Family vacations — stress-inducing but... not a problem for the kids?

IsleOfSong · November 26, 2022, 05:50:22 PM

I'm struggling with a bit of self-doubt at the moment.... my wife has brought up the subject of going on a family vacation next year with our two kids (who will be 19 and 16 next summer). While we have gone to some terrific places together (South America, Europe, Canadian Rockies, Costa Rica) in recent years, each trip has had its share of bickering and arguments between my uPDw and one or both of the kids (and occasionally with me, though I push back on the nonsense so she's much more careful with me).

Still, I REALLY dislike the tense atmospheres I've had to endure on these trips, and I resent the MANY side conversations I've had to have with the kids when Mom has stormed off in a huff when she didn't get her way.

So now, like clockwork, she's brought up summer travel yet again. I've talked to each of my kids separately to gauge their interest, and it's interesting... the older one, my daughter, seems unfazed by the possibility of discord on the trip, seeing the opportunity to travel as bigger than the issues that come up on our trips. And my son, who was positively miserable for a good chunk of our trip to Costa Rica last year, acknowledged that he "had a great time" doing some things there. I reminded him that he also spent a lot of time venting miserably to me, pointing out that in Costa Rica he said to me: "This happens on every trip — Mom gets mad and stops talking to us, and we're stuck with her thousands of miles from home." He agreed that it's a problem and would prefer not to do another trip in general, but he also knows he doesn't get a whole lot of say on these things.

So, maybe I'm making too big a deal of my wife's toddler-esque hissy fits when we travel? And maybe I look like the never-happy parent by pointing out the pouty, argument-laden, silent-treatment-heavy reality of our past trips with her? I want to experience a stress-free vacation just once. But in talking with my kids, I feel like the only one who has a serious problem with it all. I mean, for them, it's all they've ever known, having a mother who loses her cool constantly. I just want to enjoy my vacation time!

11JB68 · November 26, 2022, 11:33:23 PM

I can relate to the two sides to this. If you are stuck in a relationship with a pwpd sometimes it's hard to choose between the stress of trying to do normal fun stuff, vs just avoiding the stress. Dealing with something similar now in that going out with friends with updh always ends with an hour or more of his complaints.
I dealt with similar issues with family trips. I think my son and I both felt the trips were worth it. Deal with the behavior at home or deal with it away.... at least you get a change of scenery

SonofThunder · November 27, 2022, 12:57:53 AM

Hi IsleOfSong,

I can also relate to the two-sides that 11JB68 shared. I had older kids when i became aware of PD's, coming out of that F.O.G. and becoming very aware of my PDw's traits.

A: have you ever shorter/smaller vacationed with a child/your older kids without your wife?

B: has your wife ever shorter/smaller vacationed with a child/your older kids without you?

If yes to either of those, did your child/children comment to you regarding a difference vs traveling all together?

*Tip: if you want to experience A, i recommend promoting B (a deserved "mom and kids trip") to completion first. Harder for the PD to argue the same experience for a deserving dad.

Also, a cruise is a very unique traveling mode with a PD, as the ship itself is both the vacation and also the hotel, so its easy for the kids (and you lol) to safely and securely dip out when your PDw starts bickering. Also, my PDw uses time as a control method and especially drama-creative on vacation. Therefore flights, hotels, tight time schedules around destinations away from a hotel, Uber plans etc., are all time-control areas that my PDw used to create drama, chaos and frustration as the kids became bored and schedules became very tight. BUT...on a cruise, we all just simply left the room in her attempts at lengthy self-preparation or other delays, and told her to notify us on the cruise-app when she was ready and we would rendezvous somewhere. The ship is filled with all sorts of constant activity and kids had a grand time on their own in that safe environment.

I also stated at the beginning that I was not doing excursions off the ship other than walking around in port, but that she and the kids were free to go on different excursions without me #boundaries. Lol the kids loved the boat SO much, they didn't even want to get off. Problems solved and the Captain did all the driving! 🤣

SoT

NarcKiddo · November 27, 2022, 06:41:04 AM

As you say, her behaviour and the family dynamics are all they have ever known. So from the kids' point of view, unless they are very much home birds, it doesn't make a whole heap of difference to them if she is playing up at home or away. It's not as if they are paying the bills, and of course the costs just add a layer of irritation to you since you are now paying extra to experience the same crap in a different place.

I don't know what the answer is. Although I totally endorse the comments made by SoT about cruises.

IsleOfSong · November 27, 2022, 12:07:12 PM

Quote from: NarcKiddo on November 27, 2022, 06:41:04 AMSo from the kids' point of view, unless they are very much home birds, it doesn't make a whole heap of difference to them if she is playing up at home or away.

I suppose it comes down to this. It's the "cost of doing business" with their mom, who also happens to be the only mom they've ever known. I know this intellectually, but when I'm making the case to my kids that maybe it isn't such a good idea to willingly enter the minefield of yet another trip, and they respond that they "don't care" about the bad behavior and that they "had a great time" despite all the hostility and sulking, it's hard to reconcile it all. I feel like I look like the crazy naysayer.

And SoT, the cruise thing makes sense, but we don't really have any interest in a cruise — despite the fact that they have so many things prearranged to make the travel much easier. In fact, my wife's biggest argument with my son on last year's trip was at an all-inclusive resort we never left for four days, so the stress levels should have been virtually nonexistent (as they would be on a cruise). And yet...

SonofThunder · November 27, 2022, 03:16:19 PM

Quote from: IsleOfSong on November 27, 2022, 12:07:12 PM
Quote from: NarcKiddo on November 27, 2022, 06:41:04 AMSo from the kids' point of view, unless they are very much home birds, it doesn't make a whole heap of difference to them if she is playing up at home or away.

I suppose it comes down to this. It's the "cost of doing business" with their mom, who also happens to be the only mom they've ever known. I know this intellectually, but when I'm making the case to my kids that maybe it isn't such a good idea to willingly enter the minefield of yet another trip, and they respond that they "don't care" about the bad behavior and that they "had a great time" despite all the hostility and sulking, it's hard to reconcile it all. I feel like I look like the crazy naysayer.

And SoT, the cruise thing makes sense, but we don't really have any interest in a cruise — despite the fact that they have so many things prearranged to make the travel much easier. In fact, my wife's biggest argument with my son on last year's trip was at an all-inclusive resort we never left for four days, so the stress levels should have been virtually nonexistent (as they would be on a cruise). And yet...

IsleOfSong,

Understand you aren't interested in cruising. To each his/her own. For clarity though, my cruise point was not made as a way for your wife's stress levels to be reduced, but for everyone else to be able to safely, securely and freely depart from her in her stressful moments. Its a #boundary thing.

Were your kids free to safely and securely run around the all-inclusive without their parents watchful eye or limitations on proximity from parents within the resort? If yes, maybe that contributed to: "...and they respond that they "don't care" about the bad behavior and that they "had a great time" despite all the hostility and sulking."?

On a past cruise, i have had seemingly an entire different vacation than my children, because most of their experiences other than mealtimes, were safely, securely and freely away from their parents.

SoT

IsleOfSong · November 27, 2022, 08:51:36 PM

Quote from: SonofThunder on November 27, 2022, 03:16:19 PMWere your kids free to safely and securely run around the all-inclusive without their parents watchful eye or limitations on proximity from parents within the resort? If yes, maybe that contributed to: "...and they respond that they "don't care" about the bad behavior and that they "had a great time" despite all the hostility and sulking."?

True enough, they had a fair amount of autonomy, though her blowup at our son was shortly before a family dinner (she went nuts about the clothes he had packed and was wearing to dinner), so there was no real escape for him that night. The next day, while she was still fuming and sulking, he and his sister were free to do their own thing for the most part.

I have "coached him up" by telling him privately that he's a great kid despite what he hears and feels from his mom, and that when he's old enough, he can make his parents' dysfunction a tiny speck in as great a life as he can make for himself. I will continue to tell him as much.