I see it now. It’s all triangulation and passive aggressive sniping.

[sunshine702]

So I called my Narc mom - needed to drive a distance and I figured it was a good way to get it out of the way and practice my Grey Rock banter.  Usually when I am driving I can keep up the idle chat and I don't get into topics I really care about. 

The usual bingo - her tea towels funny messages.  The weather. My brother's house so fabulous. How much she cooked when Narc source H was there - what a domestic martyr she is.    How much they have helped SG brother.  How wonderful they are for that. 

I usually talk about what my husband is cooking because WE like it and she can't compete on the cooking front with him.  He has been in fine dining restaurants  for his career for two decades.  Also I LOVE that he is not a domestic martyr about it.  We pick something fun - soup on a rainy weekend and think of a way to gourmet it.   

So I saw through her passive aggressive sniping!  I see it now.  Everything is a triangulation and a competition.  I used to take everything at face value.   You said you were to XYZ place I just think you went to XYZ place and wanted to tell me about it. I don't read into it.   Most normal people are just like that.  I will also remember the next time we talk and ask how XYZ place went? 

Not Narcs.  She was COMPETING and belittling me by telling me about her friend from Arizona ( this is the first I have heard of her). and how they went to a soup restaurant and how she shouldn't have taken her there because it was too loud .

I realized — This is a snipe about the Italian place she agreed too that had live music when she was here.   Pearls before swine.  You guys were right!!  Anything I /suggested would be wrong even if she agreed to it.  It would be put in the bag to snipe back later. 

I see it clearly now.  Should I start lying to her?  Telling her the opposite of my feelings? 
Oh I hated that place when I loved it?  Or Applebees - sure my favorite spot!  Lol. Now my husband thinks I am reading too much into the conversation and it had nothing to do without choice for dinner.  And it might not of.  I am just spent my whole like being competed with - when I really did not want to be!!  Uhug - out of the triangle!  A cigar is just a cigar

[easterncappy]

I'm curious - what do you mean by "domestic martyr"?

I've also noticed that my mom has a weirdly competitive way of telling me about things. Ever since I moved out and started distancing myself, she's gotten really strangely attached to a woman who I suspect has a PD herself. They're always doing something together, going somewhere together, and my mom is always telling me about it. I could never quite put my finger on it but it just didn't sound like anyone else I know telling me about doing something fun with a friend. I got the vibe that she was bragging or trying to make me jealous or something, but I couldn't tell you what tipped me off. It's just odd behavior.

I usually just let mine talk, though. I tell her very little about my life now. Yet she still finds things to one-up me about. I don't think she's realized that I'm not playing the game with her. I don't care.

If your husband doesn't have experience playing 4D chess with PD relatives, of course it seems like you're reading too much into it. He doesn't mean anything by that. I think it takes growing up with the constant power plays and mind games to even be aware of the fact that some people are just like that. Some people literally can't tell you about what they had for breakfast without an agenda behind it. It's really sad.

[sunshine702]

I hated all things cooking for two decades because of my mom and her "cooking martyr woe is me speeches."  It was SUCH a burden to make things for us.  Planning dinner.  Su h a Heavy load!  And even after I moved out I would hear about "I don't know what's for dinner?"  Violins playing.  I would always straight forward ask well what are you hungry for?  That wasn't the point
I ate take out or fast cafe food or heated a few things up.  I wanted zero fuss about food when I left home.   It was not until my husband did I feel food could be FUN, seasonal, what was on sale at the grocery store or  what you had been craving.  It didn't have to be dripping in guilt.

Yeah I could sort of tell it was a passive aggressive conversation when she bragged how much cooking she did for H.  That macaroni and cheese was her favorite dish.  How she was flying out and she had better start it.   It used to be mine too btw. 

I just don't want to compete with her.  You like your lipgloss I like mine - but that isn't the way she is.  Hers is Channel she got it from Nordstrom's - it's expensive and correct. Yes there is a I should admire it and be jealous of her and her element to it all.  It's exhausting.  Maybe the soup place was just loud but I sorta sense it was about the place we ate at.  It was super loud which I loved because we could barely talk. 

Sigh. 

Well this whole thing has opened up better communication with my husband and I.  He wants to be taken STRAIGHT UP.  If he asks why? It is because he wants to know why we should or should not do the thing?  Just an honest question.  Whereas my mother a why is WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER SUCh A THING?  Complete judgement.

[NarcKiddo]

Yeah, my mother has taken a later life interest in cooking. She used to hate it - taught me the absolute bare minimum when I was a kid. I knew how to make a salad and heat up some stuff in a pan and that was about it. Now she takes a lot of trouble over feeding herself and my father. She does cook nicely, but boy do we hear about it every time we have a meal.

In reply to the OP, though, I don't find there is any point in saying the opposite of what we actually think. My aim is simply to be as utterly boring as possible. If she wants praise I just go along with it, regardless of what I think. If she comments on something I will just smile and nod and be non-committal. If she asks what I am doing I say something like "oh, nothing special. Just the usual." If we have gone on a trip and she asks how it went I tell her the bare minimum, and in a boring way. Like a bad tourist guide. I've just come back from a trip away and anticipate saying something like "Yeah, I went shopping in York. The weather was nice. I ate afternoon tea at Betty's (a famous tea room). I bought bath towels." All completely true but designed to bore her silly, so when I then ask about her she will launch into a tirade and I can just switch off.

[Liketheducks]

Domestic martyr....check.
Competitive mother dynamic....check
Constant one-up-man-ship.....check


Desire to hold all my feelings in a safe place, far away from mom.....check.   
Seriously, is there a manual that they're using??

The competitive/jealous mother daughter dynamic is something big in our relationship.     There was a time when IF I was able to achieve something remarkable....like hanglide........she'll have SOMETHING to say about how she's done something similar or harder or totally dismiss it.        Once, my husband surprised me with a new to me car that I had been admiring.   I was surprised and thrilled.   Mom couldn't say, wow....how cool or isn't that nice.     All she could say was that it was likely that now I'd be carjacked.     My, then married, mother caught the bouquet at my wedding and made the 20 something groomsman put the garter on her in a grand show.    I don't feel like she's ever been proud or just happy for me.   It is always about her.      But, I guess that's why we're all here.

[easterncappy]

I hated all things cooking for two decades because of my mom and her "cooking martyr woe is me speeches."  It was SUCH a burden to make things for us.  Planning dinner.  Su h a Heavy load!  And even after I moved out I would hear about "I don't know what's for dinner?"  Violins playing.  I would always straight forward ask well what are you hungry for?  That wasn't the point
I ate take out or fast cafe food or heated a few things up.  I wanted zero fuss about food when I left home.   It was not until my husband did I feel food could be FUN, seasonal, what was on sale at the grocery store or  what you had been craving.  It didn't have to be dripping in guilt.

Yeah I could sort of tell it was a passive aggressive conversation when she bragged how much cooking she did for H.  That macaroni and cheese was her favorite dish.  How she was flying out and she had better start it.   It used to be mine too btw. 

I just don't want to compete with her.  You like your lipgloss I like mine - but that isn't the way she is.  Hers is Channel she got it from Nordstrom's - it's expensive and correct. Yes there is a I should admire it and be jealous of her and her element to it all.  It's exhausting.  Maybe the soup place was just loud but I sorta sense it was about the place we ate at.  It was super loud which I loved because we could barely talk. 

Sigh. 

Well this whole thing has opened up better communication with my husband and I.  He wants to be taken STRAIGHT UP.  If he asks why? It is because he wants to know why we should or should not do the thing?  Just an honest question.  Whereas my mother a why is WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER SUCh A THING?  Complete judgement.

That sounds like it's intended the same way my mom's attitude is, except she's more "real women have full-time jobs and do all of the domestic duties". She loves hearing praise about how much she's done around the house lately, or mean comments about women who don't do what she does. "Those terrible women serve their husbands chicken out of a bag instead of making it from scratch!", and so on. She once made fun of me for making a soup with canned vegetables in it, because a real woman would chop up fresh vegetables instead of this unhealthy canned crap! She later pretended it was a joke because I think she realized how insane she sounded.  A lot of her advice to me about boyfriends when I was younger included winning them over by cooking for them and doing their laundry, etc. because in her mind, that's where our worth is. She genuinely didn't understand that many men would find it very strange and off-putting if a woman they don't know that well started doing those things for them as if they were little boys.

My mom has taken out years long loans for cars that were way out of her budget just to "make everyone jealous". I don't think she realizes that most people want to find a good compromise between functionality and good price when buying a car, not "new, shiny, expensive, luxury at all costs". I also don't think she realizes that people do things like cooking, cleaning, etc. because they have to and not because it's a contest, and with food, you might as well make it tasty if you need to eat every day... my perspective on it is "someone has to do it". She also finds something wrong with nearly everyone else's cooking and will act like she's being forced to eat poison if a food someone else gives her isn't up to par with her standards.

The constant one-upping is so exhausting. There's no way to get it across to them that you aren't playing the game. And they pretend they aren't, either. If I ever tell my mom that I don't think something is a contest, she tells me "well I don't either!"... except, she does. They take "I don't care" as an indication that really, you are jealous. Everything. Is. A. Mind. Game. Makes me want to bash my head into a wall.

The competitive/jealous mother daughter dynamic is something big in our relationship.     There was a time when IF I was able to achieve something remarkable....like hanglide........she'll have SOMETHING to say about how she's done something similar or harder or totally dismiss it.        Once, my husband surprised me with a new to me car that I had been admiring.   I was surprised and thrilled.   Mom couldn't say, wow....how cool or isn't that nice.     All she could say was that it was likely that now I'd be carjacked.     My, then married, mother caught the bouquet at my wedding and made the 20 something groomsman put the garter on her in a grand show.    I don't feel like she's ever been proud or just happy for me.   It is always about her.      But, I guess that's why we're all here.

Me too. I feel silly complaining about it but never having heard a single genuine "I'm proud of you" or "congratulations" growing up did a number on my self-esteem. It was always "oh, that's all? Er, I knew you'd do it..." or something similar. Like a backhanded compliment. A major life event of mine was an excuse for her to get professional pictures of her in a nice red suit. And then she wonders why I got married in secret, lol.

[Cat of the Canals]

Now my husband thinks I am reading too much into the conversation and it had nothing to do without choice for dinner. 

It's hard for people outside the dynamic to see it, a lot of the time. PDs can be grandiose... and they can also be subtle. So subtle that unless you know all the background, you won't pick up on the fact that they are indirectly complaining or scolding or trying to rub your nose in something.

I agree with NarcKiddo that the best way to play it is Gray Rock and Medium Chill. You simply can't be bothered. You just don't care. Let your mother invent her little contests all she wants, and roll your eyes when it happens because it's so very predictable.

[sunshine702]

It's sad because we all experience ups and downs in life and major markers and life events are just not taken straight on.   The most painful time for me was when I was buying a condo in California.  This was a huge deal.  It was a lot of big life stuff and a lot of stress and all she could do was talk about my brother's rental house.  While very nice and in a nice area I had added pressures of ownership - I wanted advice (how to get a good mortgage rate, things to look out for). I did not want a competition!  I  ended up getting excellent life advice from perfect strangers at work. 

I never forgot that.  Yeah the dinner is a total Eyeroll.   You said you wanted to try it.  You chose it too bad.  And let's see if you can get this friendship to stick.  You have run off just about everyone. 

I tend to talk to her about the British Royal Family.  It is something I follow that is gossipy but has zero competition factor.  And is completely inconsequential.  Then I let her talk usually while picking up dog poop or driving. 

[Cat of the Canals]

This reminds me of PDmil's first visit after we moved to a new city. Some of her comments during the trip:

"I thought [new city] would be bigger."
"I thought [new city] would be nicer."
"That house down the street is much bigger than yours."
"We drove around your neighborhood and noticed that most of the houses are definitely bigger than yours."

[olivegirl]

Oh Cat, I hear you about the narc parents' biting comments,

Mine would say when I'd host them in my house with a contemptuous air:

"Must be nice to have a new kitchen appliance."
"Must be nice to have a flower garden."

Gee Mom, thanks for being happy for me.  Yeah the flowers bring me a bit of joy. 

[Cat of the Canals]

Oh Cat, I hear you about the narc parents' biting comments,

Mine would say when I'd host them in my house with a contemptuous air:

"Must be nice to have a new kitchen appliance."
"Must be nice to have a flower garden."

Gee Mom, thanks for being happy for me.  Yeah the flowers bring me a bit of joy.

PDmil has this attitude, too, but only expresses it behind your back. She was bitter when her brother was remodeling his house and put in "CHERRY FLOORS." Or when her in-laws bought "ALL NEW APPLIANCES FOR THEIR KITCHEN."

The comments about our house were easy to laugh off because 1. I'm not trying to impress her (or anyone else). 2. She's wrong. There are strict guidelines in our HOA, so roughly 50% of the houses are almost the same square footage. 40% or so are smaller. 10% are bigger. But whatever she wants to tell herself.