MIL escalating, DH less foggy than ever

[mustard_seed]

Hi friends--I'm here to give an update on my IL situation and to say thank you for the support that is helping me make real change in my life. It's been nine months since I went NC with my toxic in-laws. MIL has continued to badger my husband about me. Mostly, that I need to apologize, attend family therapy, make an appearance, fix things. I've stayed firm in NC.

My husband has refused to get into circular conversations with his mother about this, but has kept calling her, having dinner with her once a month, and trying to have a relationship with her. (FIL largely behind the scenes these days.) When my husband offered to go to family therapy with his parents, MIL declined and said there was no point since I wasn't going. (Hilltop if you're still around--you totally called it on this one.)

It seems MIL has had it with not getting her way, though. She's escalating. At a recent dinner, she told my husband that FIL thinks H is on hard drugs--that's the only way to explain his behavioral changes this year.  I love how she spoke for FIL, who wasn't there to admit or deny that he ever said this. H has been largely nonreactive to all forms of abuse this year, but he did react to this one and say that FIL could go kick rocks (Ok, maybe that's not exactly the phrase he used). We're not sure whether this is bait (to get a reaction from H) or the beginnings of a smear campaign.

But the most amazing thing is this: my husband has more clarity than ever. He's actually labeled their behavior as abusive--something he resisted in the past. He's taking a break from seeing them. He's talking to his friends about this (something he would never do before).

And our relationship is in a really, really good place.

I know this could be the calm before yet another storm. I really don't think MIL will give up easily. But I just wanted to share that my decisions and boundaries have led to real change. That as others predicted, if my husband had to face his parents alone (without a scapegoat or buffer), he may find clarity. And it has been hard to watch him go through that, but he is actually handling this really well. I think maybe I kept him from going through his own process by over-functioning and trying to make things better for such a long time.

I'm also feeling MUCH less guilt and responsibility about the whole thing. I am not agonizing over how I should have handled things better or whether I should apologize or send a letter.

I've VERY clear with myself that IF I ever re-engage, it will be in the most limited dose possible. On neutral territory. As a very grey, chill rock. With an escape route planned.

I know how I will handle myself if I run into IL's in our very small town. (It's the same plan as if I run into my uPDMom, with whom I'm VLC.)

Definitely a more solid sense of self, with a greater sense of resourcefulness these days. I'm sure there will be more ups and downs, hard days and seasons. But just the memory of clarity and peace will help me move through that I believe.

So--thank you guys. And for newer members--please trust yourself and follow the guidance that most resonates with you here. Lots of hard-earned wisdom.

<3 MustardSeed

[Srcyu]

What a lovely post, so calm and knowledgable about yourself and others. I love how you can view what is being said about you from a confident and emotionally safe distance.
The hard drugs nonsense, sounds suspiciously to me as though it came from the mind of mil not fil. I feel it could be both - an  attempt at a reaction and the possibility of a smear campaign. At least you've been forewarned.

Your husband sounds great. He is putting you first which is definitely how it should be.

Confidence, maturity and well-being shine right through your post.  Well done.

[mustard_seed]

What a lovely post, so calm and knowledgable about yourself and others. I love how you can view what is being said about you from a confident and emotionally safe distance.
The hard drugs nonsense, sounds suspiciously to me as though it came from the mind of mil not fil. I feel it could be both - an  attempt at a reaction and the possibility of a smear campaign. At least you've been forewarned.

Your husband sounds great. He is putting you first which is definitely how it should be.

Confidence, maturity and well-being shine right through your post.  Well done.

Thanks, Windmill 

I think if I hadn't joined the forum, I might still be stuck in the old spin cycle of LC-->increased contact-->conflict-->LC, etc.

On the issue of viewing what is being said about me from a safe distance: when I stepped out of the drama and could see the dynamics with more clarity and less emotional involvement things *clicked* for me. It's easier to be detached and calm when I'm being accused of "destroying" MIL's family when I KNOW that this isn't about me. This is a dysfunctional system that I stepped into. And my stepping out does nothing but expose the dysfunction.

I agree that MIL may have made up the drug allegations. I think she put them into FIL's mouth to try to create tension between H and FIL, who can both be reasonable and calm when she's not generating drama. I think she's uncomfortable with their having any kind of relationship that doesn't revolve around her. When they're at odds, she holds all the cards. I still don't know how conscious she is of this--some days I think she's VERY aware of what she's doing. Other days I see her as emotionally immature and acting out. The reality is I don't know her well enough to truly know.

On the possible smear campaign--we've talked that through and are trying to hold this mindset that anyone who would believe those things just doesn't know H well, or isn't someone we'd want to be close to anyway. IL's behavior says more about them than us. Easier said than done, but at least there's this anchor-thought to come back to.

I am still spending more mental and emotional bandwidth on this than I want to. I am processing things, thinking about them a lot. Hopefully I can shift that. I am firmly committed to NC through the holidays. And VLC with my family. So this winter I will be focused on my marriage and my other priorities. Hopefully this grip on my attention can loosen even more.

Thanks for listening and for your feedback

[Cat of the Canals]

I'd say I'm happy for you, but I'm sure it's sort of a mixed blessing -- on the one hand, your husband is gaining clarity, but I'm sure it's been a painful process. That's the unfortunate price of finding your way Out of the FOG, I guess. (Worth every penny, though, IMO.)

At a recent dinner, she told my husband that FIL thinks H is on hard drugs--that's the only way to explain his behavioral changes this year.

It's funny, we often say that my MIL talks to my husband as if he's on the brink of becoming a drug addict, when the reality is that he's healthy and successful by pretty much any metric. I've realized over time that this is not a reflection of how she actually perceives him. It's how she WANTS to see him, because if his life were truly out of control in that way, then she'd have her golden excuse to step in and take the reins. She's that desperate for control.

[mustard_seed]

I'd say I'm happy for you, but I'm sure it's sort of a mixed blessing -- on the one hand, your husband is gaining clarity, but I'm sure it's been a painful process. That's the unfortunate price of finding your way Out of the FOG, I guess. (Worth every penny, though, IMO.)

Hey Cat--thank you for your thoughtful response. Your comments often help me to be more empathetic towards my husband, who is not very open about his feelings. He seems fine on the surface--even relieved to have a 'reason' to take a break for now. He hates all the fuss of the holidays, so it's good timing. (Edited to add: But I'm sure it's more complicated and painful for him than he's letting on.)

But TBH my own feelings are not very pretty. There's this part of me that feels vindicated. Like, I took the brunt of MIL's abuse for years. She said horrible things to and about me. My husband's denial was very painful. I wanted him to protect me, or stand up for me. Or at least to see my perspective. And he just wouldn't or couldn't. I know it was hard for him. And I know now that I should have taken a stand for myself, set boundaries, and not needed him to validate me. But yeah--there's a part of me that's just grateful that the light is shining on all of this now. My husband is even finally acknowledging some of the abuse I went through, talking about things she's said and done that were terrible. It's like history is getting re-written now that he is facing them without me. So yeah--it's a mix of feelings and it's kind of hard to admit this about myself but that's just the way it goes sometimes.

It's funny, we often say that my MIL talks to my husband as if he's on the brink of becoming a drug addict, when the reality is that he's healthy and successful by pretty much any metric. I've realized over time that this is not a reflection of how she actually perceives him. It's how she WANTS to see him, because if his life were truly out of control in that way, then she'd have her golden excuse to step in and take the reins. She's that desperate for control.

Ok so maybe this is another one of those PD parent patterns!! The drug addict game. It does make a lot of sense that it would come back to power and control in some way. So interesting--thanks for sharing that one. My husband has been trying to figure out what it's about--why she's doing it. I guess I just assumed it was bait or a smear because those are the common things I've read about. But maybe it's more nuanced/complicated.

Really--SO helpful to have your feedback and thoughts.

[Sojourner17]

https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=92536.0;topicseen#:~:text=I%20agree%20that,to%20truly%20know

Im hoping that i copied the above correctly.  Sorry if I didnt.  The part I copied was about how your MIL more than likely made up the drug allegations.  I actually witnessed my unpdm do this with my dad.  She would ask him question after question saying things such as "dont you agree?" after making a statement about what she thought a certain persons behavior meant.  Then she would turn around and tell that person that dad thinks that you are doing this or that you are showing this behavior because of this.  It was totally fabricated in my mom's mind but she would twist things to make it look like dad agreed when in actuality I dont think he ever really did.  I also think he was uncomfortable by what she was saying but had no way of saying so because it sounded like the truth or it couldn't be denied or disputed without getting into it with her.  On the other hand, maybe he just agreed because it was easier to do that as it kept the heat off him.

Now I'm going to go back and read the rest of the posts.    

[bloomie]

mustard_seed - thank you for updating us and letting us know of the incredible progress you and your DH are making! It is so good to read: "Definitely a more solid sense of self, with a greater sense of resourcefulness these days. I'm sure there will be more ups and downs, hard days and seasons. But just the memory of clarity and peace will help me move through that I believe."

When my DH began awaken to the manipulative and destructive tendencies of his mother and sibling (which, like you and others here wasn't until I zipped it and stopped 'over funtioning' love how you worded that) and began to set boundaries and actually use his voice the in law family narrative became that he was mentally unstable, had had a psychotic break and was verbally and emotionally abusive to the point he had to take 'anger pills'.  The deep N injury of my DH's perceived betrayal of setting boundaries, separating and individuating, and the biggest no no of all... loving me and our family more than he loves his FOO and prioritizing us had to be explained somehow. So, of course... he must be unstable and going crazy.

That narrative set the ground work for years of undermining DH's reputation and character that continues to this day, so it is not a little thing when this begins. The slander has included us all and most recently our adult child/spouse, and grandkids. And the pay off for this kind of outrageous narrative for the narcissistic histrionic type person is it is a huge baited hook for attention and more contact and a way to keep us potentially drama bound and held hostage and in a step down, inferior, position. It is most definitely about control and withholding regard and respect. And it is vindictive. How dare we ignore them, be happy, have a good and exciting life filled with lovely people without them.

I am also convinced, in our case, that the glaring reality of having estranged relationships with our family HAS to be explained and managed for themselves and the masses that, in my case, my in laws believe are interested and avidly watching their family dynamics.  I honestly hate to tell the in laws, but no one cares if there are fractured relationships in the family. None of us are royalty, or Kardashians and are just not that interesting. 

How does it 'look' to their particular valued community of people and extended family if we are vLC or NC. If we don't respond to command performances and make the usual appearances? What could it imply about the in laws to others that their son/sibling and his wife and children who have established themselves as loving, generous, reliable contributing people in this world are not cooperating with the toxic behaviors and have distanced themselves. For us, it has been also been about how this might look to others. That we have quietly, with nary a whimper distanced ourselves.

We know that this is not what familial love and loyalty looks like. We know that this is not what a loving mother does to her son and his family. It is ugly and it has long term, destructive aftermath that make it near impossible to ever trust or work toward any kind of connection.

How wise for your DH to take a break from contact. How hopeful that you both are in lockstep and focusing on your marriage and building your life away from such brokenness and destruction. It can be a painful process, but as Cat says... worth every single hurdle to get to where you both are. You will only to continue to face whatever the future holds with strength, unity, and wisdom.

[Cat of the Canals]

He seems fine on the surface--even relieved to have a 'reason' to take a break for now.

Mine usually seems fine on the surface too, but I sense a grief underneath that I don't know if he'll ever be willing to examine.

You say you feel vindicated and describe it as "not pretty." But I think it's a normal reaction to being gaslit for all those years you were labelled as "the problem." I imagine it's an enormous relief to have that validation after so long.

Even if the drug addict comment was a smear campaign, it's still about control, in my mind. Your MIL is essentially telling him, "If you don't fall back in line, this is what we'll tell people or what people will think."

Then she would turn around and tell that person that dad thinks that you are doing this or that you are showing this behavior because of this. 

Sojourner17, my husband witnessed his mother doing something similar recently. She mentioned she was drinking coffee out of a particular mug that had belonged to H's late brother. My husband, without thinking, blurted out, "That was probably Alice's mug." Alice being his brother's ex-girlfriend.

By the end of the conversation, MIL said, "Well, I'm going to have to go visit Alice so I can give her mug back like you said." H actually stopped her. "I never said you had to go visit Alice. I only said the mug probably belonged to her."

The backstory here is that Alice has specifically asked MIL not to bring her anymore of BIL's things. Possibly because it makes her sad, but I think more likely she is trying to get MIL to STOP showing up at her house unannounced. (Good luck with that, Alice. We had to move 1500 miles away to stop it.)

In either case, MIL was definitely setting up a whole song and dance where she was going to tell Alice that H said she HAD to bring her the mug. 

[mustard_seed]

I actually witnessed my unpdm do this with my dad.  She would ask him question after question saying things such as "dont you agree?" after making a statement about what she thought a certain persons behavior meant.  Then she would turn around and tell that person that dad thinks that you are doing this or that you are showing this behavior because of this.

Hey Sojourner17 -- Yes! I've seen MIL and my own mother do very similar things. It seems part triangulation and part thought-policing to me and is so frustrating to deal with. At least we can see it for what it is though! And it's so validating to hear that you've seen this kind of thing too--so thank you for sharing.

The deep N injury of my DH's perceived betrayal of setting boundaries, separating and individuating, and the biggest no no of all... loving me and our family more than he loves his FOO and prioritizing us had to be explained somehow. So, of course... he must be unstable and going crazy.

And the pay off for this kind of outrageous narrative for the narcissistic histrionic type person is it is a huge baited hook for attention and more contact and a way to keep us potentially drama bound and held hostage and in a step down, inferior, position. It is most definitely about control and withholding regard and respect.

How does it 'look' to their particular valued community of people and extended family if we are vLC or NC. If we don't respond to command performances and make the usual appearances? What could it imply about the in laws to others that their son/sibling and his wife and children who have established themselves as loving, generous, reliable contributing people in this world are not cooperating with the toxic behaviors and have distanced themselves.

Bloomie--your story is definitely resonating with me and it's helpful to have some insight into the "why" behind the smearing and lies as well. I'm so glad to know more about these dynamics so that I can keep my ears perked and my eyes open. I am not going to be naïve about this stuff anymore!

And it all makes sense--the narcissistic injury, the perceived betrayal, and the need to save face in the community. (Though I agree--who cares? We're not VIPs and neither are they... probably no one wonders about our estranged relationships at all.)

I also think the part you shared about these accusations being designed to keep others in an inferior position is a big key that I've been missing. I know I can't do this work for my husband, but I've been trying to understand & empathize with what's going on for him. I think the withholding of approval and respect is huge. He's fought hard to have a solid career, a home of his own, and now our marriage. I think maybe he wants/needs their approval and validation and they might know this about him.

Thank you so much for your insights and support.   

You say you feel vindicated and describe it as "not pretty." But I think it's a normal reaction to being gaslit for all those years you were labelled as "the problem." I imagine it's an enormous relief to have that validation after so long.

Even if the drug addict comment was a smear campaign, it's still about control, in my mind. Your MIL is essentially telling him, "If you don't fall back in line, this is what we'll tell people or what people will think."

Cat--you're so right. It's completely natural and to be expected. I was feeling guilty that this validation is at my DH's expense... but actually, that's not my fault or responsibility. I get to own my feelings--and I DO feel relieved as well.

Yeah it really does seem to come back to control. I don't think the two possibilities (wishful thinking so that she can swoop in and save the day; smear campaign) are mutually exclusive either.

It's just amazing to have people I can talk to about this stuff. The biggest reason is because I am trusting my own reality more than I did a year ago. I *was* gaslit for a long time and blamed as the problem. It's still happening, but at least I know it and I'm not trying to prove anything anymore.

[Big Bear]

 

[mustard_seed]

Update:

Well, DH has gone wobbly here at Christmas. After one happy-family Dinner with MIL&FiL at which they were finally warm and kind, it seems DH is back in the FOG. 

He's back to daily contact, sometimes multiple times per day. Things feel weird between us and I'm not sure how much of that is my own psyche and how much is based in reality.

Please pray for me or send me a hug.

If you're struggling out there with holiday FOG, please know you're not alone. It's probably a normal part of the ebb and flow of all of this.

This is a hard thing to say out loud after my recent pronouncements of hope, excitement, etc. Re: our marriage. But, it is really happening. And maybe my being open about this pattern can help someone else as they're going through something similar.

I do hope things return to our new normal after the holidays. For now I think the best thing I can do is be my own best friend and try to enjoy Christmas with myself. Which actually doesn't feel too sad to say and I am glad I am starting to feel more "at home" with myself and less lonely. 

[Srcyu]

He's betrayed you there a little bit. He probably doesn't know how to acknowledge what he is doing. They reeled him back in so easily.
I like your plan of making sure, 'you have yourself a merry little Christmas.'

[Preamble]

mustard_seed I am glad I read right to the bottom.  I am sorry you are going through this.  I imagine if he is reflecting his mother, your logical response would be to deprive him of "oxygen" or attention and make yourself happy.

I went through this in the late 90s when I finally refused to visit my in laws house again (but I did not refuse to allow them to visit us).
It was a factor that ended the marriage but there were several others.  I've been told, "stick to your own boundaries and if your spouse is in fact evil, they will leave."  I hope it never comes to that but you are person too.

[mustard_seed]

He's betrayed you there a little bit. He probably doesn't know how to acknowledge what he is doing. They reeled him back in so easily.
I like your plan of making sure, 'you have yourself a merry little Christmas.'

Thank you Windmill for sharing your thoughts. It does feel like a betrayal to me. But he is so calm and contained on the surface that I question myself. So I appreciate your feedback; it's helping me counter the self-doubt.

I did yoga and cleaned my house today. I plan to do some more decorating and some baking tomorrow. And "have yourself a merry little Christmas" is one of my favorite songs. <3

I hope you're doing well! Thank you again. 

[mustard_seed]

mustard_seed I am glad I read right to the bottom.  I am sorry you are going through this.  I imagine if he is reflecting his mother, your logical response would be to deprive him of "oxygen" or attention and make yourself happy.

I went through this in the late 90s when I finally refused to visit my in laws house again (but I did not refuse to allow them to visit us).
It was a factor that ended the marriage but there were several others.  I've been told, "stick to your own boundaries and if your spouse is in fact evil, they will leave."  I hope it never comes to that but you are person too.

Preamble, *hugs* to you for your kindness and for your hardships on a similar path. Your message reminds me to look to my own goodness, to keep my boundaries and let the chips fall as they may.

I'm curious about your story but don't want to ask Intrusive questions.  Would definitely be interested to hear more-- whatever is comfortable for you to share.

Sending good thoughts your way<3
MS

[Cat of the Canals]

Sending virtual hugs. How long do you think MIL can keep up the "Happy Family" routine? Mine can't do it for very long at all. Like a few hours, tops. Even my own PDmom, who generally is better at "playing nice," can only do it for so long. Maybe a week. In my experience, if he was Out of the FOG once, he'll be back out again. It's only a matter of time. Stay strong and happy holidays!

[mustard_seed]

Sending virtual hugs. How long do you think MIL can keep up the "Happy Family" routine? Mine can't do it for very long at all. Like a few hours, tops. Even my own PDmom, who generally is better at "playing nice," can only do it for so long. Maybe a week. In my experience, if he was Out of the FOG once, he'll be back out again. It's only a matter of time. Stay strong and happy holidays!

It's hard to say how long she can play nice because the dynamics have changed so much this year. But in the past, even when I've been VLC/on a "break" from seeing IL's, things seemed smooth between them while I was out of the picture.

After more reflection, I think what used to happen and is happening now is that my husband gives in and does what he needs to to appease her. Including the constant phone calls and texts. And oversharing about our lives. And allowing her to speak badly about me without any consequences.

My guess is this is the "nice" side of the trauma bond, where if he does what she wants, he gets warmth and connection. I think even more than his mom's warmth, it's his dad that's the key. And EnFil is only kind to DH if MIL allows it. I think you get the picture.

But! You're right. PDs are gonna PD. And maybe now that he's experienced the peace etc. Of lower contact and having boundaries with her, things will evolve differently.

We did talk since i posted, and he *is* saying it's different this time. Says he doesn't want mil&fil to slander him to mutual acquaintances. So he is making an effort in order to avoid their nastiness (eg, the meth addict comments) by being in more regular contact and giving things a shot. He says if they start talking badly about me, he will leave. And he says I need to trust him.

Honestly, the pattern *is* like you're saying. He goes in and Out of the FOG, but he used to just live there. His boundaries have been getting better over the years.

Thank you for the reassurance and for *getting* it. I hope you're enjoying the holidays and doing well. 

[bloomie]

mustard_seed - hugs and prayers to you!!! This sure is a process as our DH's extricate themselves from the sticky web of enmeshment.

I see this as that part of your DH that has yet to fully mature into the ability to hold a consistent view of his parents and respond accordingly. It is really challenging to hold two opposing truths at the same time about our loved ones, I have found. The good and valuable in another and the toxic and harmful in another coexist. And the huge question becomes, how do we respond to that reality?

I really admire how you are focusing on more than this turn of events. It would be so easy (and it is something I have done in the past) to allow this to overshadow your happy home and holidays. Keep loving each other. Keep choosing each other and building trust between the two of you. And keep discerning and using your wisdom with each new twist and turn in this journey.

It is easy to see from our perspective that your DH attempting to control his parent's slander of him by being in closer contact is a no win game. That that one behavior is an indicator of much bigger issues. But, he will need to see that for himself. And it is likely your in laws will return to toxic behaviors which seem to be part of their character issues. That would be painful to witness. We can hope for a change for everyone concerned, but still be realistic about the odds of them choosing differently going forward.

In spite of it all, I hope the next few days are filled with love, light, grace, and joy! Merry, merry!!

[mustard_seed]

Oh Bloomie, your words are such a balm. YES, this is a p-r-o-c-e-s-s, not a one-and-done event. And your insights about DH's difficulty holding the dichotomy of the good/valuable and the toxic/harmful in his parents feels very resonant.

I'm reminded of how many warm memories of my own mother have come up as I've individuated from her--memories that are real, but need to be balanced with the darker scenes as well. There are many instances of emotional, verbal and physical abuse that also arise from her character. This conflict *is* a challenging one to hold and respond to with wisdom. It took me time to work this out for myself. And he may need time to do this deep psychological work as well. And it is HIS to do, and he has to do it in HIS way.

As I read your words encouraging me to keep loving, choosing and building trust with my husband, I had chills and tears, followed by a deeply peaceful feeling. This helped me to engage with him at Christmas, a time that is deeply special for us as he proposed on Christmas Eve. Thank you for this needed encouragement. 

I love also your perspective that "we can hope for a change for everyone concerned, but still be realistic about the odds of them choosing differently going forward." What this feels like to me is a loving mindset toward all involved... but with the boundaries that come from a deep understanding of the situation and my (in)ability to control or change it. Extremely helpful