mine are similar.....

Hes tried the blunt approach in the past. The THIS IS HAPPENING statement like you got. I ignore him and it works. He tends to try it on then back down.

I remember once he was in hospital. He decreed that I should visit on x day. Not happening. Wife was working, I had the kids etc. no chance - and it was 45 mins drive away. He DEMANDED that I sort something out and he'd see me next day. Of course, I didn't go. Visited him a few days later and he didnt even mention the planned visit. His ploy failed and he doesnt want to rock the boat now for no reason, move onto the next one - he does this ALL the time.

[p123]

Welcome back, p123. Hope you had a fab holiday.

Not surprised to see your dad is up to his old tricks. They never change. But as has been pointed out, he has no power over you unless you give it to him. If you don't want to lay down the law right now about the holidays, then a "We'll see" and changing the subject could be a non-committal way to kick the can down the road.

I always tell him now that I have no plans to be the richest man in the graveyard (or 2nd richest behind him).

And that my kids aren't going to remember their childhood and say "Dad worked really hard and earned loads of money"

Looking back, guess what I remember from my childhood?