Shyness/introversion - is ours created or innate?

[easterncappy]

I was thinking today, I have this group that I consider my chosen family. They have called me family as well. Before I had my daughter, we would often get together and sit on one of the people's porch for hours and just talk. We've been there for each other when SHTF. However, when we're all together, I'm mostly quiet... but I do want to speak up and insert myself into certain conversations.

Today I had a memory of how when I was a kid, my parents pretty much never took me anywhere age-appropriate, I never did after school activities, no sports, not really allowed to play outside (my mom believed playing makes kids stupid), etc. and while that is all bad in it's own right, the thing they'd do often is take me to events with their similarly aged friends and acquaintances. I remember never enjoying it. I had to sit with them, but wasn't allowed to speak much (because I had nothing to say to 40-50 year old people and they had nothing to say to me), and I was also considered rude if I left the area to go do some normal child stuff like play or draw. Then, on the way home, I'd get chewed out by my parents in the car about how I said something wrong, told a stupid joke, shouldn't have said XYZ, and so on.

So I guess I just learned to sit there and be quiet. I was also incredibly socially awkward until my mid-20's and still frequently am.

I remember when I started to date my husband and he'd introduce me to friends (he is also in the group I talked about here) and I would get really nervous and I genuinely expected to get chewed out on the way back. I would even ask him "did I do this wrong? Should I have said that? Do they not like me now?" and I didn't understand how he didn't see anything wrong with how I acted around them.

My mom always wore her "introversion" as a badge of honor although I don't think she was really introverted. I think hers was created but in a different way. People generally didn't really like her for long and she'd cope by saying she didn't want friends anyway.

Maybe I'm not an introvert after all? Just low confidence issues and being trained to not really speak out much? Because when I think about what I actually *want* to be doing, it's pretty different from the kinda of faux-introversion I've lived with forever.

Can anyone relate?

[SonofThunder]

I was thinking today, I have this group that I consider my chosen family. They have called me family as well. Before I had my daughter, we would often get together and sit on one of the people's porch for hours and just talk. We've been there for each other when SHTF. However, when we're all together, I'm mostly quiet... but I do want to speak up and insert myself into certain conversations.

Today I had a memory of how when I was a kid, my parents pretty much never took me anywhere age-appropriate, I never did after school activities, no sports, not really allowed to play outside (my mom believed playing makes kids stupid), etc. and while that is all bad in it's own right, the thing they'd do often is take me to events with their similarly aged friends and acquaintances. I remember never enjoying it. I had to sit with them, but wasn't allowed to speak much (because I had nothing to say to 40-50 year old people and they had nothing to say to me), and I was also considered rude if I left the area to go do some normal child stuff like play or draw. Then, on the way home, I'd get chewed out by my parents in the car about how I said something wrong, told a stupid joke, shouldn't have said XYZ, and so on.

So I guess I just learned to sit there and be quiet. I was also incredibly socially awkward until my mid-20's and still frequently am.

I remember when I started to date my husband and he'd introduce me to friends (he is also in the group I talked about here) and I would get really nervous and I genuinely expected to get chewed out on the way back. I would even ask him "did I do this wrong? Should I have said that? Do they not like me now?" and I didn't understand how he didn't see anything wrong with how I acted around them.

My mom always wore her "introversion" as a badge of honor although I don't think she was really introverted. I think hers was created but in a different way. People generally didn't really like her for long and she'd cope by saying she didn't want friends anyway.

Maybe I'm not an introvert after all? Just low confidence issues and being trained to not really speak out much? Because when I think about what I actually *want* to be doing, it's pretty different from the kinda of faux-introversion I've lived with forever.

Can anyone relate?

Hi easterncappy,

I believe introversion can be a product of 'nature' (specific human traits by birth)  & nurture (influences after birth) combined.  My understanding of introversion is it's more about where I recharge my batteries versus my social traits or my social preferences, although social preferences can have trends among those who are introverts.

If you are feeling very drained (emotionally, physically or both) ,do you find that being alone is your source of refreshment, or being with other humans?

Also, if you are not familiar, i wanted to point out the wonderful award-winning website, founded by Jenn Granneman.  The site is filled with wonderful articles in which you may glean more information about your exploration of both shyness and introversion.   

The website url is:

https://introvertdear.com/

SoT

[sunshine702]

I do think people are naturally introverted but also bad experiences make us fear extroversion.  Yeah I have this nagging bad tape from my parents that I have said or done something wrong.  I have a lot of inner social anxiety although you would not know it.  It try to push through it and engage and once I make a connection and get good feedback I am fine.  The inner critic playing in your head during social interactions is them and mine was I could never do anything right. 

[cik]

I was a very outgoing kid. I loved the stage- school productions, choirs etc. I always say I'm an extrovert trapped in an introvert's body. Five minutes around other people energises me more than five hours watching Netflix, even if in those five minutes I don't talk to anyone present.

So in my case the surface introversy has very much been created, it was a perfect storm of parents/extended family (narc dad thought everyone was out to get him to the point he slept with a machete, and mom/her side of the family were very keeping up with the Jones's), and growing up LGBT and the bullying/self-filtering that comes with that.

[SonofThunder]

Five minutes around other people energises me more than five hours watching Netflix, even if in those five minutes I don't talk to anyone present.

👆🏼that.

Cik,

Sorry to read of the turmoil in your childhood home. Imo, where we recharge is key to the each term, so if recharging mainly around other humans more than solo, then your extrovert self description makes sense to me. I am opposite of you and therefore introversion. We are equals though, in our extraversion and introversion.

Regarding the surface actions/reactions of prolonged living around the trauma's you and easterncappy describe, I understand how some people associate learned and self-safety focused traits of the traumatized with introversion. Imo thats sadly why I believe introversion is a marginalized label by an extroverted society of individuals, groups and organizations.

I also do not believe quietness, shyness and introversion should be assumed to reside in the same recipe.  Im not quiet or shy, yet a strongly solo-recharging, confident introvert.  Again, I believe introversion's main defining attribute is how we each recharge our batteries.  I also do not believe trauma should be in the defining criteria of an mbti description, since trauma is extracurricular to natural human development, yet a sad reality for so many of us.

SoT

[Jolie40]

I believe mine was created

I got in big trouble when young for saying something
so decided that I wasn't going to say anything ever again so as not to get in trouble

even in school, I got afraid to say anything!
at my desk in high school, I would try to hide my head behind the person in front of me so the teacher wouldn't see me & call on me

years & years later, I am no longer afraid to speak up
I think it came with being a parent & needing to speak up for my kid (I became mama bear)

[Maxtrem]

Hello easterncappy,

I can see myself in your post and I have already asked myself the same questions. (I got emotional reading your post as it brought up a buried memory from my childhood). ) Like you, I learned to keep my mouth shut at a very young age for fear of reprisals for simply behaving like a child. The slightest little word or behavior and I would get yelled at for being a disgrace. As a result, I am a very shy person, I considered myself socially awkward during my adolescence. I also lacked self-confidence to the extreme and started building self-confidence at the age of 30.   

I am also an introverted person, but I don't think this is caused by trauma. My lack of confidence and shyness is. Like you, I still have trouble getting into certain conversations with groups of friends. I am also often afraid of being judged, even though I know that it is irrational.

However, my introversion is innate in my opinion. I like to have moments alone to recharge my batteries. A lot of social events in a row make me tired.   

Maybe you are an introvert and that is good there can even be advantages

Personally I'm trying to work on my lack of confidence. I'm also trying to rationalize that normal people I have conversations with won't judge me on a little word like my family did.

On the other hand, it is very difficult for me to build up my self-confidence. For almost 25 years of being denigrated, it leaves its mark. I started to have some self-confidence when I had great professional success and became a well-known and respected businessman in my region. On the other hand, a businesswoman whom I admire a lot and who had a similar childhood to mine with a narc mother told me last week that I have to learn to love myself to have real self-confidence.

I am also beginning to learn to defend myself. I hate it but in business I simply have no choice. However, I am always afraid of reprisals when it is totally irrational.

[Leonor]

Hello!

I think it's less about how you are and more about how you feel about how you are.

If you are more comfortable in a group just listening but then beat yourself up for being "rude" or "snobbish" or "distant," then the trauma is being told that how you are is wrong.

If you enjoy talking to people and connecting, but later feel shame or embarrassed for being "noisy," "bossy," or "domineering," then the trauma is being told that how you are is wrong.

All you have to do is listen to that little voice in your head telling you the ways that you are wrong. You're probably quoting your own parents to yourself!

If you feel bad, but aren't sure why, ask. Hm, I feel bad. Why do I feel bad? Oh I told a joke and no one laughed. And why would that make me feel bad? Oh, well, it reminded me of that time my dad... Or mom said I always say the wrong thing ... Or my aunt warned me that ...

But is it really a bad thing? Are we really wrong? Comics tell jokes that fall flat all the time, and they don't then beat themselves up for being so thoughtless or lame. Some people might even say, Gee, that crowd has no sense of humor!

Maybe you're not a this or that thing. Maybe you have no diagnosis! Maybe you're just remembering what other people told you about yourself. That doesn't mean any of it is true or valid or reliable or even marginally reality based, given the people of whom we are speaking (PDs interact with images they make of people, not the real people themselves.)

You just do you and bleep em if they can't take a 🤣!

[BeautifulCrazy]

I am a classic introvert.
I desperately need my time alone to recharge and get myself centered. I like interacting with other humans, but it truly sucks the life out of me, even the best, most fun stuff.
I am not shy.
At all.
Although I do not speak/ share as often as most people, when I do, I am very confident in what I am sharing. I tend toward loudness/ boldness.

I wonder if the "created" introversion is social avoidance or social fear based in insecurity or anxiety, not necessarily introversion at all? Although, I guess one could be introverted and insecure at the same time?

[SonofThunder]

I am a classic introvert.
I desperately need my time alone to recharge and get myself centered. I like interacting with other humans, but it truly sucks the life out of me, even the best, most fun stuff.
I am not shy.
At all.

.....I am very confident in what I am sharing.

  those parts same with me.

+1 to the opinion that other experience factors can create "social avoidance or social fear" based in insecurity or anxiety, and can be labeled as a part of introversion and that is unfortunate.  Imo that is why introversion is marginalized by societies of individuals and also by organizations, in comparison to extroversion.

Churches, universities, companies and the long list goes on, promote gathering, finding our 'group', group-work when its not necessary, team-building when not necessary, and other social gathering functions.  This promoted grouping is labeled as normal, and those that prefer more solo (or much small numbers) considered as abnormal or shy.  It was very evident in both my children's freshmen year of their university experience. The gathering events were school-planned and HIGHLY promoted by the university. Those freshmen who did not join their 'group' were continually encouraged to do so by dormitory leaders and social function departments at the university.

-I have a small number of friends. I prefer it.

-I enjoy deep, topic-based conversation with my friends and children, although, I am equally able to hang with an entire crowd performing surface level chit-chat at a party or conference. 

-I will attend a party or conference, but I have to escape to silence intermittently during the highly crowded and noisy event.  Im fine in a restaurant or other places not to densely packed as a party or conference.

-I suffer the classic 'introvert hangover' the day after a large and noisy social gathering or even a weekend with friendly guests in my home (yes that includes my adult kids)

-if I travel with multiple others, i frequently need a "vacation from my vacation" upon return.

-many others to  but don't want to deviate the thread.

SoT