Weaponized Incompetence

Started by Pepin, November 21, 2022, 07:09:55 PM

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Pepin

Sheesh!  I have been coming across this term more and more and it has been incredibly triggering for me...which is why I am here writing about it.  Had I known about this term years ago, it could have had a significant impact on my understanding of PDs, particularly the CN.  Before terming MIL with the term CN, I thought she was just a confused person who needed help with certain things.  And I wasn't really bothered about her behavior until I realized there was a pattern around specific tasks and also the times when she needed help.  Her behavior became rather calculated and I soon realized that she was acting waify for attention purposes and also to demand that others give up their time to do things that she didn't want to do.  She definitely had an agenda - specifically to separate DH and I by getting him to align with her while she acted helpless.  She knew exactly what she was doing.  I don't think I will ever be able to forget the look in her eyes that she locked on me while handing DH her mail to sort through directly from her mailbox as we were coming into her home for a visit.  It was as if to say: your husband is mine.

I know I have talked in length about CN MIL over the years and her calculated helplessness.  It pains me incredibly that it was difficult for other people (and family members) to understand what she was doing. 

I'll never be able to forget the anger DH displayed in not being able to help his mother - because she didn't want to be helped: she wanted him to waste his time and be angry rather than not seeing him at all.  Her manufactured cries for help were off the charts absurd and DH fell for just about each and every one.  The older she got, the harder her games were to play.  Sure, it was easy to manipulate a young DH and much harder as DH grew older and wiser.  I think when she ran out of games to play, her time on this earth also ran out.  Her leaving us all behind was both abrupt and outrageous at the same time.  She had no cards left to play...

SonofThunder

#1
Hi Pepin,

You wrote:  "Had I known about this term years ago, it could have had a significant impact on my understanding of PDs, particularly the CN.  Before terming MIL with the term CN, I thought she was just a confused person who needed help with certain things.  And I wasn't really bothered about her behavior until...."

Since you have experience with CN MIL on both time-sides of your PD knowledge, what is your opinion on the "significant impact" you mentioned?   Assuming that is a positive comment, what do you believe would have been the impacts that your advanced knowledge would have benefitted you and/or DH? 

Also, I like the term for its play on the able manufacturing of inability; the competent weaponization of incompetence.  It's a brilliantly crafted strategy on behalf of a PD, because it checks SO many emotional, physical, situational, financial and other manipulative motive boxes for the PD.  Its especially useful when deployed on a golden child; whose emotional framework has been sculpted over many years to fill the supply role for the PD parent. 

Such incredible selfish predation of ones own child, and you were obviously a obstacle that threatened her continuous hunger for supply from your DH. 

So sorry that its so very triggering. 

SoT
Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

bloomie

Quote from: PepinBefore terming MIL with the term CN, I thought she was just a confused person who needed help with certain things.  And I wasn't really bothered about her behavior until I realized there was a pattern around specific tasks and also the times when she needed help.  Her behavior became rather calculated and I soon realized that she was acting waify for attention purposes and also to demand that others give up their time to do things that she didn't want to do.  She definitely had an agenda - specifically to separate DH and I by getting him to align with her while she acted helpless.  She knew exactly what she was doing.  I don't think I will ever be able to forget the look in her eyes that she locked on me while handing DH her mail to sort through directly from her mailbox as we were coming into her home for a visit.  It was as if to say: your husband is mine.

Quote from: PepinI'll never be able to forget the anger DH displayed in not being able to help his mother - because she didn't want to be helped: she wanted him to waste his time and be angry rather than not seeing him at all.

Pepin - coming into a new family dynamic when we marry, I believe many of us here had no context for an atmosphere where so much was not what it seemed. It would've been of great help to have the wisdom to discern the intent of others and the rivalrous posture of others and identify a mil pretending to be incompetent to control and invade their adult child's lives even when not present.

Quote from: SonofThunderthe competent weaponization of incompetence. It's a brilliantly crafted strategy on behalf of a PD, because it checks SO many emotional, physical, situational, financial and other manipulative motive boxes for the PD.  Its especially useful when deployed on a golden child; whose emotional framework has been sculpted over many years to fill the supply role for the PD parent. 

Such incredible selfish predation of ones own child, and you were obviously a obstacle that threatened her continuous hunger for supply from your DH. 

Selfish predation - so accurate a discription - and the scorpion's sting of this is how plausible and believable, harmless even, the competent weaponized incompetence can seem from the outside looking in. A confused little lady. :no:

But, when you begin to understand what is happening, live with the way this can create division and strife in your marriage, it is as obvious as can be. I can sure understand how knowing this behavior was a 'thing' could've been a game changer. I am convinced that one of the things that keeps a person with covert N traits energized and going is the ability to 'dupe' others, and like you say, when there are no other cards to play, they move on one way or another.

Very painful, emotionally layered, pervasive covert behavior.

The most powerful people are peaceful people.

The truth will set you free if you believe it.

Pepin

Quote from: SonofThunder on November 21, 2022, 10:58:13 PM
Hi Pepin,

You wrote:  "Had I known about this term years ago, it could have had a significant impact on my understanding of PDs, particularly the CN.  Before terming MIL with the term CN, I thought she was just a confused person who needed help with certain things.  And I wasn't really bothered about her behavior until...."

Since you have experience with CN MIL on both time-sides of your PD knowledge, what is your opinion on the "significant impact" you mentioned?   Assuming that is a positive comment, what do you believe would have been the impacts that your advanced knowledge would have benefitted you and/or DH? 

Also, I like the term for its play on the able manufacturing of inability; the competent weaponization of incompetence.  It's a brilliantly crafted strategy on behalf of a PD, because it checks SO many emotional, physical, situational, financial and other manipulative motive boxes for the PD.  Its especially useful when deployed on a golden child; whose emotional framework has been sculpted over many years to fill the supply role for the PD parent. 

Such incredible selfish predation of ones own child, and you were obviously a obstacle that threatened her continuous hunger for supply from your DH. 

So sorry that its so very triggering. 

SoT

If anything, I would have asked more questions to both CN MIL and DH about CN MIL.  My younger self was afraid to rock the boat - but, looking back, and understanding where I am today after what happened, how could constant questioning have been any worse of an outcome than what happened?  If anything, it would have gotten things out on the table much sooner.  One example that has bothered me for years was this pesky ailment that she had - that she never sought treatment for.  This ailment would be brought up at the most annoying times when we would be in the middle of something together as a family and everyone would have to stop and wait for her - which meant that all eyes were on her.  Not a single person questioned it.  Was it an injury?  What happened?  Where does it hurt specifically and why have you not brought this up with your MD?

In hindsight, I did ask DH many questions and he brushed off many or made excuses.  I could have easily have asked some of these same questions to his siblings!  There was a period of time when DH lived far from his parents- how CN MIL manage?  Yeah, because she put on their grown up pants and took care of things, that's why.

It was also interesting the way DH's brother and wife kept their distance from all of this.  And when they visited, they stayed with CN MIL.  They took zero BS from CN MIL and held her accountable for every single waify thing.  With DH, his frustration with CN MIL was based on him trying to relate to her like she was an adult.  He somehow thought that after decades of being parentified, that she could finally have matured enough to actually behave like an adult.  Our children were held to higher standards than his mother - DH wouldn't allow them to get away with what his mother did.  It was embarrassing.

I just should have asked more questions rather than being quiet and compliant.  I was embarrassed, too being associated with her.  My friends know hardly a thing about CN MIL...she wasn't spoken about or introduced the way others have done with me with their parents. 

There were many, many misunderstandings over the years with CN MIL -- and all those situations could have benefited from more questioning and protocols in order to prevent the mess that ensued every single time.  And firmness...I needed to be more direct with her.   

Another pair of words that describe CN MIL's predatory behavior is cognitive empathy.  This was another major card in her arsenal that she played well when she wasn't being waify.  It was something that she played back to back with weaponized incompetence.  If she wasn't crying boo hoo, she was stepping in to look like a hero for her own person gain.  She sure demonstrated that she could indeed take care of others - but when it came to herself, she declined because otherwise, eyes would be off her. 


SonofThunder

#4
Hi Pepin,

Thanks for taking the time to field my question. I agree with what you wrote:

"how could constant questioning have been any worse of an outcome than what happened?  If anything, it would have gotten things out on the table much sooner."

I wonder if actually getting them "out on the table" would have been helpful or possibly cause CN MIL to feel challenged, threatened and exposed, causing her to amplify situational and emotional manipulation, attempting to drive an even larger self serving mom-wedge between her son and his wife.  My uNPDf would surely have pulled out all the manipulative stops on me.

And, even so (getting them out on the table), decades of repetitive experiences for your DH did not break through the barrier of understanding, connecting the years of dots and question an adult's inability to learn, even in the face of watching his own children learn, and witnessing his mother care for others, therefore fully capable. 

For me, hindsight can be a very frustrating experience, as I ask myself how I did not recognize the patterns that made no common sense.  Now with the fog lifted, I wonder how others who experience it as well, still fall for it!  I try not to pass judgement because I was manipulated in the same manner.  I'm sorry its been such a struggle for you having the fog lifted, yet cannot have your DH understand. 

I also like the cognitive empathy term and description. 

SoT
Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

wisingup

QuoteAnd I wasn't really bothered about her behavior until I realized there was a pattern around specific tasks and also the times when she needed help.  Her behavior became rather calculated and I soon realized that she was acting waify for attention purposes and also to demand that others give up their time to do things that she didn't want to do.

Oh, this dynamic is so familiar to me with my own uBPDm.  She acts helpless, then people step in to help her & she is so "grateful".  But here is what happens next in my experience:


  • That chore you offered to do once?  It's yours now for eternity
  • Now that that one is off her plate & out of her mind, here's a new thing she needs help with.  And - you guessed it - that one is yours now.
  • Any issues that arise with the tasks are your responsibility to solve
  • She will be upset if you suggest that she assist in any way
  • She will not be concerned if the tasks cause you stress or take up a great deal of time
  • Taking time off work or canceling a vacation to deal with her stuff should be something you do gladly
  • There will be a gleam of satisfaction in her eyes as she hands you the paperwork or whatever
  • Occasionally, if she's feeling in need of attention, she will "help" in a way that fouls things up & requires more work from you, then act waify if you get annoyed

I'm sorry you and DH dealt with this for years & I'm happy for you that you are free now.  I hope you both feel a weight lifted!

Call Me Cordelia

QuoteI think when she ran out of games to play, her time on this earth also ran out.  Her leaving us all behind was both abrupt and outrageous at the same time.  She had no cards left to play...

I really think this is a possibility. At least it once again meshes with my experience. On the other side of my family this time. My mother's uBPD mother ran out her money, ran out her supply sources, and just... died.

treesgrowslowly

Hi Pepin,

As SoT says, hindsight can be a really frustrating experience.

I have come to think of anger as a really important stage in recovery from PD abuse.

In reading this article about anger in survivors of abuse, they make the point that women often feel that we need to manage the relationships around us. We are socialized that way, in so many ways. The article talks about how this has the effect of teaching women to go silent instead of actually expressing our anger at an injustice, because we know it will rock the boat in our relationships / families.

It takes time to realize a MIL has a pattern of incompetent behaviours or pathologies / psychopathy. Try to give yourself some kindness for needing time back then.

In addition, I think that the DIL's 'natural' role in her IL system, is to defer to the MIL. The MILs seems to have a lot of control over the family relationships from what I've learned about DILs and MILs by analyzing my own experiences. You didn't have much power as a DIL to suggest change to these deep rooted dynamics that the MIL has cultivated with her children since their birth.

For years, I followed my 'natural' inclination to allow the MIL a lot of space to operate and treat us how she chose to treat us. It was only after years of relationship that I realized that things were not what they seemed. Had this been in a different setting, I really doubt it would have taken me years to see it.

I agree with SoT - had you spoken up earlier on in the marriage, the odds are good that your MIL would have escalated her behaviours in order to retain control (access to supply).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3361676/

This article describes 5 different types of anger they found that women might express after experiencing abuse. I would say that the list of 5 types of anger might also fit for those of us who witnessed emotional abuse such as the abuse you witnessed when your MIL was alive. It is not wrong to feel angry with someone who had an agenda - and as you said, that agenda was to cause problems in your marriage.

Which of us goes into a marriage, equipped with the arsenal of tools needed to deal with a MIL who doesn't respect us? We all hope for the best when we get married don't we? I feel for you as you work through these triggers right now. That feeling of hindsight being 20 / 20 is familiar to a lot of us here.

Trees

SonofThunder

#8
Another fine writing Trees!

I very much enjoyed the read of your reply and the article.  Two parts of the article jumped out at me. First, was the physiological affects measured over time regarding differences (on page 4) between adaptive and maladaptive anger.

I personally believe that the adaptive anger described, is what many of us (who are now removed from the fog) are doing on our path to healing, on our own, here at Out of the FOG and some with therapy. 

A great example, imo, of adaptive anger, is Pepin's writing in this thread, where she is now/has been fully aware of the offenses of CN MIL, and is proactively wrapping her mind fully around the understanding of the PD dynamics at play, knowing that it is 'weaponized incompetence', 'cognitive empathy' and other traits in the crafty and covert selfish predation of CN MIL, as CN MIL fed off of DH and manipulated both DH and Pepin in ways that protected CN MIL's ability to feed regularly.  Pepin can clearly determine that 'It was not me' and 'It was not DH' (both of which are the 3C's rule imo). 

Both Pepin and DH are victims of CN MIL's abuse. In my understanding of Pepin's writing, the maternal mother/son emotional connection, which CN MIL used to her great advantage in abuse (and now still effective even after her passing) is such a very tough, thick skin for DH to see out from within.  But Pepin's lens is so clearly focused on the truth and her full understanding of the dynamics at play. 

Obviously the article does not focus on the abuser in the study, who may/may not have a disorder, but rather on the expression or lack thereof of the abused women. 

With that last sentence stated, this paragraph from page 18 also jumped out at me, which in ways supports my previous question related to an earlier timeframe of getting the truth "out on the table".  Me personally, doing that would have caused both my PD's to double down on covert abuses because the drama triangle roles in play with PD's. 

——
Unsurprisingly, much of the angry emotion was evoked by the abusers' violations of their personhood and/or failure to protect them from harm. However, the anger was not necessarily ever directed toward the abusers face to face, nor do these data suggest that this would be desirable. Consistent across cases was failure of family members to validate abuse if it was disclosed.
——

In my experiences, and in my own toolbox training with MC and noJADE coupled with strong boundaries, my own experiences with both uNPDf and uPDstbx would agree with a excerpt from the above paragraph. 

...nor do these data suggest that this would be desirable. Consistent across cases was failure of family members to validate abuse if it was disclosed.

SoT
Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

Cat of the Canals

Quote from: wisingup on November 22, 2022, 07:17:23 PM
Oh, this dynamic is so familiar to me with my own uBPDm.  She acts helpless, then people step in to help her & she is so "grateful".  But here is what happens next in my experience:


  • That chore you offered to do once?  It's yours now for eternity
  • Now that that one is off her plate & out of her mind, here's a new thing she needs help with.  And - you guessed it - that one is yours now.
  • Any issues that arise with the tasks are your responsibility to solve
  • She will be upset if you suggest that she assist in any way
  • She will not be concerned if the tasks cause you stress or take up a great deal of time
  • Taking time off work or canceling a vacation to deal with her stuff should be something you do gladly
  • There will be a gleam of satisfaction in her eyes as she hands you the paperwork or whatever
  • Occasionally, if she's feeling in need of attention, she will "help" in a way that fouls things up & requires more work from you, then act waify if you get annoyed

Here's me, yet again, thinking, "At least PDmom doesn't do that." And then here's me remembering how my mother somehow suckered me into designing and managing TWO different websites for the non-profit groups she's involved in. (FOR YEARS! FOR FREE!) And it started out exactly how you described. The first request is just a little teensy favor I'm doing for her. Phrased like it's a one-time thing. Pretty pleeeeeease??? But if I do it once, I'm expected to do it again. And then also this and that, too? And, oh, do you know how to do XYZ? That wouldn't take you long to do, would it?

I have learned to be very, very careful when offering any kind of assistance these days. And I play dumb when it suits me. "Oh, I don't really know anything about that."

haribo_milchbaren

Oh yes, this one. It's disturbing to read all of these and be like "wow, it's not just STBX". In my case, recently it's the excuses to not use email for any communication regarding our separation and divorce. STBX used to be a teacher, and regularly brags about their high IQ, high grades in their degrees, but all of a sudden there are all sorts of excuses as to why they can't communicate by email (too taxing, their mild undiagnosed intellectual disability, etc). I have been going along with it so far but am starting to get really pissed off.

I have been working on learning how to set boundaries with people, but I've also discovered it's really difficult with PD people (as experienced with uPD parent). Actually may start a separate thread asking for advice on this.

wisingup

I think my uBPDm's fake incompetence is fueled by anxiety that she won't understand something or will do it wrong, but also a great deal of laziness that she can't be bothered to make some phone calls or do some research to figure it out.  Pepin - it sounds like your MIL had a different underlying reason for her incompetence - needing to be front and center with your DH.  Whatever the reason though, there is no concern about burdening others and even some satisfaction in getting others to jump when they say so.

Quoteall of a sudden there are all sorts of excuses as to why they can't communicate by email

As an aside, my mom called yesterday to wish me happy birthday.  I let it go to VM but it infuriated me for several reasons.  1) I've asked her not to contact me during my work day unless it is an emergency   2) I've asked her to communicate by text or email instead of by phone and  3) she called on the wrong day saying that she couldn't get her email to work on my actual birthday. :stars: 

Also, she has a gift for me but can't figure out how she will get it to me. (Um - Amazon?  Thanksgiving where she came to my house a week ago?  Christmas in a few weeks where I will see her again?)   Nope, it's a big problem that would best be solved by my making an hour round trip to her apartment.

Good grief - where is the self-awareness??

Pepin

Quote from: wisingup on December 02, 2022, 09:59:36 AM
Good grief - where is the self-awareness??

Exactly.  Their self awareness operates in a completely different circle, meaning they only have awareness for themselves...which I find to be incredibly sad.  My takeaway in this sort of way of being makes me glad that I am not like them.  Seems like such an unfulfilling way to live but that is what they do to keep going. 

blunk

Not sure if this is weaponized incompetence, exactly. With my bpdxh he would tell me that I was SO MUCH BETTER at xyz thing he didn't want to do. Usually it had something to do with the dogs...brushing, bathing, picking up poop, sometimes cleaning the house, or completing projects. And yet whatever the task, he would still tell me all of the ways I was doing it wrong. So infuriating!

wisingup

Blunk - I think you are exactly right.  This is a variation on it & one that men have used for ages - "women are so much better at ...childcare, housework, cooking."  But it's manipulation pure and simple.  And he told you that you were better at picking up dog poop?  Wow, that's rich.

p123

Oh jeez and I thought my Dad was the world champion!

I honestly think he gets a warm glow when he manipulates someone into doing something for him. Its not just me (I ignore him now), its friends (hes lost tons), neighbours (they hide from him).

His best one is "can you phone xyz I can't hear on the phone?". "Dad get a new hearing aid". "Oh I dont need one". (ie. I don't want to spend any money). 1000 times this conversation.
I found out the other day, he even got the lady who cleans his house to phone for him. All because he won't pay for a new hearing aid.

And don't get me started on the "Im in so much pain". "Are you taking the proper dose of painkillers like the doctor told you?" "Well....".

"So thats a no then. If you won't listen to the doctor, what do you expect me to do?" "Well my friend said you could get addicted....."

"Again Dad what does the DOCTOR say and what do you expect ME to do?" Silence. 2000 times for this one.

p123

Quote from: wisingup on December 05, 2022, 09:21:52 AM
Blunk - I think you are exactly right.  This is a variation on it & one that men have used for ages - "women are so much better at ...childcare, housework, cooking."  But it's manipulation pure and simple.  And he told you that you were better at picking up dog poop?  Wow, that's rich.

My Dad uses this one now. He got divorced and retired at 57 and got a new place. REFUSED to get a washing machine. "Its for women...."
Got his sister (older than him) get a bus, collect his washing every week FOR YEARS.... To be honest her fault for enabling him. I tried all ways to get him to not do that.

Eventually, his sister got too old and hes stuck now. So he asks me "Can you ask your wife to do my laundry?" Yep serious.
Because I don't live local only once I ever did it. I did it. Not exactly hard to chuck clothes in the washing machine. Took them back and he was appalled "YOU DID IT! Where was yout wife?"

The 1950s never ended in my Dads head......

Pepin

Quote from: blunk on December 05, 2022, 09:06:41 AM
Not sure if this is weaponized incompetence, exactly. With my bpdxh he would tell me that I was SO MUCH BETTER at xyz thing he didn't want to do. Usually it had something to do with the dogs...brushing, bathing, picking up poop, sometimes cleaning the house, or completing projects. And yet whatever the task, he would still tell me all of the ways I was doing it wrong. So infuriating!

Sounds like a variation to me and also something that CN MIL would employ against DH.  She would back herself into a corner claiming that she was too old or couldn't learn new things at her age.  She would suddenly announce that she didn't know how to do something anymore and give no reason other than I don't know.  Instructions for how to do things would be written down and she claimed that she couldn't read it. 

Quote from: p123 on December 05, 2022, 09:27:27 AM
The 1950s never ended in my Dads head......

Yeah, I see a lot in this, too.  There were a lot of things back then that women weren't allowed to do.  And I feel that CN MIL got stuck in that mentality whereas most women embraced the freedoms that they were now given that they hadn't had before.  But it was odd because she really didn't stick to traditional roles of what women used to do -- because FIL generally did all those, too.  The man was working all the time and also doing stuff on the weekend that she could have easily pitched in and done.  I think he just kept himself busy so he could lay low and then duck out when he needed space.  There was no way she could go after him and say that he sat around and did nothing....because that is kind of how she operated.  FIL was always reading the newspaper or whatever was laying around and she couldn't be bothered to do any sort of reading other than coupons.  She had so much time on her hands and just did nothing.

In the many years that I knew her, I really don't know much about what she did with herself.  I know she did some gardening, light cleaning maybe, -- everything else had to be done with FIL until he passed.  I think about all the things I have to do by myself or without help from DH -- things that just have to get done because no one else is there to do it that needs doing.  I just do them.  I don't sulk, whine, or ask others to do things for me unless I really, really need help -- and usually that is due to my lack of physical strength with really heavy things!  *sigh* And after FIL had passed, cue DH to be her next task master because Pepin can handle the stuff for the both of them.  She knew very well what I could do and it surely was a threat to her ego and also a stepping stone for her to swoop in and reclaim her dutiful son.   :violin:

easterncappy

My mom played the "I'm too old" card all of the time too. Her other greatest hits were "I'm not cut out for this technological world" or "I hate this technological world". My friends who are 15 years older than her are capable of everything she acted like was impossible for her. She was just lazy and thought she was too good to have to do these things. I had her utility bills in my name and paid them every month (albeit from her card) until shortly before I went NC, because I was a gullible spineless idiot back then. She acted like it was genuinely impossible for her to use a phone app to pay the power bill. I'm ashamed to admit I was her personal driver for most of my early 20's because she just didn't want to do it and I felt so guilty that I did it for her. When she started driving again, her only regret was for herself and her own feelings about it - she showed no remorse about the fact that I spent about 5 years sacrificing good jobs, friendships, college opportunities, etc. because she was too good to drive a car and emotionally backed me into a corner where I was worried I'd be responsible for her suicide (among other things) if I didn't do it.

My dad was a lot more "high and mighty" about it. He appeared to genuinely think he was above putting any effort into anything if he had an underling (me) to do it for him. He's lived in the US for over two decades and is barely conversational in English. He'd roll his eyes if I told him that it's his responsibility to learn it to a reasonable extent if he's going to live here. I had to do everything for them - emails, phone calls, packets of immigration paperwork, everything. I hate hearing about how "it's hard for older immigrants to learn another language" - I've genuinely never met any other immigrants in their age group that were quite as helpless and unwilling to improve their situation as these two.

I'm sure they figured it out after I went NC. Or maybe found someone else to do it for them.

Pepin

Quote from: easterncappy on December 09, 2022, 12:44:43 PM
My mom played the "I'm too old" card all of the time too. Her other greatest hits were "I'm not cut out for this technological world" or "I hate this technological world". My friends who are 15 years older than her are capable of everything she acted like was impossible for her. She was just lazy and thought she was too good to have to do these things. I had her utility bills in my name and paid them every month (albeit from her card) until shortly before I went NC, because I was a gullible spineless idiot back then. She acted like it was genuinely impossible for her to use a phone app to pay the power bill. I'm ashamed to admit I was her personal driver for most of my early 20's because she just didn't want to do it and I felt so guilty that I did it for her. When she started driving again, her only regret was for herself and her own feelings about it - she showed no remorse about the fact that I spent about 5 years sacrificing good jobs, friendships, college opportunities, etc. because she was too good to drive a car and emotionally backed me into a corner where I was worried I'd be responsible for her suicide (among other things) if I didn't do it.

My dad was a lot more "high and mighty" about it. He appeared to genuinely think he was above putting any effort into anything if he had an underling (me) to do it for him. He's lived in the US for over two decades and is barely conversational in English. He'd roll his eyes if I told him that it's his responsibility to learn it to a reasonable extent if he's going to live here. I had to do everything for them - emails, phone calls, packets of immigration paperwork, everything. I hate hearing about how "it's hard for older immigrants to learn another language" - I've genuinely never met any other immigrants in their age group that were quite as helpless and unwilling to improve their situation as these two.

I'm sure they figured it out after I went NC. Or maybe found someone else to do it for them.

OMG.  I have so much to say about this.  I am also the daughter of an immigrant father.  He's been here for decades and knows the English language well because there was no one else to converse with.  In order to survive he had to learn English.  But every now and then he would play the helpless card when it came to written correspondence.  Grammar mistakes would be explained to him and he would continue to make mistakes.  I told him that I could no longer help him with his correspondence and that what he presented to others was what it was.  That made him angry because he knew that I knew that he was not listening to me in order to get me to do his work.

CN MIL -- worse actually.  Seemed like she learned English reasonably well but refused to practice and chose to continue talking in her native language instead.  She could have practiced with all the grandkids  when they were young.  She had copious amounts of people around her to converse with English -- and she chose not to (for decades) because it allowed her to remain manipulative.  This is why she only wanted DH around her.  If she couldn't speak English or read it, then how was she going to survive?  And DH let her get away with it with excuse after excuse.  He enabled her by not forcing her to speak in English.  As I stated above, as the daughter of an immigrant, this behavior makes me angry.  There is zero excuse.  None.

Reading what you wrote about your mom - I wish DH could see it your way.  He was manipulated into doing everything you describe - even the technology struggles.  I actually have felt for quite some time that DH has missed out on better/rewarding employment and overall personal health because of CN MIL.  We lived near her.  Too near.  Our area was not the right place for DH or myself to live for our type of employment needs.  It was a mistake to move closer to CN MIL but DH insisted it was the best thing to do.  He honestly believed that CN MIL and FIL would be helpful when we started a family.....turns out they were the ones needing help.  That totally backfired.  My children grew up watching their dad put his mother before them.

I am sorry that you have had to suffer similar.  I'm just shaking my head for you -- as well as myself.  If only my DH could see things like you did.  Don't know if he ever will...