when was the moment you went no contact?

[clockworkorange]

What was the event in your life when you went NC with your PD parent?

I just went NC and am starting to question myself.

[BeautifulCrazy]

My 3 kids went NC with their PD dad 8 months ago. (they are 13, 15 and 16 years old)
The catalyst was a disagreement between one of the kids and their dad's girlfriend. The 3 kids stood up for one another while dad took his girlfriend's side. (A pretty ordinary event)
The long, ranting drive back to my house was the straw that broke their rocky relationship completely. Their dad told them point blank that his girlfriend was more important to him than they were and that the kids were not worth the time, money or effort he spent on them. He called them all kinds of rude names and expressed how worthless and weak and terrible he thought they were.

All three blocked their dad on all media platforms and stopped initiating contact of any kind.
Nobody has any interest at all in doing the every- other- weekend visits.
One of the kids sort of broke NC and checked for messages from dad leading up to Christmas.... nothing.
Since then, they haven't contacted him for anything, not about Christmas, school events, sports events, holidays, not even his birthday.

They seem firm, so far, on not ever, ever speaking to him again, but I worry that in the future, they will have back and forth feelings about this, and possibly do the NC / breaking NC thing over and over and over again looking for that connection or validation that they never had. (And likely won't.) I have told them I will support them, no matter what choices they make. And I will.

I would really like to reassure you, like I try to do for my kids, that YOU are the most important person in your life.
Always, always take care of YOU first. That means not subjecting yourself to abuse.
Some people are not capable of participating in a mutual and loving relationship. That is not your fault.
We don't get to pick our FOO, but that doesn't mean we don't have a choice. (Unfortunately, this does not apply equally to children.) In any relationship, we can't let people treat us badly just because we love them.

[easterncappy]

When I had a child and realized that it's not just about me putting up with their crap. If I kept putting up with it, my child would be at risk of growing up in the same toxicity.

But you need to do what's right for you. If I had gone NC at one point where I was being pressured by someone I knew to go NC, I probably would have ended up homeless and even worse off. You have to weigh the risks vs. rewards for YOU. And only YOU know when is the right time.

[clockworkorange]

BeautifulCrazy,
Thank you for your reply and for your story. How brave your children are and what a painful experience that must have been for them. To be so young and be forced to make that decision. How abusive and discounting for a father to tell his children they "were not worth the time, money or effort he spent on them" and choose his "girlfriend" over his own flesh and blood. These kids are going to need therapy at some point. But in a way it's good the NC is happening now, when they're young, so they don't develop decades of unhealthy coping patterns due to the narc's conditioning.

Thank you for your support, BeautifulCrazy. The first few days after going NC, I felt heartbroken, lost, spaced-out, zombied, wounded. Like my world had ended. But then, a few days later, before bedtime, I put on some music and realized I was dancing in my pajamas.  I felt lighter than I had in a while. I giggled and grooved. Is this what freedom from oppression feels like?

[Leonor]

Hi clockwork,

If I may, are you questioning if your decision to go NC with your family was somehow "valid," "reasonable," or "good enough"?

Are you wondering if their behavior somehow "met a threshold," "crossed a line," or "rose to a standard" that would justify no contact?

Do you wonder if your family is "really that" abusive, dysfunctional, or hurtful?

I ask because those are FOG responses: what if it wasn't so bad, what if I'm being unfair, what if they really deserve another chance ...

Here's a exercise that could be very enlightening for you:

Now that I'm no contact with my parents ...

I'm afraid that ...

I feel obligated to ...

I feel guilty because ...

Those answers will be very revealing, and I bet we here at Out of the FOG will share many of those feelings!

A quote by Wendy Maltz has always stayed with me: "A 'little' abuse is abuse."

You do not deserve to experience, tolerate, understand, forgive, accept, explain, invite, risk, or contemplate abuse. Not even a little.


So the real question is, "Why do you ask?"

[Escaped_Goat]

It's so normal to want to ask other people about when they went no contact because we so desperately want to be reasonable. We don't want to be spiteful. It's this all consuming feeling of wanting to do right that separates us so clearly from those who can never have those inner searchings.

That's what you concentrate on, the ways your internal mechanisms have been previously shut down and used against you. When you're tying yourself in knots you're dealing with the years and years of having your self protection system overridden and overwritten to make them always the most important things, never you, and if you do put your self first you're a dreadful dreadful person.

I quell the fog by addressing it directly  'I know you're worried about being the best person you can be,  wanting to avoid people who hurt you with no remorse is a skill to be prized. And you extend that right to everyone else including the person you're NC with, that you would want them to protect themselves from abuse. Give your self that beautiful right, to safety'.

[cik]

I remember it clearly. My sister called me to ask me to come home because something had happened with our parents. My narc dad had already had two affairs so I guessed what the issue was. I remember being on the way to the train station and thinking, very calm/matter of fact, "if they've decided to separate like adults then huge respect to both of them, but if he's had a THIRD affair then he can f- off because I'm done". He had had another affair so that was that. I never looked back, had guilt or doubts etc. but to be fair this was 11 years after the first affair so I was "done" on a level far deeper than most are when they say "I'm done".

[clockworkorange]

Hi clockwork,

If I may, are you questioning if your decision to go NC with your family was somehow "valid," "reasonable," or "good enough"?

Are you wondering if their behavior somehow "met a threshold," "crossed a line," or "rose to a standard" that would justify no contact?

Do you wonder if your family is "really that" abusive, dysfunctional, or hurtful?

I ask because those are FOG responses: what if it wasn't so bad, what if I'm being unfair, what if they really deserve another chance ...

Here's a exercise that could be very enlightening for you:

Now that I'm no contact with my parents ...

I'm afraid that ...

I feel obligated to ...

I feel guilty because ...

Those answers will be very revealing, and I bet we here at Out of the FOG will share many of those feelings!

A quote by Wendy Maltz has always stayed with me: "A 'little' abuse is abuse."

You do not deserve to experience, tolerate, understand, forgive, accept, explain, invite, risk, or contemplate abuse. Not even a little.


So the real question is, "Why do you ask?"

Leonor, oh wise one, you have read me like a book. Thank you for hitting the nail on the head!

Why do I ask? Because unfortunately I have allowed my mother to control my life. She has eliminated most of my friends and social circles through a smear campaign, damaged my reputation. She was my best friend, the person I turned to before I made all decisions and my main social life.

Now I'm pretty lonely frankly. It's scary going NC when your uNPDm has made sure you are dependent on her. Socially, emotionally, financially,

You know what's weird? I was the Golden Child for the first 48 years of my life.  I used to have a lot of friends. My father protected me because he raised me (mom was rarely around in my early years because of her career). After Dad died, my mom made me the Scapegoat. I started losing friends and people's respect. At first, I didn't realize it was her who was behind it all, I just didn't see that she was an uNPDm until the last few years. She is very covert about it. People began making snide comments toward me and excluding me from groups. Lies, gossiping, devaluing, gaslighting, name-calling, etc. How could she do that to her own daughter?

Anyway, thanks Leonora for setting me straight and making me feel better for second guessing myself. I appreciate it very much.

[moglow]

Clockwork, like many I've met around here, there's not just one event or moment - it's death by 1,000 cuts and that one straw that just somehow tips you over somehow catches you by surprise. Mine isn't by any means an engulfing over-involved mother, quite the contrary in fact. I simply don't exist for her and that's a hard realization to make even as an adult. I've been at this learning process for quite a few years now, where somewhere along the way I understood we just weren't going to have that magical mother daughter relationship. We pretended - or rather I did - for many years that it was okay until it just wasn't anymore. I took it all in as being ME and something I was lacking then stepped back and saw it's not me at all, it's everyone. She uses people, toys with people, minimizes and demeans and abuses and then wonders why we're not around, why the world doesn't revolve around her. Get "close" to her and given enough time, she will turn on you. I saw it countless time and it never registered what she was doing. Once it did I couldn't unsee it.

Like many, it ebbs and flows, she can and does show flashes of pleasant and charming even. But inevitably that other side popped right back up, when I was least prepared and when my defenses were down. The sheer consistency and yet inconsistency [intermittent reinforcement really] of her behavior and treatment of others ... it's debilitating. I pulled away, then backed off some more and am now [not no contact] but bare minimum no fuss with her. I severely limit my exposure and to her credit, she's no that interested anyway. Superficial is where she feels safe and I don't mind her being there. When she was in my head it was ugly - *I* was ugly because I believed her.

But no, there wasn't a moment, not for me.

[clockworkorange]

Moglow, I feel what you're saying and I am sorry for your experience. Death by 1,000 cuts. I love my mom. I feel so ambivalent. I go back and forth. This is family! I can't divorce my family! They're my blood! I must be not thinking straight.

But then I think, "Do I want to be treated like I'm a doormat for the rest of my life? Do I want to be treated like a second-class citizen for the rest of my life?"

The answer is no. I know I deserve to be treated like I am worthy of love.

We are all!

[clockworkorange]

It's so normal to want to ask other people about when they went no contact because we so desperately want to be reasonable. We don't want to be spiteful. It's this all consuming feeling of wanting to do right that separates us so clearly from those who can never have those inner searchings.

That's what you concentrate on, the ways your internal mechanisms have been previously shut down and used against you. When you're tying yourself in knots you're dealing with the years and years of having your self protection system overridden and overwritten to make them always the most important things, never you, and if you do put your self first you're a dreadful dreadful person.

I quell the fog by addressing it directly  'I know you're worried about being the best person you can be,  wanting to avoid people who hurt you with no remorse is a skill to be prized. And you extend that right to everyone else including the person you're NC with, that you would want them to protect themselves from abuse. Give your self that beautiful right, to safety'.

EscapedGoat, you are right. What makes it so ironic is we worry about our abusers and they are likely not worried about us! I sent an email to my uBPDm's siblings asking them to check on her and told them I was taking some space and getting therapy and asked them to check on her to make sure she was okay. One of her siblings responded, "Just saw her, she's doing well!" Kind of an odd response since I just told them her only daughter was estranging herself. Just shows how screwed up my FOO is. I was feeling heartbroken and assumed she was, too. Doesn't appear that was the case.

[escapingman]

clockwork, I have gone as low/no contact as I can with my mum and she doesn't even know or care. I have no idea what she is but I know she does not care about me. Do what's best for you, it's your life, live it.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

My heart goes out to you.

I did have "the moment" at a family wedding. I did not plan it. A situation arose, and it tipped me off the fence I was sitting on, and no question remained. It was however preceded by a lifetime of similar dynamics that never got better. I do not know of any set of criteria to measure against, or to let us know for sure when something has become "bad enough" for NC. I think when or if you reach that point, you just feel it in your heart. It is OK to still love your family. It is OK to question. I do not think it means you have made a wrong decision though.

I do think a good indicator is in realizing how you are feeling. You (we) do not go NC to teach any one a lesson, or to get them change. We do it for ourselves, to heal, recover and hopefully move forward with an increased awareness of serves us and the ability to pursue that with calm clarity and resolve. 

You can always try NC for a while, assess how you are feeling about it, and adjust if the current status does not feel quite right to you. I do not think it has to be a one and done decision forever. It is whatever works for you. I believe if you are feeling light, like a weight has lifted, or that there is more breathing space in your life it can be a good sign of being on a good path. I believe it is OK to do as needed to ensure your own wellbeing and happiness. This is your life, and you matter.

[Srcyu]

There was a build up to it.
A series of disrespect, denial, disregard, bias against, dislike, invalidation ...... there it was, invalidation.
That was the turning point - the 'moment'  The complete and utter realisation that the relationship was doomed. Nothing to stay there for and nothing to take me back.
Some people call it the final straw. The key word is 'final'

You will know in your heart if and when you reach yours.


milly

[Greenvalley]

I went NC 6 months after I started having treatment for depression. Through treatment, I realised that I had depression. I realised that it was caused by a lifetime of abuse and neglect I'd suffered. Prior to the treatment, I thought that the way I thought and felt was due to having some kind of personality fault, being bad at the core. This was what my uNPDm had always told me.

Before going totally NC, I'd had two instances where I cut off contact with her. First time was for 6 months. Then, another period years later for 10 months. I came back and things didn't improve. She would continue to mistreat me. After I went NC for the third time, it was for good. Three strikes and you're out kind of thing. I've been NC for 3 years now.

Pleased to say that my mental health and relationship problems have improved vastly. Never want to see the monster again. She has tried to reel me back in through text, email, family members, etc. I've flat out refused to enage in any kind of communication with anyone. Blocked all the phone numbers, email addresses, social media.

For me, everything became clearer the longer the NC has gone on. I've worked hard on mental health and relationship problems. It is like getting Out of the FOG. However, I've found that a lot of work was necessary too. I've had to put in a lot of work to improve my health and relationships skills. Once you feel the improvements, you never want to go back. You feel motivated to carry on and vindicated in your decision to go NC.

[sunshine702]

I filed for divorce and it was extremely painful and litigated.  When I called to tell them they did not seem to get it.   I knew right there that I could not deal with her Sh!t and the divorce and I changed my number and did not talk to her for two years. 

[olivegirl]

I dealt with the triangulation and smears and gaslighting for years.  Then a few years ago cancer struck and they were both very cruel and sadistic. 

Scared of my anger and how it may spark the return of my cancer, I started talking to them bc I was in such emotional pain. 

They aggressively announced they were permanently moving into MY house as it was my job to take care of them in their elder years.  The entitlement! 

I couldn't breathe and I just felt a strong sense of dread!  I went NC easily and have not wavered at all.  Zero guilt. 

[samia]

I had three different times in the past year that I chose NC.

With my sibling, I had been on the receiving end of her painful disapproval and disregard for years. During my final phone call with her, I could feel her complete detachment when she said she needed a break from me. I could feel she was playing a role she didn't want to play. I told her I didn't want our relationship to be based on FOG, and that was that. It was sad, but it felt as amicable as it could be.

For my uPDdad, I endured the most bizarre and reality-breaking behavior from him I'd ever experienced in my life. We had had a terrible fight. The months following that event my brain felt like it was in a hurricane. Eventually I apologized for the damage I had done in that fight, while also telling him there was still so much damage from his part that we needed boundaries. It went in one ear and out the other, and he was back to acting like he was good ol dad and I was tiny baby samia. I couldn't stand the whiplash and went NC.

With my uPDmom, I experienced the torment of her covert aggression every single time she came to visit. I've had a long history of conflict with her. Expectations, demands, gaslighting, invalidation, disapproval. Our last discussion, I discussed initiating the breakup, that I loved her and my other family members I've gone NC with, and stated I needed to let go to grow. Her decision was to invalidate my experience, deny her wrongdoing, and even insinuate I was being evil and cruel; she and my father were entitled to my child, after all. I told her to leave and went NC with her as well.

I know in all of my conflicts with them I did damage and hurt them, too. Our relationships were only about pain and playing pretend. It felt terrible to imagine letting it fester.

[mary_poppins]

When my grandmother died. They couldn't care less, made her death all about them.
Unfortunately, I broke NC 4 years later. Now LC. My life is pretty good atm but would improve dramatically if I reinstated NC.