Reading Emotional Blackmail

[Sojourner17]

In a previous thread I wrote someone mentioned a book called "Emotional Blackmail". I'm almost through it and can see a lot of what the author writes about in my relationship with my mom. 

I think I have a lot of work to do in regards to building up stronger character within myself.  While I think the authors suggestions and ideas are good ones I'm stuck in my thinking that they won't work with my mom and the realization within myself in saying this ... that they won't work... is I am too tired to even try to implement them.  Right now... tonight.... As I write this... I don't WANT to talk it out with my mom.... Because what's the point?  She's not going to do anything different.  I'm going to have to do the work of holding to boundaries, constantly reinforcing the line and the thought of doing that right now is just plain exhausting. 

I've spent some time reading posts on here and so many times I think "I haven't had it that bad in comparison to some others on here... what the heck is wrong with me that I can't hold my line/boundary?  Then I remember that while I haven't had anything too egregious I have had almost 30 years of "little" and "medium" sized things.  It may not have been outright criminal abuse. But it's been a slow boil with brief cool offs and an ongoing cycle of things and I just can't continue on/in it.  I'm exhausted and the person/people that most people get their support from are the ones that I can't seem to get in a right relationship with. 
 
I want to heal and grow in strength of character and courage.  I'm just too exhausted to do that work PLUS do the work of holding boundaries with my mom. 
Btw... it's been radio silence for just over a week since I called and let her know we couldn't come for a visit,  so I'm exhausted... AND uncomfortable. 

[easterncappy]

Yep... more and more I realize that "trying to work it out" with a PD results in no benefit for me. My husband has been "trying to work it out" with his PD mom for years and she's barely changed, back-pedaled beyond her starting point a couple of times, and every interaction between them leaves him uncomfortable and sad for days... but she feels great because she gets access to him and gets to pretend she's making real changes. So if you and I keep trying to convince our PD parents that they behaved poorly towards us, or even if they miraculously realize it themselves, we'd still be putting in the majority of the effort, we'd still be tired and uncomfortable, and it'd all be for their benefit. If the parent/child relationship wasn't viewed as so sacred in our culture and if it wasn't programmed into our DNA to care what our parents think, none of us would ever entertain relationships with people who act like this, no matter the "boundaries" (should go without saying that boundaries don't need to come up 10 times every visit with normal people - non-PD people don't need to be reminded multiple times in a row to treat you like you're human).

[notrightinthehead]

I have come to realize that it's the fog and my determination to pretend that I can have a normal, loving relationship with the PDs in my life that exhausts me so much. The lying to myself that the relationship can be loving, supportive and authentic. Every time I get to some clarity and accept that I have no control over it, I feel lighter for a while.

[square]

I just want to say that I love Susan Forward, author of Emotional Blackmail, but that book is I think from the 90s. I think there is a lot valuable in there but if she suggests confrontation (I don't remember) I'd say it was outdated advice.

In her book Toxic Parents, she describes a method of confrontation, but it's clear that the purpose is not to change the toxic parent or enabler, but to reclaim your truth. And she frames it as quite optional.

Anyway, I just wanted to put the book in perspective as valuable but probably not fully in line with current thinking.

[Sojourner17]

Square,  I will go back and look at how she words confrontation.  I think it is in line with the speaking truth.  She speaks about using humour, bargaining (kind of like striking a deal, I will do this if you do that and holding that to them but not in a holding it against them or keeping score type of way) and a few other tactics. 

Notrightinthehead.... Yes,  thinking that if I just do such and such the relationship will be better, mom will be better, I will be happier etc does come into play. 
I think right now I'm dealing with the thoughts of futility of even TRYING to talk with her about "when you say/do this... I feel this.  I'd like to have a good relationship... I'm sorry you feel that way but it's still a no". That exhausts me.  Seeing the road ahead filled with statements like that and knowing that things won't change. 
Maybe it's the stage of life I'm in with my own family and our childrens developmental stages.  I look at some of their behaviours and the character formation we are trying to instil.  I look at the boundaries we are setting and teaching them... I know they are going to change and hopefully grow for the better.  I have hope.

With my relationship with my mom I've lost hope for change.  I know intellectually that it's not my job to train my moms character but my body and emotions haven't caught up to that truth. Maybe this is me getting closer to acceptance that I cannot change this?

Easterncappy, I remember a few years ago my parents were working with a mediator regarding their relationship with my youngest sister.  He told me that he was just trying to help my parents not dig themselves too deep in a hole and that a lot of the progress/ steps forward was quickly followed by two steps back.  I look at the past four years since I met with him.  The only thing that has kept my relationship with my parents somewhat intact is the physical distance between us.  I've said to my husband more than once that just when I think the relationship has gotten a bit better things flip and the pattern/cycle starts again. 

Maybe I should just be greatful that I'm starting to realize there is a pattern and the part I play in it.   

[moglow]

Sojourner, part of could be the realization that this isn't just this time or one instance or even just with you, it's the familiarity of it all and truly is a lifetime of it. No matter your [my] response, nothing changed. Groundhog day over and over. If anything it seems to me that mine dug down deeper into the chaos as she hit those walls of No from people. She truly seemed to think that if she kept pushing the crazy others would eventually just give in. After all, they/we always had until slowly those people fell off, died off or just went away.

I've tried talking with mine, voicing it in a way that I would find acceptable. You know calm and not as a confrontational issue, "It's hurtful to me you say/do that. Maybe you you don't mean it that way but it hurts me." She got all mocking and sarcastic and nasty about it and later went OFF, lost her shit and kept on losing it. Mount Vesuvius on the phone and hung up on me, then refused to answer or return my calls. I found out later she couldn't answer because she was calling God and everybody to tell them about how I'd attacked her. Wait what? I'd made a statement, that it hurts me when she says certain things, that I feel "less than" and lacking in some way. I attacked no one.

But I'd given her ammunition by admitting how it hurt me - she then started repeatedly calling me at work, leaving voicemails that would blister paint. I was listening to one and a coworker came in "That's your mother??" From that point my phone was transferred to the front desk and I was not available for calls, in a meeting, out of the office etc. I went through our employee assistance plan and found a therapist who told me about BPD and gave me plenty of reading assignments. So many pieces started falling into place, but still. That was 20 years ago now.

I kept trying though - to reach her, to pretend, to ignore the demeaning comments and outright insults, the unfounded accusations and delusional paranoid rants. Layers and layers of incidents that I just couldn't ignore or make right on any level, until something snapped. I'd tried everything I knew and many she'd demanded - and nothing. She's just a bully and determined to be mad and run over me at any cost. So be it. I don't like it but I've accepted that's who she's chosen to be. And I've chosen to severely limit my exposure to it because I want no part of that ugliness and spite.

As I said, it's taken me a long time to get here, where I can't and won't subject myself to it. I can't justify or explain any of her treatment of me. I've chosen to step away and keep on stepping, and I'm a better person for it. She was poisoning me.

[NarcKiddo]

If I read a book that advised me to talk it out with my mother, I would chuck it out of the window.  I even kick back against suggestions from my therapist that I consider the abuse my mother got from hers. Because feeling sorry for her will increase my vulnerability and I don't need that. Understanding why she might behave how she does is of intellectual interest but no emotional help at the stage I am currently at. I suggest you take what is helpful from the book ( I haven't read it ) and continue to read widely until you can work out what YOU need.

[moglow]

NarcKiddo you make a good point. Understanding why they are the way they are is all well and good, but when they refuse to address what they know is hurting others. When they take their anger out on innocent bysitters. When any and every little word, thought or deed is used to provoke or excuse the most ridiculous tantrums... What then? You can't talk through things by yourself! No hint of personal responsibility leaves us talking to walls.

[Cat of the Canals]

I want to heal and grow in strength of character and courage.  I'm just too exhausted to do that work PLUS do the work of holding boundaries with my mom. 
Btw... it's been radio silence for just over a week since I called and let her know we couldn't come for a visit,  so I'm exhausted... AND uncomfortable.

I think this is where VLC and NC ultimately comes from. Coupled with everything else, the notion that we have to put all of this extra work into protecting ourselves in an effort to maintain these relationships is truly exhausting. And that means that often times, the best choice we can make for ourselves is disengaging as much as possible.

Also remember that limiting contact is a boundary. I think it doesn't always feel that way because it's a "quiet" boundary: one we don't usually say out loud. But simply not taking her calls for the sake of your own mental health is very much a boundary.

[easterncappy]

NarcKiddo you make a good point. Understanding why they are the way they are is all well and good, but when they refuse to address what they know is hurting others. When they take their anger out on innocent bysitters. When any and every little word, thought or deed is used to provoke or excuse the most ridiculous tantrums... What then? You can't talk through things by yourself! No hint of personal responsibility leaves us talking to walls.

If I read a book that advised me to talk it out with my mother, I would chuck it out of the window.  I even kick back against suggestions from my therapist that I consider the abuse my mother got from hers. Because feeling sorry for her will increase my vulnerability and I don't need that. Understanding why she might behave how she does is of intellectual interest but no emotional help at the stage I am currently at. I suggest you take what is helpful from the book ( I haven't read it ) and continue to read widely until you can work out what YOU need.

If I ever got "too upset" by my dad's behavior (such as suggesting that it's a serious long-term issue that needs to be fixed and not forgotten by the next morning), my mom would cry to me about how I need to be understanding because his childhood was bad and his parents abused him. They looked at me like I kicked a puppy or something when I started reacting with "so what, he doesn't have to keep acting that way, he's been out of their house for 30 years". I always got DARVO'd if I thought his widdle chiwdhood didn't change the fact that he was ultimately responsible for his abusive, cruel behavior.

To me, this indicates that they know, on some level, that growing up being abused by your parents has long-term effects. Yet they still act the way they do. Ironically, that means it can't be blamed on a supposed rough childhood, because they're aware of the problem, refused to do anything about it, and chose to abuse their children too. It's just an excuse. We come here to talk about our bad childhoods so we can heal from them. Anytime it comes up from a PD parent, it's always an attempt at manipulating you.

"Being the bigger person" is only helpful when 1) you aren't dealing with a person who has a PD and 2) it isn't actively hurting you to "be the bigger person". So I discard any advice that involves sympathizing with their childhoods.

[Sojourner17]

Easterncappy,  my unpdm knows that being abused as a child has long term effects.  I ocilate between thinking she knows what she does is harmful and does it anyway because she's the parent and needs to put others in their place  and thinking she doesn't know it's harmful/doesn't realize it's abusive or wrong to treat others that way.  I type all that and then think... if others did the same to her she would call it abuse or hurtful or wrong.  There is such a double standard and it makes my head spin.

I remember confronting my mom and dad after there was an incident of violence between them and my younger sister that happened in-front of me and my kids.  Mom told me that I was an adult and could handle it and that my kids were too young and wouldn't remember what happened.  I was floored!  I can't remember what I said after that but it left me flabbergasted.  Talk about minimization!   

It makes my head spin because I'm held to another level regarding behaviour.  Anything less than what is deemed morally sound/behaviourally sound is met with accusations, or criticism (ie... if you treat your friends like you to ME no wonder they don't call you as much.  This was the most recent attack painted in an Im only doing this for your good, sojourner, and I'm risking you being upset with me for telling you so). 

I'm still going to finish the Emotional Blackmail book as it gives me more tools regarding hopefully catching on quicker to what is happening in my interactions with my mom, when or if they start up again. I don't think I will be able to sustain that type of interaction long term though.  I'm not sure I have the mental/emotional capacity to do it for however long it would be. I don't have enough faith in my abilities I guess.  But that could change in time as well.

[easterncappy]

Easterncappy,  my unpdm knows that being abused as a child has long term effects.  I ocilate between thinking she knows what she does is harmful and does it anyway because she's the parent and needs to put others in their place  and thinking she doesn't know it's harmful/doesn't realize it's abusive or wrong to treat others that way.  I type all that and then think... if others did the same to her she would call it abuse or hurtful or wrong.  There is such a double standard and it makes my head spin.

I remember confronting my mom and dad after there was an incident of violence between them and my younger sister that happened in-front of me and my kids.  Mom told me that I was an adult and could handle it and that my kids were too young and wouldn't remember what happened.  I was floored!  I can't remember what I said after that but it left me flabbergasted.  Talk about minimization!   

It makes my head spin because I'm held to another level regarding behaviour.  Anything less than what is deemed morally sound/behaviourally sound is met with accusations, or criticism (ie... if you treat your friends like you to ME no wonder they don't call you as much.  This was the most recent attack painted in an Im only doing this for your good, sojourner, and I'm risking you being upset with me for telling you so). 

I'm still going to finish the Emotional Blackmail book as it gives me more tools regarding hopefully catching on quicker to what is happening in my interactions with my mom, when or if they start up again. I don't think I will be able to sustain that type of interaction long term though.  I'm not sure I have the mental/emotional capacity to do it for however long it would be. I don't have enough faith in my abilities I guess.  But that could change in time as well.

My mom once told me that someone she knew was abused as a child by his stepfather. The stepfather made him sleep on the floor of the laundry room, which in our country, was almost always an addition to the house with no insulation, so extremely cold. "How could a woman let a man do that to her child? I'll never understand women who choose their husbands over their children!". I was floored. This was after I had my first light bulb moment about my parents being abusive. The lack of self-awareness was literally astonishing. My entire childhood was my mom choosing my dad over me, every single time that she could, making excuses for every terrible thing that he did to me, and finding a way to blame me for most of it.

Interestingly, my childhood was never an excuse for my behavior. When I was in elementary school, I started to have an anger problem - almost identical to how my dad acted, with his almost daily weapons grade temper tantrums, everything down to the things I'd say were exactly what he'd always say. Even as a 10 year old, I had the self-awareness to realize that this is wrong and I was able to mostly get a grip on it, but when I brought it up a couple of years later, she said "that's no excuse. You should have known better. You don't need to act like your dad does". So, a bad childhood is an excuse for a 50 year old man to misbehave, but not for an impressionable 10 year old who is just copying her parents. And she apparently can admit he has a problem when it's convenient for her... or maybe she didn't even realize that she did that, I don't know.

Susan Forward is great, but no one has all of the answers, not even the best therapist in the world. Even a genuinely well-meaning person can give you advice that isn't good for you. You still have to think for yourself. Personally, I think that maintaining any kind of relationship with PD parents will end poorly because they're like chimps with machine guns. They'll never have the brain functions necessary to have a healthy relationship with their adult children. They might be on their good behavior for a couple of weeks or months, but at their core, they're still the same. You need to walk on a hell of a lot of eggshells to merely survive an interaction with them. If that's worth it to you, then go for it. I'm starting to realize that it might not be worth it for me.