My Story and Wife's NPD

snakebite1616 · March 29, 2023, 02:07:32 PM

My wife and I have been together for 11 years, married for almost 8. We have a 6 year old and a 3 year old together. Over the past few years I I have felt like I am raising two kids and a teenager. My wife very seldom helps around the house and has no responsibilities that she owns and simply lets the responsibilities of being an adult fall back on me. It feels like I am her mother and that she is taking advantage of me. I just recently learned what narcissism is and I am fairly confident she has NPD based on what I am reading about it. She also has ADHD which I find interesting that ADHD is more common in individuals with NPD.

Here are a few examples of the narcissism and her taking advantage of me. She routinely sleeps in until 10:00 or later on the weekends. Meanwhile I am up at 7:00 with the kids playing with them, making breakfast, etc.. On the weekdays she sleeps in until 7:30 when our son needs to be to school by 8:00. I have asked her multiple times to be up and out of bed by 7:00 at the latest to help get the kids ready for school. Every time I ask her to do this she will do better about getting up for a few days but then it always go back to her sleeping in until the last possible minute where she rolls out of bed at 7:30 to go drive our son to school by 8:00 (which he is often late for). Meanwhile, I am up at 6:00 on weekdays, get myself ready for the day, get the kids up and going for the day, and try to get something done around the house quick. I don't understand why she ignores my requests like this to get up by 7:00 nor do I understand why she thinks this is acceptable behavior as a parent and a spouse. This makes me feel disrespected when she repeatedly ignores my requests. It is also disheartening as I know our kids have a very a chaotic and overall poor morning routine.

She is always late to things, which is a bad habit that is starting to rub off on our kids where they think it is ok to be late and keep others waiting. She is always on her phone and is borderline addicted to social media. She is obsessed with online attention. Even when we go on date nights she will be playing in her phone on the table half the time making me feel like her virtual / online life is more important than me and her real world life.

It feels like we are strangers living in the same house together. We have very little in common and I also do not find myself being physically attracted to her. Our sex life has been nearly nonexistent the past few years. She is controlling, doesn't let me out of the house or have a social life, she is manipulative, and will lie / exaggerate to get her way or get herself out of a bad situation. Our core values don't seem to line up at all which is one of the main reasons why I question why we are still together.

I have been struggling with mental health issues over the past couple of years as a direct result of our relationship issues. I proposed we go to marriage counseling just over a year ago and she declined and said I needed to see a psychiatrist first and get on meds. I was taking lexapro prior to her saying this and came off of it as I didn't like the way it made me feel (zombie effect where I didn't care about things). After coming off of it I started feeling more 'alive' and was starting to see more of the BS that was happening around me with regards to her and her behavior and started calling her out on much of this stuff. She didn't like this new me where I was being more vocal, saying no, sticking up for myself, and calling her out which is what-led to her comments about me needing to see a psychiatrist and get on meds. This is when I first started to question if there was some mental/emotional abuse going on here.

I did in fact take the initiative to go to a psychiatrist and a counselor to help me work through the sleep issues, anxiety and depression I was experiencing. I ended up going on Effexor which helped me get through some severe depression last summer but am now almost completely weaned off of it as my depression has been much better. As a result of seeing the psychiatrist, they recommended I see a sleep specialist and an ENT to check for a breathing issue I might have. Sure enough, I had sleep apnea and a pretty severe deviated septum that I had surgery for last Fall. About a week after surgery I was sleeping like a baby and have felt like a different person ever since. I have more energy, more motivation, not as much depression and anxiety has been minimal.

One other key point is my wife left her prior career and started her own business a few years ago. Since then, the business has been a major burden on our family as she has prioritized the business over everything else in her life. She has 'bragged' on social media in the past on how she regularly works 80-100 hours a week as if it is some soft of badge of honor. Meanwhile, public comments like this embarrasses the shit out of me as she has 2 kids and a husband at home that are being neglected due to her working so much and prioritizing work over her family. It feels like she intentionally spends a large amount of time on the business to escape her responsibilities at home. It also feels like she is cheating on me with her new business. I have mentioned that she has her priorities twisted and that she should not be spending so much time working, but again she doesn't seem to care about my thoughts and opinions. In her mind she thinks she needs to work so much to keep the business afloat (or when times are good, the excuse is that she needs to keep the business growing which is why she works so much).

I have been feeling resentful towards her for the last several months and find myself not wanting to be around her or spend time with her. Neither of us seem happy but I get the feeling she wants to keep me around as I take care of things at home and am the primary bread winner (my income is 3 times her income). My parents got divorced when I was 12 and it was a very traumatic thing to go through. I always told myself when I had kids myself that I wouldn't put my kids through the same thing, which is why I think I have tried to stick this out through all the misery.

I have been to 4 counselors over the past year and a half and all of them have said something to the effect that my wife is the one that has the issues and is the one that needs counseling and may have a mental health disorder herself. I recently started learning about narcissism / NPD and I absolutely think this is what is going on with her. I am still learning about narcissism (which is what led me to outofthefog) but this is starting to make a lot more sense as to why she does the things she does. In my next counseling session next week I am going to mention narcissism to my counselor.

NPD or not, I am at the point where I know I need to make some changes in my life for my own wellbeing and my kids as things cannot continue to go on like this.

SonofThunder · March 29, 2023, 02:49:31 PM

Hello snakebite1616,

A warm welcome to Out of the FOG! This place is filled with kind people from all over the world, so glad to now have you walking the same trails alongside us.

Im sorry you are experiencing these behaviors from your wife. You have arrived at a very good place to receive validation, gain insight, wisdom and the tools to protect yourself, your children and plan your future. Regarding validation; I have been married for 3 decades to a woman with very similar traits and separated from her in 2022, currently on a path to legal divorce. You may browse my posts by clicking on my screen name and clicking on 'Show Posts'. PD's mostly follow the same playbook so you will surely begin to read the stories of many members, which mimic your experiences with your wife.

Other gentleman will surely drop by this post to say hello and believe me, most of our wives may have been identical twins. You are TRULY not alone. I recommend you visit the Personality Disorders tab at the top and the 100 traits list in the drop-down. Start aligning the terminology there with the traits you experience, to familiarize yourself. Those terms will assist you in further understanding and discussion here at Out of the FOG. At the same time, just to the right of that tab, see the Toolbox tab. That tab is where you want to drive your tent posts and begin to camp there, absorbing the provided materials.

We always leave at least one chair open around the campfire discussions at the forum boards. Make yourself at home, kick off your hiking boots and rest your weary feet around the friendly fires of topical conversation. See you around the boards!

SoT

Gman22 · March 29, 2023, 09:36:34 PM

Welcome, Snakebite. I'm new here as well but have a similar story. Sounds like you are working on being healthy of mind and learning about your experiences and interactions with wife.

Seek knowledge with some of the seasoned folks here on these forums. I recommend Dr Ramani on YouTube as well just to learn about different difficult personality types and what makes them (and us) tick. The more you learn, the better equipped you are to do the right things for the right reasons for the best outcome possible. You aren't alone!

snakebite1616 · March 30, 2023, 09:26:40 PM

Thank you all for the warm welcome. I have a lot of research to do on my end as this is all new to me.

One of the biggest concerns I have right off the bat is that my wife will try to turn the kids against me or take them away if / when we go down the separation / divorce path (parental alienation). I consider myself a pretty good dad. I am by no means perfect, but the kids are a huge part of my life and not being able to see them or spend time with them regularly would be devastating for me.

Furthermore, I unfortunately do not have many friends or a very strong support system directly around me. Now that I am learning more about NPD, I do not think this is a coincidence (imposed isolation). I very rarely am able to get out of the house due to my wife essentially not allowing it and trying to convince me that "this is normal". I have raised this concern of me not being able to get out of the house to hang out with my friends (or meet new friends) with my wife and she always downplays my comments and will argue that 'this is normal' when you have kids. On the rare occasions when I am able to get out and have something planned, she quite often becomes 'sick' suddenly and I have to cancel my plans. When I actually am able to get out of the house (again, this is maybe once every few months), she gives off this disapproval vibe and/or will try to make me feel bad about her staying home with the kids without me. This is something I have been working on this with my counselor and am going to try to get out once a week or every other week at a minimum.

My final thought for the evening is the 'normalizing' concept that goes along with NPD. This has really stuck out to me as I can think of several other examples of where she uses the 'this is normal' excuse / rationale when we are debating about something. One other example off the top of my head I can think of is a year or so ago I mentioned how I didn't like how cluttered and messy our house always is. She argued that 'this is normal' when you have kids and that if we went two doors down to our neighbor's house (who also have two kids almost the same age as us) their house looks exactly the same on the inside. Keep in mind that she has never been inside this said neighbor's house yet is trying to claim that it is always messy just like our house. One other example I can think of is I told her a while back that I do not like our kids being the last ones being dropped off at daycare. Again, she came at me with the irrational excuse of 'this is normal'.... It clearly is not normal as they are almost always the last ones to walk in the door to be dropped off (which annoys not only me but our daycare provider as it messes up morning routines and what not).

SonofThunder · March 31, 2023, 08:27:02 PM

Quote from: user on March 31, 2023, 05:45:03 PM
Snakebite,

I know you'll find a lot of great advice about your PD spouse turning your kids against you. That's not something I've had to deal with (yet) but I'm sure others will respond accordingly...

My biggest challenge for you on the other points is: what do YOU want? Why is your wife the authority on "what is normal"? Is she your superior? Do you report to her? of course not. You have just as much a right as an adult to do what YOU deem appropriate, regardless of what she says. FWIW, having kids is not a reason to stop seeing friends. Maybe the first 6 months of the baby's life, but not forever.

You have to remember though that your job is not to convince her of your version of normal. You have to just DO what you deem right, regardless of how she reacts. Will she whine and complain and huff and puff? No doubt. But she'll do that anyways. You might as well start to live the life you want regardless of how she acts.

If I were in your shoes, I would stop letting her define normal. But don't expect her to change. Want the house cleaner? You're probably going to have to take the initiative to do it yourself, despite her protestations. Want the kids dropped off earlier? You'll have to take control of the situation.

Ironically I have the opposite problem ... our house is TOO clean because my wife has OCD tendencies. (We have 5 kids). I finally stopped trying to convince her that our level of cleanliness isn't "normal." I just stopped meeting her demands and whims of always cleaning all the damn time. Let her tire herself out cleaning constantly ... I'm not going to be roped into her distorted worldview. Does she bitch at me about it? You bet. But now I know to just say to myself, "oh well, that's just how they are."

I'm not saying any of this is easy, because she will fight you every step of the way. But if you can begin to live your life how you want, not dictated by how she thinks it should be lived, I think you'll find you can regain a lot of hope for yourself and your kids.

+1

user you wrote:

"... if you can begin to live your life how you want, not dictated by how she thinks it should be lived, I think you'll find you can regain a lot of hope for yourself and your kids."

Agree 100%

Snakebite, heres an interesting thing to possibly consider about users advice. If a very near future scenario occurred and you found yourself spouseless with 100% custody of the kids, you would be responsible for 100% of all the work you described on your initial post with kids/school and ALL house cleaning (and more) and it would probably run smooth because you are designing how everything operates. You may fully accept the challenge, work incredibly hard doing it, and feel very accomplished.

Therefore, so much of the mental strain we non's face may not be really workload related, but our spouses crappy attitude and manipulation of the situation to control-feed from our frustration. If you can begin to become indifferent to your spouse's attitude and manipulative actions/reactions and do work like you are spouseless, then it wont matter what she does/says and she will just be that extra "teenager" in the house as you so well stated.

Surely, you will have to deal with her PD trait actions/reactions but you will simply be doing workload training should she not be in your future daily living. If the future holds that you end up in the described scenario, you will be doing the exact same workload except the teenager flew the nest. Maybe look at your immediate future as training, with the attitude toward it all, that user well advises.

SoT

snakebite1616 · April 03, 2023, 05:08:10 PM

Thank you for the advice.

A bit of an update over the weekend. My wife cornered me Friday night to "talk" after we got the kids to bed. She pressured me into talking about things that I wasn't quite ready to discuss yet but I digress. I have been having thoughts of leaving the relationship, which I told my counselor about last week. My counselor mentioned I should tell my wife about these thoughts when I was ready (my original plan was to think about all of this, learn more about NPD, and have the discussion after the Easter weekend as we are travelling to see family). Oh well, the cat is out of the bag now....

Her immediate response to me telling her that I have been having thoughts of leaving the relationship was that she would never sign anything and that it is disgusting I am having these thoughts (again trying to invalidate my feelings and thoughts). She mentioned our vows, the commitment we made to each other, our kids and how neither of us want to raise kids in a broken home. She said the only reason for divorce is if there is physical abuse going on. I wanted to say that I feel like I have been mentally / emotionally abused which is just as bad, but I wasn't quite ready to go down that path just yet.

During our talk, I mentioned how I have been feeling resentful towards her for several months now. I brought up some of the things that I have not been happy about, and the fact that these are things I have brought up multiple times in the past over the course of 1-2 years now, yet they continue to be issues.

Her prioritizing work over family and spending 80-100 hours working every week
Her not putting in anywhere near her fair share of work around the house (which is not only due to her working too much but also her intentionally trying to get out of household and parenting responsibilities).
How I don't like it when the kids are the last ones to get picked up at day care. When she picks the kids up she pulls in the parking lot at 6:00 right when day care closes and is often late (I know this as we both got an email about this from the daycare administrator a few weeks ago about the kids being picked up late). When I pick the kids up, I am there by 5:30 at the absolute latest (I leave work by 5:00).
Her sleeping in in the morning and how our morning routine is so chaotic when she is around (when I get the kids ready myself, I find it to be much easier)
Likewise, how our nighttime routine with the kids is very chaotic when she is around (keep in mind, when she is gone and I put the kids to bed myself, things go much smoother and are done in a timely manner vs when she is around)
Her having no responsibilities around the house and the fact that she is taking advantage of me

Keep in mind that there are many other issues that I have lightly mentioned to her or have not brought up in length as I have been taking the approach of trying to solve a few of the problems at a time before working on other issues. I have been working on the work prioritization, sleeping in, poor bedtime routine, not helping around the house nearly enough for almost 2 years now with little to no progress. With the uNPD, I am starting to understand why these things have not gotten better and how she has been just trying to manipulate me and keep me under her thumb. She has had a pretty good setup for the past few years with me being the primary bread winner, the primary caregiver for our kids and our house, and her having virtually no responsibilities.

I meet with my counselor again tomorrow and am going to discuss much of this and the uNPD. I am at the point that I know I want out of the relationship but this is going to be very difficult with her manipulative behavior, our kids we have together, and a business that we have together that I am half owner of.

SonofThunder · April 03, 2023, 08:08:35 PM

Snakebite,

I will keeping you in thought and prayer as you move forward. Imo regardless of the cornering experience, i will urge to to go over the toolbox tab in detail and look back at your last post in analysis, like a sports team reviewing the last game videos. Be very honest with yourself on what you find.

I have not been to a therapist, but imo, a counselor who knows personality disorders well, should understand that providing that kind of information to a PD is similar to advising a gazelle to invite a leopard over for a visit to tell the leopard that gazelle's don't appreciate being surprised, chased and eaten. The leopard returns home full from an easy meal, without a chase.

As you wrote "the cat is out of the bag". I agree, and imo that hungry cat is going to be even more laser focused on more of the same of your past experiences, but maybe ramp it all up a notch in manipulative punishment.

Therefore I want to advise you going forward to 'hold your cards close' in full privacy and don't share battle plans as 'loose lips sink ships'. When going through the toolbox, please read and understand JADE. We nons want to no-JADE around PD's and its so very difficult. Please absorb the toolbox materials.

These experiences of your last post have now provided first hand, what your counselor should have known would occur imo, if the counselor suspected a possible PD. Im sorry that occurred.

SoT

SonofThunder · April 03, 2023, 11:22:14 PM

+1 to all Bookwork wrote. Wise words of experience

SoT