Contact from sister re parents.

[doglady]

My estranged sister messaged today to say that she 'should inform' me...cue a lengthy and dramatic description of how enuPDF had nearly died nearly two weeks ago after having a choking incident at a cafe (he has had a few of these and doesn't seem able to take on speech path recommendations to assist himself, so there's that), and also that my uPDM was going into hospital to have heart and lung tests.
I didn't answer as I don't really know how to respond.

She then wanted to know what info I would like to hear from her about them in future: 'serious illness, dying, funerals? or none of that and just the wills?'

Just the wills? What the??

I was in the middle of dealing with a health issue with my daughter and was a bit flustered but stupidly I didn't think not to not reply to my sister, and I complied with my childhood training to provide an answer, although I was going against my gut. I said 'I'm not interested in wills.' Lame, I know. But it was the only true thing I could think to say that wasn't too inflammatory.

She then said she wanted to know because I 'would need to be notified about wills' in the event of their deaths.

Um, wut? Nope. I really don't. Anyway, surely solicitors do that? And as far as I know she is not executor so not sure why she's taking this on. The point is, I couldn't care less. I really don't want their money.

I quickly messaged, because I wanted to be done with it: 'Look I don't know. Just whatever you think you need to tell me I suppose.'
Stupid, I know.
Her answer: 'I'll need a few more parameters than that.'

By this point I was feeling pretty triggered but I said, 'yes, just the categories you've mentioned, I suppose, and I can then choose what to do with the info.' And I added, 'the "or the none of that and just the wills" comment was unnecessary.'

She doubled down and said she'd only meant it as a 'you'll need to be informed' and that I was wrong to infer she meant anything else. I guess what she's said is plausibly deniable. But I know her. She's quite good at the double edged comment that can then be denied.

Anyway I didn't engage any further. It wasn't going to go anywhere good. But the whole thing left me feeling quite crap and annoyed with myself, along with feeling guilt, helplessness, anger, and also that I'd been pressured and that I'd taken the bait. Psych 101 stuff. I should really know better now.

I wish I hadn't fallen for any of it. I will just try and move on I suppose. I know that whenever I have any interaction at all with my family I feel...well, just yuck. And stuff like this always reinforces that it's best to stay VVVVVLC.

I was told throughout my childhood, if I didn't immediately comply and 'be happy about it' that I was being selfish and uncaring. This was mainly because I refused to ride along with all the drama, and generally chose not to get involved.

And, yes, it does sound heartless, but I don't really have anything in the tank for this. Neither of my parents have ever taken care of their health and they're in their eighties now. They're lucky to still be here. And neither of them have ever put in the work to try discussing in an adult way how we might come to any sort of acknowledgment and understanding about the issues that have been rife in our dysfunctional family. So I don't feel that just because they are having serious health issues that I have to step up and do the emotional labour they refuse to do.

Not sure what I'm looking for in posting this, other than some hard headed advice about what I could've done better. Some honest feedback would be great. I can take it. Sorry it's long. Thanks for reading.

[LemonLime]

Doglady, you did great.  There's nothing you could have done better, because there is no winning with these types of people.  They don't allow a win-win. 
I have a similar sister.  I'm fortunate that my parent's are Nons, but they do allow sib to continue with her antics in spite of my parents understanding that she is dysfunctional. They will not set boundaries on her behavior. That leaves me and me alone to be the "weird one and bad guy".
Sigh.

[moglow]

Here's my limited take on it:  The "just the wills" could have been intended as a snark, as in "Oh I see, you just want to know what you get when they're gone." She could be poking based on her own frustrations in dealing with them. Or maybe she's goading for a response, any response regarding them, their needs, their situation etc. She may not want to be held to account later that she didn't tell you anything, and wants to be sure you're aware. OR there's always the possibility she's trying to open a firmly shut door between the two of you, wants your input and doesn't know how to ask for it. You probably know best which or what combination that might be.

Reality: If they have wills and you are listed as next of kin/the heirs, you will be provided copy of wills when they are filed with the court [that's how it works in my state, anyway], it's part of the process. ALL heirs are notified at that time. It's not necessarily something that needs to be discussed other than where are they so we can be sure they're filed when the time comes.

Maybe set your stock answer as: Thank you for letting me know. And possibly or not: Is there anything you need me to do? [Brief, bland, friendly-ish.]

[Sneezy]

doglady - You did great, you really did!  Your sister was obviously trying to stir the pot, and you kept the stirring to a minimum.

I am the person in my family who sends out the elderly parent update texts (because they all live near me and DH and I see them fairly regularly).  I try to reach a middle ground between sharing important information and not inundating my relatives with too many texts.  As time goes on and our elderly parents have gotten more settled, I have cut way back on texting.  If someone is really interested, they can always text me and request an update.  And if someone makes it clear that they're not interested (either by telling me they're not interested or removing themselves from a group text or never answering) then I stop texting that person.  That's just common manners.  There was no reason for your sister to text you in such a snarky way. 

[doglady]

Thanks all,

I really appreciate the feedback.

I was processing it all a bit more over the last day or so and then the penny dropped: one of the things I also felt uncomfortable with was my sister  assuming the role of intermediary. I'm pretty sure this would have been orchestrated by my uBPDm as it is a favourite tactic of hers: to, on one hand, share all sorts of trivial information in a histrionic way to all and sundry but, on the other hand, to withhold information about more serious issues, thereby attempting to invoke guilt in those who 'don't care enough' (ie. me) for not somehow knowing. This is a classic example.

So it seems sister has found herself in the role of go-between aka flying monkey. And I imagine she is none too happy about it.

I've decided therefore to send the following text when the next health report comes in from my sister. Or perhaps sooner, to avert that possibility?

'Hi [sisname]. I've now had some time to think about parameters. My preference is for you to take any pressure off yourself to inform me about parental health issues. I believe that if they wish me to know anything then they can communicate it to me themselves - other than in the event of them not being able to physically communicate, of course, then obviously you or another sibling can inform me.'

Does this seem like a reasonable boundary?

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi doglady,

Your proposed text has me wondering if you are prepared for different replies you might get after sending it. Will she leave you alone after this, or will the baiting start anew?

If your intention is to say "This is my decision, and I don't want to discuss it further" then that message is not included in your proposed text. If your intention is to remain open to a back and forth with her after sending this text, it is possible you will indeed get that.

It does look like a back and forth with her, will result in you playing into your sister's hand though. This all looks like an attempt to hoover you.

What she said to you when she contacted you, was very manipulative. She tried to convince you (and maybe herself) that you are responsible for telling her what to do next time. This is - as you said - the psychology 101 part of toxic family systems. The hoovering is always manipulation.

She worked to make it look like it is your decision (as to how she should be involved in the future). But that is her decision.

She tried to bait you into feeling responsible for her. That is probably why you feel icky whenever they contact you - these are attempts to hoover you.

I'm worried that you are hoping to take care of her, and that this is why you are explaining in your proposed text, your reason for your decision. Rather than simply saying "M and F can contact me themselves if they want to tell me about their health issues in the future" you included a statement about your preference regarding her. Maybe she will appreciate this concern you have for her, maybe she won't. Just be prepared for both?   

If she was getting Out of the FOG herself, her contact with you would not have been marked with snark and manipulation tactics. But it was. She was estranged from you for a reason.

Speaking from experience with hoover attempts I'll say this. I would bet that your concern for your sister has been used before, to draw you back in to more contact with them (i.e. hoover tactic).

Trees

[SaddleBagger]

From a practical standpoint it makes little sense to decline your inheritance. If you believe there may be something left to you by your parents but are averse to accepting it then consider receiving whatever it is and place it into a savings for your own child. There are no guarantees that you will always be as comfortable financially as you are now.
I would caution, however, that if you have a PD parent that you have zero expectations about what they may have left you.

[moglow]

On that bit about assuming the rule of intermediary: Your sister can always choose to relieve herself of flying monkey duties. It's not necessarily easy to face the gorgon head on, but neither is it easy or comfortable to continually be told "you need to tell your sister xyz ..." I'm guessing she doesn't want to hear "well did you TELL her or not? What did she say?? No, what did she actually say???" Cure for that is literally: Mother. If you want sis/doglady to know you need to tell her yourself. I'm not doing this anymore. OR if sis does get her kicks and giggles through that nonsense, it's still her stuff. Choices.

Don't be baited into fruitless back and forth, and understand that anything you say [no matter how innocuous] can and will be used against you if someone is looking for a mad. If parents are going through her to get to you, there's a reason. If you're not responding, there's a reason. You don't have to explain any of that to anyone - she knows already. If I responded at all in future, it'd be a short and sweet without any attempt at JADE [justify, argue, defend or explain]. If she feels she was tasked with relaying information and did so, message(s) was/were received. Period. She ALSO owes no one an explanation, and I'd be tempted to remind her of that.

Your questions were prefaced with her as your estranged sister. Consider how that came to be and act accordingly. This aint new news for you, ya know?

[doglady]

"M and F can contact me themselves if they want to tell me about their health issues in the future" 

Trees

This right here is exactly the right message.
Thanks, Trees. I was trying to be kind in recognising that she is under pressure from the matriarch. But as you point out so sensibly, there really is no point to me doing that. Better to keep it brief and not open to misinterpretation. Anything I say can and definitely has been used against me in the past.

[doglady]

From a practical standpoint it makes little sense to decline your inheritance. If you believe there may be something left to you by your parents but are averse to accepting it then consider receiving whatever it is and place it into a savings for your own child. There are no guarantees that you will always be as comfortable financially as you are now.
I would caution, however, that if you have a PD parent that you have zero expectations about what they may have left you.

Hi Saddlebagger, thanks for your thoughts, and it confirms my plan, which has always been exactly as you propose: to expect nothing (and I couldn't give a rat's anyway) but if there is anything, then I would automatically pass it on to my two children.

The main issue for me was that my sister was, in my opinion, trying to imply that I would be only in it for the money. She tried to peddle back on her snark when I challenged her. She replied that she'd only mentioned wills because I'd 'need to be notified.' My understanding is that she would not need to be involved in notifying me of wills anyway as this is the solicitor's job.

I won't be entering into any further correspondence with her other than Trees' excellent suggestion above.

[moglow]

Yeah that backpedal is pretty convenient until it's not. Mother used to do that - challenge her on anything she said and you got one of two responses [depending on her audience at the time]: Feigned horror/dismay that you'd ever think she'd do that to you OR full on rage that you had the audacity to call her on it at all. Either/or, no middle ground for her. Never you mind the realities, she had her own super special reality that apparently only applied to her/her situation.

[LemonLime]

Bill Eddy talks about the BIFF response, which I have found SO helpful with PD's:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/5-types-people-who-can-ruin-your-life/201809/biff-4-ways-respond-hostile-comments

Hopefully that helps

[doglady]

On that bit about assuming the rule of intermediary: Your sister can always choose to relieve herself of flying monkey duties. It's not necessarily easy to face the gorgon head on, but neither is it easy or comfortable to continually be told "you need to tell your sister xyz ..." I'm guessing she doesn't want to hear "well did you TELL her or not? What did she say?? No, what did she actually say???" Cure for that is literally: Mother. If you want sis/doglady to know you need to tell her yourself. I'm not doing this anymore. OR if sis does get her kicks and giggles through that nonsense, it's still her stuff. Choices.

Don't be baited into fruitless back and forth, and understand that anything you say [no matter how innocuous] can and will be used against you if someone is looking for a mad. If parents are going through her to get to you, there's a reason. If you're not responding, there's a reason. You don't have to explain any of that to anyone - she knows already. If I responded at all in future, it'd be a short and sweet without any attempt at JADE [justify, argue, defend or explain]. If she feels she was tasked with relaying information and did so, message(s) was/were received. Period. She ALSO owes no one an explanation, and I'd be tempted to remind her of that.

Your questions were prefaced with her as your estranged sister. Consider how that came to be and act accordingly. This aint new news for you, ya know?

Thanks again Moglow for your words of wisdom. And yes, my sister does have choices, despite being completely enmeshed with my parents.

And I will certainly no longer allow my myself to be baited into back and forth. On the day in question I allowed myself to be caught on the hop when what I should have done was not feel compelled to reply immediately - I always seem to do that and it's usually to my detriment. Lesson learned (again!!).

And you are absolutely correct in saying that anything I say will be used against me, as that's the way it usually plays out in my FOO. I will use Trees' example if/when I respond  further.

And yes, there is a reason we are estranged: she did not support me at all when my parents blamed me and raged that I 'caused all the family problems' (because I am the one who confronted them about their hoarding and their toxic favouritism and scapegoating games with selected offspring. Yeah, who knew that wouldn't go well? Oh well, I'm still very glad I said it all. This sister had agreed with everything I said, encouraged me to say it and then...tumbleweeds.) God, I do not miss interacting with these people. I will act accordingly.

[doglady]

Yeah that backpedal is pretty convenient until it's not. Mother used to do that - challenge her on anything she said and you got one of two responses [depending on her audience at the time]: Feigned horror/dismay that you'd ever think she'd do that to you OR full on rage that you had the audacity to call her on it at all. Either/or, no middle ground for her. Never you mind the realities, she had her own super special reality that apparently only applied to her/her situation.

Moglow, I shudder to think that there are two of these matriarchs out there. This is uncannily similar to what my own uBPDm does - and I think my sister is learning her ways. 

[doglady]

Bill Eddy talks about the BIFF response, which I have found SO helpful with PD's:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/5-types-people-who-can-ruin-your-life/201809/biff-4-ways-respond-hostile-comments

Hopefully that helps

Hi LemonLime. Yes, a great reminder to use BIFF. Thanks.